--- Log opened Thu May 06 00:00:56 2010
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00:05 < uriel> yay!
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00:16 < chaos95> Hi folks, went to Andrew Gerrand's presentation on Go at
RMIT last night and it piqued my interest; next step: convince my boss that Go is
a decent option for re-implementing our lumbering, legacy-laden flagship product
00:16 < chaos95> wish me luck :P
00:16 < Tonnerre> RMIT, wasn't that in Melbourne?
00:16 < chaos95> yep
00:17 < Tonnerre> Awesome!  Greetings over there, I'm hoping to be able to
drop by again in November
00:17 < Tonnerre> And I do wish you luck
00:17 < chaos95> Cheers :)
00:20 < kmeyer> chaos95: do you know if that was recorded at all?
00:21 < chaos95> kmeyer: there was a camera present, as well as a
dictaphone.  I'm assuming they were recording on GTUG Melbourne's behalf
00:23 < kmeyer> I'll do some googling I guess :)
00:27 < chaos95> I'm assuming it wouldn't be up yet, but you might have more
luck later today
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00:41 < kmeyer> yeah, I don't see it yet
00:41 < kmeyer> thanks :)
00:44 < uriel> chaos95: oh, awesome, I had asked Andrew if it was going to
be recorded but he thought it wouldn't, cool to see it was recorded in the end!
00:46 <+iant> I think he is doing the same presentation again in a couple of
weeks at Google I/O, and that one at least should be recorded
00:48 < kmeyer> heh, no worries
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01:49 < exch> anyone have ideas why this behaves the way it does?
http://www.gopaste.net/?id=1567
01:49 < exch> specifically, repl2() is consistently a lot slower than
repl1()
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01:52 < exch> results are always around 15000ns vs 22000ns on my machine
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02:12 < jessta> exch: more allocations
02:13 < exch> How is that?
02:13 < jessta> haystack = haystack[0:p] + replacement +
haystack[p+len(needle):]
02:14 < exch> 'ret += haystack[0:p] + replacement' is faster than 'ret +=
haystack[0:p]; ret += replacement' So if that's the case, than 'haystack =
haystack[0:p] + replacement + haystack[p+len(needle):]' should be even faster
02:15 < exch> unless there is a problem with assigning all that to haystack
instead of 'ret'
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02:17 < jessta> either way, you shouldn't use strings like that
02:17 < jessta> get yourself a bytes.Buffer
02:18 < jessta> doing ret += haystack[0:p] requires ret to be copied and
reallocated
02:19 < jessta> and the previous ret to be gc'ed
02:19 < exch> hope it's faster than this stuff, cos i'm fresh out of ideas
to make it faster.
02:19 * exch tests
02:20 < jessta> exch: strings are immutatable in Go
02:20 < exch> that does explain why it's so terribly slow
02:22 < jessta> and with the +, I think you're allocating and copying the
slice(haystack[0:p]) to a string and then copying that again to the ret string
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02:24 < chaos95> have you tried a split and join?
02:25 < exch> not yet
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02:42 < chaos95> is there any way to get the build process to bypass the
http tests?
02:43 < chaos95> they don't pay any attention to my http_proxy environment
variable, and consequently time out on any http requests outside this network
02:43 < chaos95> (which is, you know, all of them :D)
02:45 < jessta> chaos95: you can build without running the tests
02:46 < jessta> or kill the process when it gets to the tests
02:46 < chaos95> oh it installs first?
02:46 < chaos95> nifty
02:48 < exch> -.- looks like this is actually the fastest approach.
http://www.gopaste.net/?id=1568
02:48 < exch> no need for a buffer
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02:48 < exch> it's still a pretty costly operation
02:48 < jessta> chaos95: I think they are going to remove the requirement
for network connectivity to test the http soon
02:49 < chaos95> jessta: yeah I saw some tickets related to it; here's
hoping.
02:50 < chaos95> 13000 ns
02:50 < chaos95> 20000 ns
02:50 < chaos95> 7000 ns
02:51 < chaos95> quite a bit faster, huh exch?
02:51 < exch> i'm getting about 4k improvement
02:54 < exch> make that 10k
02:54 < exch> 16000 ns
02:54 < exch> 21000 ns
02:54 < exch> 6000 ns
02:55 < exch> more than 50% speed increase.  I'll settle for that
02:59 < exch> the bh:= bit can be omitted to really
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02:59 < exch> if you inline the entire thing it'll shave off another 1k
03:00 < exch> string(bytes.Join(bytes.Split([]byte(haystack),
[]byte(needle), 0), []byte(replacement))) <- winner
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03:03 < jessta> the compiler should eventually be able to do that for you
03:07 < chaos95> the gcc backend probably already does
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06:08 < exch> I'm modifying a fair amount of stuff to use byte arrays
instead of strings and so far the speed increase is rather mind boggling O.o
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06:10 < KirkMcDonald> Are these arrays being mutated?
06:10 < exch> processing of a fair chunk of script code goes from about 1.2
ms to 0.047ms
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06:10 < chaos95> KirkMcDonald: oh hey, I know you!  :P
06:10 < exch> I'm using the bytes package.  Combination of buffers and
join/split calls
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06:11 < KirkMcDonald> chaos95: What the what?
06:12 < chaos95> you're in #python also
06:12 < KirkMcDonald> Oh, yes.
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06:33 < jessta> exch: yeah, strings are for slicing not for mutating
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08:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bWBpn by [Nigel Tao] in
go/src/pkg/exp/draw/x11/ -- Make exp/draw/x11 respect $XAUTHORITY.
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09:19 < jessta> respect my $XAUTHORITY!
09:20 < Tonnerre> Noooooo!
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09:22 < rhino9> c/lear
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10:34 < manveru> is there some way to let go spit out all errors it
encountners instead of telling me "too many errors"
10:34 < manveru> *encounters
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10:57 < manveru> iant: is there any reason why 'func (x *X) Y() {}' and
'func (x X) Y() {}' aren't distinct methods?
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11:00 < manveru> iant: basically, i cannot do something like 'func (x X) Y()
{ Z(x) }' without an ugly type switch just to find out whether you're a pointer or
not (given that Z takes either or, not an interface)
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11:10 < wrtp> manveru: in that example, X is not a pointer
11:10 < wrtp> i don't understand what you mean by needing to use a type
switch
11:10 < manveru> wrtp: you can call Y on *X if Y is defined for X
11:11 < manveru> you cannot call Y on X if Y is defined for *X
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11:11 < wrtp> sure, but the method just gets a copy of X - it can't tell if
it was called on the pointer
11:11 < manveru> hmm
11:11 < manveru> good point :)
11:11 < wrtp> given a pointer, you can always dereference it to get a value;
given a value you can't always find out where it's stored
11:12 < manveru> yeah, that makes sense
11:12 < manveru> argh, i really want methods on interfaces :(
11:13 < wrtp> there's the confusing (but useful!) special case where you can
call pointer methods on a value type if the object is addressable; but that
doesn't apply to interfaces.
11:13 < chressie> wrtp: with '&' you can find out where it is stored, but i
think it's impossible to find out where it was copied from
11:13 < wrtp> why?
11:13 < wrtp> chressie: you can't use '&' on (for instance) a value returned
from a function
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11:14 < wrtp> manveru: why do you want methods on interfaces?
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11:14 < manveru> wrtp: so i can build on them easier
11:15 < wrtp> manveru: ?
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11:15 < manveru> heh
11:15 < wrtp> you can easily define functions that take interfaces as
arguments.
11:15 < manveru> yes, i know
11:15 < wrtp> for instance: io.ReadAtLeast
11:15 < manveru> but it would be really nice to call them on the interface
11:16 < wrtp> i mean ReadAtMost
11:16 < wrtp> it would be really confusing - like mixing virtual and
non-virtual methods
11:16 < wrtp> go doesn't do that
11:16 < manveru> virtual and what?
11:16 < manveru> how is it confusing?
11:17 < wrtp> anyway, you can put methods on interfaces
11:17 < wrtp> just wrap the interface in a struct
11:17 < manveru> structs can embed interfaces?
11:17 < wrtp> yes
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11:18 < wrtp> e.g.  type T struct {io.Reader}
11:18 < wrtp> then you can define methods on T
11:18 < manveru> oh my
11:18 < wrtp> but T inherits all the methods in Reader
11:18 < chressie> wrtp: sure (i was still in the receiver context)
11:18 < manveru> wrtp: thanks a lot
11:18 < wrtp> you can include as many interfaces as you want that way too...
11:19 < manveru> yeah
11:19 < wrtp> manveru: does that scratch your itch?
11:19 < manveru> i will try it
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11:20 < manveru> but sounds pretty good :)
11:20 < manveru> do you mind another silly question?
11:20 < wrtp> nope
11:20 < wrtp> go ahead
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11:21 < manveru> if i have something like 'type Vect struct { x, y int };
type Vector interface { X() int; Y() int }'
11:21 < manveru> and i'd really like to make x and y public
11:21 < wrtp> yeah
11:21 < manveru> but then they will collide with the naming
11:22 < wrtp> yeah, you'd have to choose different names
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11:22 < manveru> that's a pity :|
11:22 < wrtp> otherwise the compiler wouldn't know whether you wanted the
field or the method
11:22 < manveru> the compiler knows...
11:23 < manveru> it always tells me 'you try to use a field as a method' and
the other way round
11:23 < manveru> well, something along the lines, i'd have to dig up the
real message
11:24 < wrtp> if you've named a field X and a method X also, and i say: v :=
Vect{1,2}.X
11:24 < wrtp> what is the type of v ?
11:24 < wrtp> is it a function or an integer?
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11:25 < manveru> hmh
11:25 < manveru> right, the issue of optional parenthesis
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11:25 < wrtp> not really
11:26 < manveru> sorry, i'm coming from ruby
11:26 < manveru> we would do Vect{1,2}.method('X') or the like to get the
method
11:26 < wrtp> i see
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11:27 < wrtp> so methods in ruby are in a different namespace to fields ?
11:27 < manveru> no
11:27 < manveru> ruby doesn't have fields in that sense, only methods, and
you call them
11:27 < wrtp> so you'd have the same issue in ruby too, no?
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11:28 < wrtp> so how would you store the x and y values for a point in ruby?
11:28 < manveru> you'd define two methods called 'x=' and 'y='
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11:28 < manveru> and you can use them like 'point.x = 123'
11:29 < wrtp> and using them?
11:29 < wrtp> i mean referring to them
11:29 < manveru> point.method('x=')
11:29 < wrtp> what if i do point.x + point.y
11:29 < wrtp> ?
11:30 < manveru> then that calls the x and y methods
11:30 < manveru> with inlining there wouldn't be a performance difference
11:30 < wrtp> (if it knows statically the class it's calling)
11:30 < manveru> yeah, as in 95% of the cases?  :)
11:31 < wrtp> so point.x is the same as point.x() ?
11:31 < manveru> exactly
11:31 < manveru> the parenthesis are optional
11:31 < wrtp> is that true of local variables too?
11:31 < manveru> no
11:32 < manveru> local variables is where it gets messy :)
11:32 < wrtp> i se
11:32 < wrtp> e
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11:32 < manveru> so you can say 'x = point.x; return x' and it will return
point.x
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11:33 < manveru> but if you say 'return x', it will try to call the method x
on self
11:33 < manveru> go doesn't really have an implicit receiver, so that's
different
11:33 < wrtp> oh jeez, i hate implicit self referencing
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11:34 < wrtp> anyway, i see where you're coming from, but you just need to
know that fields and methods live in the same namespace and are different things
11:35 < manveru> yeah, i understand
11:35 < wrtp> but...
11:36 < wrtp> you can always define methods at a higher level, and there's
no clash
11:36 < manveru> yes
11:36 < manveru> that's something i still have to get used to
11:37 < manveru> ruby really sucks at namespacing
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11:37 < wrtp> so if you wanted to export your Vect as a Vector interface,
you could define a new type just for the purpose.  type VVect struct {v Vect};
func (vv VVect) X() int {return vv.v.X}
11:38 < wrtp> and make it more straightforward to use: func (v Vect)
Vector() Vector {return VVect{v}}
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11:39 < wrtp> go does namespacing really well.  it makes for much less
cluttered names
11:40 < manveru> heh
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11:40 < manveru> i've been doing go for the past 3 weeks or so almost
nonstop
11:40 < manveru> hopefully i'll get better soon...
11:41 < wrtp> what've you been doing with it?
11:41 < jessta> go is the C I always wanted
11:41 < manveru> wrote a couple of little games
11:41 < jessta> (and kept trying to make with macros)
11:42 < wrtp> using which gui interface?
11:42 < manveru> sdl
11:42 < manveru> i wrote to the ML, the game of life and pong are the ones
that are presentable
11:43 < wrtp> ah, monsieur fellinger :-)
11:43 < manveru> the others are experiments or work in progress...  it's
pretty amazing how much faster go is than ruby
11:43 < manveru> yeah, that's me
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11:44 < wrtp> have you got a link to sdl?
11:44 < wrtp> (the go package)
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11:44 < manveru> http://github.com/banthar/Go-SDL
11:45 < manveru> for the past week or so i've been trying to translate the
chipmunk physics engine from C to Go, but it teaches me more about C than Go...
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11:47 * wrtp is trying to goinstall go-sdl
11:48 < manveru> that doesn't work
11:48 < manveru> it doesn't have an install task...  goinstall will give you
some weird error about 'no files' or something
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11:49 < manveru> i've tried to get int touch with banthar, but so far no
reaction
11:49 < wrtp> no it doesn't.  i don't think there's a branch tagged
"release", which goinstall seems to want
11:49 < manveru> *in
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11:50 < manveru> the goinstall doc says it falls back to HEAD if no release
branch is found
11:51 < manveru> but it needs a 'make install' task...  Go-SDL does install
on 'make' already
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11:52 < manveru> well, at least that's my reasoning, i really don't know
what's the issue since the error message is so confusing
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11:53 < wrtp> thing is, it imported the source code just fine
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11:57 < manveru> yeah...
11:57 < manveru> i wish it had a verbose switch
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12:21 < manveru> mitsuhiko: aloha :)
12:21 < mitsuhiko> hey manveru
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12:23 < wrtp> manveru: it does have a verbose switch
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12:23 < wrtp> it just doesn't show you much :-)
12:24 < wrtp> i just got go-sdl compiled under mac os...  and it fails
("libcgo: could not obtain pthread_keys")
12:24 < wrtp> oh well
12:24 < manveru> hm, yeah, other people reported problems with osx as well
12:25 < wrtp> there was an initial problem with the way it used pkg_config
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12:25 < wrtp> but even once compiled it doesn't work
12:25 < wrtp> hmm
12:25 < wrtp> pity
12:26 < wrtp> i'd like to have a go at using go to do some graphical stuff
12:26 < manveru> yeah...
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12:26 < manveru> i'm thinking about how to implement world of sand in go/sdl
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12:27 < wrtp> what's world of sand?
12:29 < manveru> something like this: http://dan-ball.jp/en/javagame/dust/
12:30 < manveru> you put lots of differnet element particles into a world
and they interact
12:30 < manveru> not really realistic physics, but quite fun
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12:32 < wrtp> cool
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12:33 < manveru> the category is best known as 'falling sand game', i think
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12:33 < wrtp> hmm, the reason for sdl failing under os x is in the following
nasty code: src/libcgo/darwin_386.c
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13:18 * wrtp got further getting sdl working, but it still crashes :-(
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14:11 < damjan> Anyone knows of an equivalent Go idiom for Pythons
dict.setdefault()
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14:36 < wrtp> damjan: no, you'd have to write it out (or write a little
function to do it).  e.g.  func setdefault(m map[string] *foo, s string, default
*foo) *foo {if v, ok := m[s]; ok { return v } else { m[s] = default; return
default }}
14:36 < damjan> wrtp: thanks
14:38 < damjan> wrtp: I have to replace foo with my exact type right?
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14:44 < wrtp> damjan: yeah, and string with your key type
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16:09 < JoLeClodo> with a function which return void * and the size into
parameters, it's possible to have a simple string with cgo ?
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16:14 < JoLeClodo> no ?
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16:20 < exch> you want to convert a string from c to go?
16:20 < exch> or vice-versa?
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16:21 < JoLeClodo> found :
http://github.com/eden/mysqlgo/blob/master/mysql/bound_data.go , function
bytesForUnsafePointer
16:22 < exch> cgo has built-in functions for string conversions
16:23 < exch> 'foo := C.GoString(myCstring)' and 'bar :=
C.CString(myGoString)'
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16:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bX7wt by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gc/ -- gc:
distinguish array, slice literal in error messages
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17:00 < kimelto> morning!
17:00 < Ideal> evening!
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17:21 < exch> Here's a licensing question: What kind of rules apply when you
use Go as an interpreted scripting language?  Or even a subset of it?
17:22 < exch> Apart from the go scanner/tokenizer most of the work will have
to be written manually, but it's still the same language being used.
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17:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bXdlh by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/gob/ -- gob:
add test for indirect maps, slices, arrays.
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18:30 <+iant> exch: all the Go code is open source under a BSD-style license
18:31 <+iant> You can see the exact terms in the LICENSE file at the top
level of the source code
18:31 < exch> Yea i've read it.  Not sure if that also applied to the
language itself, or just the stuff writtin in it
18:31 < exch> *written
18:32 < exch> i'm not that good with lawyer talk ;)
18:32 <+iant> it applies to the all the source code that is part of the Go
repository
18:32 <+iant> there are no restrictions on code that you write in Go
18:32 < exch> ok.  That includes the parser then
18:32 <+iant> that is yours
18:32 <+iant> yes
18:32 < exch> cool :)
18:32 < exch> thanks
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18:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bXhMt by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/runtime/ --
runtime.GOMAXPROCS: hack it to have it return the old value.
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20:40 < fenicks> hello
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20:48 < itrekkie> Hi everyone, pardon the newbie question concerning reading
from argv: is using the "flag" package appropriate?
20:48 < itrekkie> I'm finding it harder to google for go than I'm used to
20:48 <+iant> The flag package is appropriate for handling command line
options, sure
20:48 <+iant> or you can just use os.Argv
20:50 < itrekkie> I don't need any processing, just the strings, so the
latter looks better
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20:51 < itrekkie> Found it in the docs, thanks!
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--- Log closed Fri May 07 00:00:55 2010