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Desu~] 13:51 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:53 -!- marsu [~marsu@ANancy-154-1-40-132.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:55 -!- perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has joined #go-nuts 13:59 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:08 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has joined #go-nuts 14:10 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has quit [Client Quit] 14:10 -!- nighty^ [~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #go-nuts 14:12 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 14:13 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has joined #go-nuts 14:15 -!- nighty^ [~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15 -!- amliao [~chatzilla@222.73.189.45] has joined #go-nuts 14:21 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-11-242-47.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 14:22 -!- taruti_ [taruti@aoi.yi.org] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:22 -!- taruti [taruti@aoi.yi.org] has joined #go-nuts 14:31 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 14:33 -!- Ginto8_ [~Ginto8@pool-72-82-235-34.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:34 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 14:36 -!- rv2733 [~rv2733@c-98-242-168-49.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:40 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@f055212158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:41 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055109220.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:53 -!- HollyRain [~HollyRain@87.223.127.233] has joined #go-nuts 14:53 -!- KinOfCain [~KinOfCain@rrcs-64-183-61-2.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:55 < HollyRain> when you have a struct with more than 10 fields, is better make them public than to add functions to get/set those fields? 14:55 < Ginto8_> HollyRain, why would you need methods to get/set? 14:55 < Ginto8_> you're thinking too much with OOP 15:01 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has joined #go-nuts 15:03 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.14] has joined #go-nuts 15:06 < jessta> HollyRain: that depends on what the struct is for 15:07 < jessta> get/set methods are usually a sign of a bad design 15:07 < HollyRain> in java is usually used 15:07 < jessta> java is usually a sign of a bad design 15:08 < Ginto8_> HollyRain, Java is overly OOP 15:08 < Ginto8_> Go is only OOP in the weakest of sense 15:08 < jessta> you're better off making methods that set or get the fields for a specific reason 15:08 < Ginto8_> it draws mostly from C 15:09 < Ginto8_> Unless you need something special to happen when you change those fields, don't have get/set methods 15:09 < HollyRain> I need them to encode data to json, at the end I'm making public fields 15:13 < Ginto8_> how about you have it satisfy io.Writer 15:13 < Ginto8_> and have a Write() function to encode the data 15:13 -!- perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@f055212158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #go-nuts [] 15:15 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055212158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:16 < HollyRain> Ginto8_: it isn't generic because it's possible that I've to make different changes in each struct 15:17 < HollyRain> a common change that I've to do is i.e. if I do public fields (like 'Name'), I need it in lower case 'name' for Json 15:18 < HollyRain> the solution more simple is to have another struct with the names to use for the Json output 15:24 < jessta> HollyRain: I think you can use labels for that 15:28 -!- gregc [~gregc@c-68-42-97-89.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:29 < Soultaker> wouldn't the analogous thing to JSON objects be Go maps? 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Of the packages I've seen they've consisted of just one go file. 17:28 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:29 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:29 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:30 -!- smw [~smw@pool-96-232-88-231.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:30 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:30 -!- nighty^ [~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:30 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:31 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:33 -!- nighty^ [~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #go-nuts 17:37 -!- Gracenotes [~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38 -!- KinOfCain [~KinOfCain@rrcs-64-183-61-2.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:49 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has left #go-nuts [] 17:59 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:05 -!- mattikus [~mattikus@99.23.135.27] has joined #go-nuts 18:05 < Ginto8_> drhodes, yes but you don't necessarily want to have a large number of packages accessing unsafe C 18:11 < Ginto8_> s/packages/files 18:20 < drhodes> ok Ginto8_, thanks. I'll keep that in mind. 18:20 < Ginto8_> I have at least 3 files in my lib that use cgo 18:21 < Ginto8_> but beyond that I intend to use the abstraction functions from those files to access all the C stuff 18:22 < drhodes> did you have to modify the Makefile at all for cgo work correctly? 18:22 < Ginto8_> yeah 18:22 < Ginto8_> CGOFILES=\ 18:22 < Ginto8_> ... 18:22 < Ginto8_> then 18:22 < Ginto8_> uhh... 18:22 < Ginto8_> CGO_LDFLAGS= 18:23 < Ginto8_> if you need any special libs 18:23 < drhodes> Well, I've got that much, but I'm wondering if cgo needs a special flag for packages with multiple files 18:23 < Ginto8_> nope 18:24 < Ginto8_> I think cgo acts a lot like normal gc 18:24 < Ginto8_> all the files from the same package are compiled at once 18:24 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:24 < Ginto8_> I think you can even have cgo files and gc files in the same package as well 18:24 < Ginto8_> that's what I did 18:25 < drhodes> Ok, very good, thanks! 18:25 < Ginto8> np glad I could help 18:25 -!- General13372 [~support@71-84-50-230.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:28 -!- tsykoduk [~tsykoduk@2001:470:1f04:671:20d:93ff:fe77:1dc4] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:28 -!- General1337 [~support@71-84-50-230.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30 -!- tsykoduk [~tsykoduk@2001:470:1f04:671:20d:93ff:fe77:1dc4] has joined #go-nuts 18:31 -!- rv2733 [~rv2733@c-98-242-168-49.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:34 -!- HollyRain [~HollyRain@87.223.127.233] has quit [Quit: HollyRain] 18:34 -!- mattikus [~mattikus@99.23.135.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45 -!- LeNsTR|away [~lenstr@unaffiliated/lenstr] has quit [Quit: LeNsTR|away] 18:46 -!- LeNsTR [~lenstr@unaffiliated/lenstr] has joined #go-nuts 18:47 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 18:48 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@f052062136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leave the magic to Houdini] 18:53 -!- Eko [~eko@DHCP-159-138.caltech.edu] has joined #go-nuts 18:57 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.14] has joined #go-nuts 19:14 -!- zcram [~zcram@133.193.159.217.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #go-nuts 19:16 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.94.195] has joined #go-nuts 19:18 -!- LeNsTR [~lenstr@unaffiliated/lenstr] has quit [Quit: LeNsTR] 19:22 -!- LeNsTR [~lenstr@unaffiliated/lenstr] has joined #go-nuts 19:22 -!- perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25 -!- LeNsTR [~lenstr@unaffiliated/lenstr] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31 -!- LeNsTR [~lenstr@unaffiliated/lenstr] has joined #go-nuts 19:35 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.37.40.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.37.40.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 19:49 -!- zcram [~zcram@133.193.159.217.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49 -!- zcram [~zcram@133.193.159.217.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #go-nuts 19:50 -!- Ideal [~Ideal@80.249.90.250] has joined #go-nuts 19:52 < Ideal> Hi, how to replace one substring with another in string ? 19:54 < Ideal> there is functions for that in regexp package, but is it possible to do that without them ? 19:54 < Ideal> there are* 19:55 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 19:59 < Ideal> aha, found mailing list posts about that.. 20:00 < exch> Ideal: result := string(bytes.Join(bytes.Split([]byte(haystack), []byte(needle), 0), []byte(replacement))) 20:01 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:03 < vrtical> beautiful code :-) 20:03 < Ginto8> vrtical, it's the price you pay for a strong static typing system 20:04 < exch> it's fast and it works :) 20:04 < Ideal> exch: thanks.. maybe i bench it against versions here http://bit.ly/aMUjPZ, pretty interesting to see the results 20:05 < exch> I tried the for {} loop thing myself first. this is definitely faster 20:05 * Ideal is benchmarking 20:05 < Soultaker> it probably depends a lot on the choice of input. 20:05 < Ginto8> exch, yeah copy() is probably used, which most likely uses some of the same optimizations that C's memcpy() uses 20:05 < exch> suppose that's true 20:06 < Soultaker> seems like Go could use a lot of improvement in the string processing department. there isn't even a fast string search algorithm implemented. 20:07 < Soultaker> by the way, did I read correctly that range over a string yields unicode code points, not bytes? that's pretty nifty. 20:08 < Ginto8> it's how it should be 20:08 < Ginto8> it's encoded in utf8 so runes can be 1-4 bytes in size, so it's impractical to go one byte at a time 20:08 < Soultaker> probably so, but most Unicode support in Go seems to boil down to "we have a byte strings; just encode everything UTF-8" ;-) 20:09 < Soultaker> string indexing and length operations still operate on bytes, not characters. 20:09 < Soultaker> - a 20:09 < Ginto8> yes but that is there for a reason 20:09 < Ginto8> strings are treated as immutable []byte's 20:10 < Soultaker> yea I know, which is why I thought Go's claimed unicode support was a bit of a scam =) 20:10 < Ginto8> is len() gave the length of the string in characters, and indexing accessed a single character, it would completely mess up the []byte compatibility 20:10 < Ginto8> and []byte's are used as dynamic strings 20:10 < Soultaker> well sure. then you'd need a separate data type for (text!) strings 20:13 < Ideal> exch: the latest version in that thread in ml a bit faster, 0m1.908s vs 0m1.619s on 1M iters 20:14 < Ideal> exch: but second version there slower.. still, thank you :) 20:16 < Ideal> is it a good idea would be to submit an issue to go's issue tracker so such a function added to string package ? 20:17 < Ideal> i mean string replace 20:18 < exch> It's probably been mentioned a few times before. Among other missing functions. Not sure what the reasoning was for leaving them out, but there was one back then. You could always try again of course 20:18 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.14] has joined #go-nuts 20:20 < Ideal> hm, maybe it was mentioned, but seems like i don't see it in issue tracker 20:21 < Ideal> okay, lets try 20:25 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:30 < Ideal> okay here it is for the record http://bit.ly/91L7OE 20:33 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.37.40.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:36 -!- Weems [~frodo@unaffiliated/weems] has joined #go-nuts 20:49 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.107.139.115] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:50 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.94.195] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 20:59 -!- SRabbelier [~SRabbelie@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05 -!- LeNsTR [~lenstr@unaffiliated/lenstr] has quit [Quit: LeNsTR] 21:12 -!- bortzmeyer [~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:696a:57d4:18f1:70a] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:17 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has joined #go-nuts 21:24 -!- jer [~jtregunna@unaffiliated/jer] has joined #go-nuts 21:25 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@c-24-6-37-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:27 -!- SRabbelier [~SRabbelie@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #go-nuts 21:28 -!- Ideal [~Ideal@80.249.90.250] has quit [Quit: Ideal] 21:36 -!- SRabbelier [~SRabbelie@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:44 -!- SRabbelier [~SRabbelie@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #go-nuts 21:45 -!- smw_ [~smw@pool-96-232-88-231.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:57 -!- ShadowIce [pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:02 -!- Shyde [~shyde@HSI-KBW-078-043-070-132.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Shyde] 22:02 -!- zcram [~zcram@133.193.159.217.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.14] has joined #go-nuts 22:21 < vrtical> Soultaker: to be fair, some of us happen to feel that utf-8 everywhere is *the* solution to character encoding :-) 22:21 < vrtical> Out of interest, does Go have libraries yet for dealing with different encodings? 22:23 -!- Adys_ [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 22:25 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27 < Namegduf> Indexing on character vs byte isn't so much a question of "Unicode support" as "Do you really want string indexing to be O(n)" 22:28 < Soultaker> err, ever heard of Java or Python? 22:28 < Namegduf> I'm familiar with both. Not sure what your point is. 22:29 < Soultaker> that they allow constant time string indexing ;) 22:29 < Namegduf> Then they don't store strings as UTF-8 22:29 < Soultaker> no, exactly. 22:29 < Namegduf> I'm not sure what your point is 22:29 < Soultaker> I was wondering that about you tbh =) 22:30 < Namegduf> My point is that your complaint that a lack of character indexing somehow means it lacks proper Unicode support 22:30 < Namegduf> Is nonsensical, stupid, and conflictory with the nature of the declared support 22:31 < Namegduf> As it would conflict with the part where they state UTF-8 is used, or sane speed 22:31 < Soultaker> depends on what you mean by "support" but by that logic I haven't used a programming language in my life without Unicode support, because all support storing UTF-8 encoded data in byte arrays. 22:32 < Namegduf> I would assume support would mean the string operation functions operate as described on Unicode. 22:32 < Namegduf> Thus "supporting" Unicode. 22:32 < Soultaker> I guess it depends on what you expect. 22:33 < Soultaker> I expected roughly the same operations on Unicode strings that I used on ASCII strings for decades. 22:33 < Soultaker> e.g. strlen(), s[i] to get the i'th character, etc. 22:33 < Namegduf> You're not going to get that, because that isn't how computers work. 22:33 < Soultaker> Java provides that. Python provides that. 22:33 < Namegduf> Then they use UTF-32 strings. 22:33 < Namegduf> Because not even UTF-16 can do that. 22:33 < Namegduf> Thanks to surrogate pairs. 22:34 < Soultaker> Java does UTF-16 I think. Not sure about Python (I think there was an option to use UCS-4) 22:34 < Namegduf> UTF-16 "almost" does it, which is good enough for it to work until you look away. 22:34 < Namegduf> (Characters that use surrogate pairs are rare) 22:35 < Namegduf> In reality, however, it's like UTF-8 in that you're indexing by sub-character units- it's just almost all characters fit in one unit. 22:36 -!- Nexoro [~nexo@c-71-192-75-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #go-nuts [] 22:38 < Soultaker> in practice that does make a huge difference. 22:38 < Namegduf> There is no algorithm for providing constant-time indexing by character where characters are not constant length that I've ever heard of, and no language is going to be able to make that problem go away for you. Need to pick either not having constant-time indexing, having fixed-length characters, or not indexing by character. UTF-16 has people weirdly pretend characters are constant length by defining surrogate pairs as multiple characters, which I figu 22:38 < Namegduf> I'm not sure of anywhere it makes any difference at all. 22:38 < Namegduf> But "whatever you say". 22:38 < Soultaker> for the record, both my python 2 and 3 install use 4-byte characters (although it's configurable at compiletime) 22:39 -!- pfroehlich [~chatzilla@c-98-204-215-206.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:40 < Namegduf> My point is that it is unrealistic to define Unicode support in a manner that requires terrible inefficiency to implement. 22:41 < Namegduf> I mean, being *able* to index by character is a reasonable expectation, but Go can do that. 22:41 < Namegduf> Just not by normal indexing. 22:42 < Namegduf> One way or another, it's expensive, though, so defining support as requiring that normal string operations suffer that inefficiency as an assist to the programmer... 22:43 < Soultaker> I guess it's a choice. Go already has byte slices which are perfectly fine containers of UTF-8 encoded data, which can be indexed by byte, of which you can take the length in bytes, et cetera. 22:43 < Soultaker> having a string type that's basically a non-modifiable byte slice is a bit of a let-down. 22:44 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@f052062136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:44 < Soultaker> but you said yourself: indexing and string length are going to be linear time operations on Go strings 22:44 < Soultaker> so you're trading memory inefficiency (a constant factor) for time inefficiency (at least in some cases) 22:47 < Soultaker> if only Go supported operator overloading (or any overloading) then I could do `type mystring []int' and define the appropriate methods =) 22:48 < Soultaker> not really the same since slices aren't immutable, but OK. 22:48 < Namegduf> Huh? 22:48 < Namegduf> No. 22:48 < Namegduf> Nothing to do with Go. 22:49 < Soultaker> Hmm? 22:49 < Namegduf> UTF-8 strings are constant time indexing by byte, or linear by character. 22:49 < Soultaker> yes. 22:49 < Namegduf> UTF-32 can be constant time for both, but involve a hefty memory cost. 22:50 < cenuij> There's still a real world bunfight about not using UTF-8? 22:50 < Soultaker> at most a 357% overhead, if you only use ASCII. 22:50 -!- gpolo [~gpolo@189.26.70.3.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 22:50 < Namegduf> Right, yes. "hefty" isn't quite big enough a word to cover that. 22:51 < Namegduf> That is just how things work. 22:51 < Namegduf> You get to pick. 22:51 < Soultaker> for people in Asia the overhead is only 33% 22:51 < Namegduf> Assuming they never use spaces or puncutation, yes. 22:51 < Namegduf> Angry, angry text. 22:51 < Soultaker> the overhead for Americans is only so large because ASCII is so compact. But UTF-8 is highly biased towards ASCII. 22:51 < Namegduf> Still quite a lot. 22:52 -!- rhelmer [~rhelmer@adsl-69-107-65-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 < Namegduf> That's like saying it's only so large because ASCII is so good by size. 22:52 < Soultaker> but that is true. 22:52 < Namegduf> It doesn't matter. They're being compared against each other. 22:53 < Soultaker> if you're processing, say, mostly chinese, switching from UTF-8 to {Java,Python}'s UTF-16 saves you 33% 22:53 < Namegduf> Assuming they don't use punctuatino. 22:53 < Namegduf> But UTF-16 doesn't give you constant time indexing by character. 22:53 < Namegduf> So I'm not sure what your point is. 22:53 -!- Adys_ [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Quit: I ♥ Unicode] 22:54 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 22:54 < Soultaker> the point is that you say people should switch from using Java (2 bytes per character) to Go (variable bytes per character) 22:54 < Namegduf> No. 22:54 < Namegduf> I'm saying Go provides perfectly fine Unicode support. 22:54 < Namegduf> There's a number of compromises involved inherently in handling Unicode. 22:55 < Soultaker> I'm sure that coming from Java, it's a step down. coming from Python it definitely is. 22:55 < Namegduf> You can have indexing by character by default, but one way or another, it costs. To say a language which does not pay this cost by default is not supporting Unicode is incorrect. 22:56 < Soultaker> I'm not debating any of this. 22:56 < Soultaker> Though I'm not a fan of call people "incorrect" when we're discussing ill-defined concepts like "Unicode support" 22:56 < Namegduf> Okay, then that's agreed, we can move on... I would agree that it is harder to use strings in Go, but Go's also faster. 22:57 < Soultaker> For some operations, may be. For others it'll be a lot slower. 22:57 < Namegduf> Vs something using UTF-32 or UTF-16 in some cases, with the fact they're paying a big memory overhead, yes. 22:58 < Soultaker> really, it depends on your requirements. 22:58 < Soultaker> If you want speed, than Java is probably a whole lot faster than Go for most tasks. 22:59 < Namegduf> Well, yes- if your requirements involve a great deal of indexing by character. 22:59 < Namegduf> Very, very few requirements do. 22:59 < Soultaker> If you want convenience, than Python definitely is a lot slower than Go, but the goal of that language is not speed. 22:59 < Namegduf> Java is unacceptable for my use due to terrible performance in aspects other than CPU usage. 22:59 -!- gnuvince [~vince@205.153-ppp.3menatwork.com] has quit [Quit: reboot] 22:59 < Namegduf> (RAM, mostly. It runs my VPSes out of it.) 23:01 < Soultaker> And how many of that is string data? :P 23:01 < Namegduf> No idea 23:01 < Namegduf> A lot, probably 23:01 < Namegduf> The last thing I tried using Java was a JS minification script 23:01 < cenuij> there are surely lessons to be learned from the various java VM's. I recently ran a reproduction of a blog net/perofrmance bench and when I disabled the Go GC i recouped almost 40% 23:01 < Namegduf> The speed difference between Java and Go is largely one of implementation rather than language, however 23:02 < cenuij> that cant be true, go points into things java never does 23:02 < Namegduf> Huh? 23:02 < Namegduf> "points into things"? 23:02 < Namegduf> Which pointers into what, and how do they hurt? 23:03 < Namegduf> I mean, certain things will inherently differ- such as indexing by character when surrogate pairs can be safely ignored, but largely the specification of Go has few inherent reasons to be slow. 23:04 < Namegduf> Or so I thought, anyway. 23:04 < Soultaker> I'm not so sure about the channels, but OK. 23:04 -!- gpolo [~gpolo@189.26.70.3.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: gpolo] 23:04 < Soultaker> one inherent reason could the lack of generics support. 23:04 < Namegduf> Well, yeah, and Go idioms vs Java idioms for speed is going to be a bloody fight not worth getting into. 23:05 < Soultaker> so there's two already =) 23:05 < Namegduf> I'm not sure about the generics support 23:05 < Namegduf> I mean, you think it might mean there's two copies of code in place of one copy? 23:06 < Namegduf> I guess you could argue that it could make a difference in some particularly bad cases, but I'm not sure it's significant enough to count. 23:06 -!- gnuvince [~vince@205.153-ppp.3menatwork.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:06 < Soultaker> for one, converting things into interface{}'s adds overhead; in many scenarios there must be an additional object allocated on the heap. 23:07 < Namegduf> No 23:07 < Namegduf> An interface is a pointer on steroids 23:07 < Soultaker> the second problem is that with interfaces instead of generics, a lot of function calls cannot be resolved at compiletime. 23:07 < Namegduf> And can readily be stack-allocated 23:08 < Soultaker> Namegduf: if you have (say) a binary tree of interface{}'s, than every node contains an interface{} structure which has a pointer to a data item which is allocated separately, isn't it? 23:08 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:08 < Soultaker> that's double the allocations right there (though not necessarily double the memory use) 23:09 < Soultaker> and I think there's an optimization for types not larger than a pointer, which is probably nice. 23:09 < Namegduf> Soultaker: True if you would otherwise be storing the object themselves in the tree. 23:09 < cenuij> throw in some dependancy on a few reflection values. 23:09 < Namegduf> If you would have been storing a pointer in the tree, no change. 23:10 < cenuij> and the end result is... a ternary tree in assembly, implemented in Go 23:10 < Soultaker> but to get back at the "second point": the lack of being able to resolve function calls statically means that you also lose the opportunity for inlining or for keeping variables in registers and such. 23:10 < cenuij> GG 23:10 < Soultaker> cenuij: I have no idea what you are suggesting :) 23:11 < cenuij> I am suggesting all this talk about inefficiencies of MB string encoding is a waste of breath, time & keystrokes 23:12 < Soultaker> we're not even on the subject of string encoding anymore, FY ;-) 23:12 < Soultaker> +I 23:12 < Soultaker> hehe, FY suggests something entirely different than I meant to say =) 23:21 -!- tvw [~tv@e176002242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:25 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:31 -!- jA_cOp [~yakobu@unaffiliated/ja-cop/x-9478493] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32 -!- jA_cOp [~yakobu@unaffiliated/ja-cop/x-9478493] has joined #go-nuts 23:53 -!- rhelmer [~rhelmer@adsl-69-107-65-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: rhelmer] --- Log closed Sun Jun 27 00:00:12 2010