--- Log opened Fri Sep 24 00:00:07 2010
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01:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fpO60 by [Nigel Tao] in
go/src/pkg/exp/spacewar/ -- exp/spacewar: fix build.
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02:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fpQPt by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ --
fmt/Printf: document and tweak error messages produced for bad formats
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02:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fpRF5 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/exp/nacl/ --
nacl: update instructions for new SDK
02:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fpRFc by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/html/ --
html: disable print
02:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fpRFr by [Peter Mundy] in go/src/pkg/os/ --
os: check for valid arguments in windows Readdir
02:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fpRFC by [Nigel Tao] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/exp/draw/ -- exp/draw: remove "this isn't ready yet" comments.
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02:36 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fpSv0 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/bufio/ --
bufio.UnreadRune: fix bug at EOF
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03:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fpU1Z by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/runtime/ --
runtime: fix unwindstack crash
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03:38 < enferex> So the Plan9 object file has assembled functions, in
Plan9/Go object-file format.  When does the actual emission of the Plan9 asm to
<architecture-specific-machine-code> get performed?  I know there is some
inter-module magic happening at link-time too, thus it seems that all
machine-specific assembly would occur at link-time?
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03:47 < enferex> Ah ok, the linker.  :-)
03:47 < enferex> I found the op table
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04:06 < uriel> enferex: this might be informative/helpful:
http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/new_c_compilers/
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04:07 < uriel> (or maybe not)
04:08 < enferex> uriel: thanks
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06:47 < dacc> i'm trying to test if a specific error has occurred, and
having a hard time doing the comparison
06:47 < dacc> trying to do: &http_err != http.ErrPersistEOF
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06:47 < dacc> ..  and getting: invalid operation: &http_err !=
http.ErrPersistEOF (type *os.Error != *http.ProtocolError)
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07:16 < dacc> nevermind, found the panic free type assertions
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09:07 < jhh> in the timing out example on the go blog, is the goroutine
(with the sleep call) guaranteed to be executed immediately?  i don't think it's
as trivial as it looks in the example
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09:09 < napsy> I guess it depends from the scheduler
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09:13 < jhh> and maybe the example is more about timing out eventually after
a finite amount of time.  but maybe it should be noted
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09:13 < napsy> well ..  every person that worked with threading shhould
already know that
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09:39 < uriel>
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/di5kn/go_concurrency_patterns_timing_out_moving_on/
09:39 < uriel> *facepalm at the comments*
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09:50 < exch> thye should start using brainscanners for people who want
internet acces.  If you don't have a brain, you won't be allowed on.  That shuold
at least reduce the frequency of comments like that
09:50 < exch> *they
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10:03 < paulzhol> hi, I've submitted CL 2273041 about 16 hours ago and it
still does not appear on golang-dev.  last time it took about 6 hours to show up,
is this expected ?
10:04 < taruti> sometimes there are delays
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10:06 < paulzhol> taruti: right, thanks
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10:12 < wrtp> paulzhol: have you run hg mail ?
10:12 < wrtp> usually i find the CLs turn up within a few seconds
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11:47 < exch> Does the unicode package interpret byte order marks at the
start of a string?
11:49 < uriel> I hope not
11:49 * uriel hates byte order marks
11:49 < exch> mm I should probably deal with them manually then
11:49 < uriel> on the other hand, I guess it probably has to
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11:50 < uriel> if I remember correctly, you can even have an utf16 stream
that changes endianess mid-stream
11:50 < uriel> it is so fucked up it is not even funny
11:50 < exch> heh yea that sounds painful
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12:14 < wrtp> exch: the unicode package only deals with characters, not
strings
12:15 < exch> mm ok
12:16 < exch> that still poses the issue of byte order though.  A multibyte
character is different depending on Little or Big endian
12:17 < wrtp> only if you're using utf16
12:17 < exch> utf8 forces a specific byte order?
12:18 < wrtp> utf8 is endian independent
12:18 < wrtp> i.e.  yes
12:18 < wrtp> the encoding is simple - worth learning
12:18 < exch> fair enough
12:20 < wrtp> it's also ascii compatible, which counts for a lot
12:20 < wrtp> the place that you might see byte order marks being dealt with
is in the utf16 package, but it doesn't deal with encoding to/from bytes at all
12:23 < exch> I'll have a read
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12:35 < exch> Which is the most liberal Open source license at the moment?
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12:37 < ampleyfly> exch: I'd guess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL
12:38 < exch> hehe that is pretty liberal
12:40 < nbjoerg> exch: do you count the lack of copyright as license or not?
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12:41 < exch> I'm not really interested in copyright notices.  I just want t
be sure /anyone/ and /everyone/ can use my work without any restrictions what so
ever.  Preferably including those countries where laws in this regard are a bit
prohibitive
12:44 < exch> I do suppose one of those lenghty liability disclaimers is
handy.  Just in case the world exlpodes from use of my stuff :p
12:49 < nbjoerg> well, of the standard licenses that would be either public
domain (a non-license) or mit
12:49 < nbjoerg> you could try a 1-clause BSD license if you want to be
clever :)
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12:58 < exch> ah the 1 clause BSD thing seems to work nicely
12:58 < exch> As far as I can judge anyways; not being a lawyer :p
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12:59 < nickaugust> is there a license for 'public domain'?  I dont think
you can just 'public domain' your software...
12:59 < exch> why not?
12:59 < nickaugust> i dont think it works like that
13:00 < nickaugust> public domain is after a copywrite expires isnt it?
13:00 < exch> I have no idea
13:00 < nickaugust> i dont think you can just say 'this software is public
domain!' :)
13:01 < exch> what if you don't impose a copyright notice?
13:01 < exch> that would be the same as if it had expired
13:01 < nickaugust> no one will use it because its not compatible to the
license of thier software
13:01 < nickaugust> hmmm..  I'm not really sure but I dont think it works
like that.
13:02 < nickaugust> I think you have to explicitly license it.
13:02 < exch> meh.  If I designed these things I would say that no license =
anything goes
13:03 < nickaugust> youre probably best of using the WTFPL ;)
13:03 < nickaugust> s/of/off
13:04 < exch> With the addition of a liability disclaimer.  People will sue
you for anything these days -.- "My fridge broke shortly after I started using
your code!11"
13:04 <+iant> It's extremely hard to put something in the public domain in
the U.S., unless you write it for the federal government, or you die and wait 75
years
13:05 < exch> lol.  The latter will happen eventually :p
13:05 < nickaugust> iant: is that 75 years with no changes?
13:05 <+iant> yes
13:05 < nickaugust> hehe hopefully no bugs appear after 60 years
13:05 <+iant> any work that you create is automatically copyrighted, by
definition (unless you work for the federal government)
13:05 <+iant> I don't know of any legally valid way to shake off that
copyright
13:06 <+iant> the best you can do is an explicit license saying that people
are permitted to use the code however they like
13:06 <+iant> and it's best to use an existing license, unless you are
actually a lawyer, as most people get it wrong when they try to write it
themselves
13:07 < nickaugust> hm, i wonder about software released in a different
country with different copywrite laws
13:07 < nickaugust> i guess the point is an american company couldnt use
your software unless it has a compaitble license
13:07 <+iant> the vast majority of countries have pretty much the same
copyright laws, thanks to the Berne Convention
13:07 <+iant> there are a couple of countries which haven't signed it
13:08 < nickaugust> sweden?
13:08 <+iant> no
13:08 <+iant> Taiwan
13:08 < nickaugust> ah
13:10 < nbjoerg> nickaugust: you can explicitly relinquish copyright in some
jurisdiction based on anglo-saxonian law
13:10 < nbjoerg> nickaugust: you can't do it in jurisdiction based on the
code civil
13:11 < nbjoerg> the difference with the Berne Convention is that a work is
coprighted by default (contrary to before 1989 in the USA)
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13:43 < uriel> 13:00 < nickaugust> i dont think you can just say 'this
software is public domain!' :)
13:43 < uriel> you certainly can, in any country that recognizes the public
domain, countries that don't are just too fucked up and beyond all hope
13:44 < uriel> (if you care that much about the stupid legalities in such
countries you can use something like C0, which is designed to work around such
insanity)
13:44 < uriel> but all this is way too offtopic and too retarded (anyone
that loves to argue about retarded laws and licenses, feel free to join #cat-v
where we love such pointless flamewards
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14:40 < nickaugust> uriel: C0?
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15:45 < Venom_X> Hi, I'm having trouble with sending json encoded strings
over websocket.  The client ends up with utf8 literals..  I must be doing
something wrong.  Can someone help me out?
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16:00 < exch> arg.  Go build failure
16:00 < exch> "proc_linux.go:300: to pass 'args' as ...interface { }, use
'args...'"
16:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqMiu by [Russ Cox] in go/src/ -- build: use
full path when compiling libraries
16:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqMiy by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc:
...  changes
16:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqMiJ by [Russ Cox] in 22 subdirs of go/ --
...  changes
16:05 < exch> fixed.
16:06 < cbeck> heh
16:06 < exch> it seems there's a syntax change for passing varargs around
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16:06 < exch> Hope this sorts out issue 640
16:07 < cbeck> yup, I think that was in the major release yesterday
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16:07 < exch> Someone forgot to change exp/draw/proc_linux.go to match
16:07 < exch> err debug/proc_linux.go
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16:17 < exch> hmm it doesn't
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16:22 < exch> meanwhile the binaries are getting bigger and bigger with
every release :<
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16:23 < exch> without any changes to the program itself, I just rebuilt to
accomodate a new go release.  For the past 3 iterations it went from 1.4MB ->
1.8MB -> 2.1MB and now 2.4MB
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16:27 < nsf> exch: I haven't noticed that much
16:27 < nsf> there was a major leap once
16:27 < nsf> gocode went from 2.4 to 3.2
16:27 < exch> 2 of my Go programs show this behaviour
16:27 < nsf> but it stays around that now
16:27 < exch> the other went from 3.2 to 3.8 in todays update
16:28 < nsf> hehe
16:28 < mpl> I've noticed some go-gtk stuff doesn't link anymore since the
latest release
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16:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqOIA by [Dan Sinclair] in go/src/pkg/xml/ --
xml: Allow entities inside CDATA tags
16:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqOIM by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gc/ -- gc:
printing of ...
16:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqOIX by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- asn1: make interface consistent with json
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16:36 < exch> the variadic stuff is broken
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16:39 < exch> http://pastebin.com/MaQA72qc
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16:58 < exch> definitely a bugsy.  Issue files
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17:20 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqSET by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/crypto/ocsp/
-- crypto/ocsp: update for asn1 change (fix build)
17:20 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqSF1 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/debug/proc/
-- debug/proc: ...  changes (fix build)
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17:22 < vsmatck> I think I found bug in the runtime package.  I made test
program.  http://seth.dnsdojo.net/misc/runtime_bug.tar.bz2
17:23 < vsmatck> I use runtime.Caller to get line number of caller and it
returns wrong line number.  Anyone want to confirm?
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17:23 < vsmatck> I have to have the runtime.Caller call in my own package
for it to have the bug.
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17:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqTZd by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ --
mkall.sh, mkerrors.sh: work more broadly
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17:50 < fabled> i'm trying to build gccgo from the gcc svn branch (for x86)
and i'm getting the following build error http://pastebin.com/pn3KDfGN
17:54 < fabled> it's likely gcc just being overprotective
17:55 <+iant> fabled: sorry about that, I just committed a patch which fixes
it
17:55 < fabled> iant, thanks!
17:56 < fabled> iant, btw.  i recently sent the mail "State of Go"...  what
do you think about the epoll/kqueue observations i made?
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17:58 <+iant> fabled: using edge-triggered polling?
17:59 <+iant> I would have to read about that, i don't know anything about
it offhand
17:59 < fabled> yes, that among other things
17:59 < fabled> and doing polling for timers and signals too
17:59 < fabled> (queued signals that is...  can't poll for panic signals
obviously)
17:59 <+iant> we could certainly do it for signals, I'm not there is a big
advantage over the way it currently works
18:00 <+iant> it seems like the timer code could be a bit better, it would
become more system dependent though
18:00 <+iant> I don't see these as big changes--the interface wouldn't
change
18:00 <+iant> by all means write up the patch
18:00 < fabled> right...  i'm more and more obliged to ditch my fiber
library and start fixing Go runtime :)
18:01 < fabled> i think the gccgo goroutine != nptl thread should be fixed
first
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18:02 < fabled> since the polling framework will not be useful until we can
do userland scheduling of the goroutines
18:02 <+iant> that is hard to fix, of course
18:03 <+iant> but, yes, it needs to be done
18:04 < fabled> some time ago, i did proof of concept fiber scheduler...
(it's at http://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/libtf/ in case you are interested)
18:05 < fabled> is there any particular problems gcc gives for doing that?
18:06 < fabled> doing split-stack seems harder to me...  :)
18:06 <+iant> no, this is all library work
18:06 <+iant> ideally gccgo and 6g/8g would share as much of the runtime
support as possible
18:06 <+iant> however, that is hard
18:06 <+iant> so maybe the issue is just letting go of that ideal
18:06 < fabled> right
18:07 < fabled> so it's just a lot of coding
18:07 <+iant> it's what I plan to do next one way or another after I get
gccgo merged into gcc mainline for the 4.6 release
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18:07 < mpl> iant: hello.  does the error "cfree: too many elf strings" when
linking a go-gtk program ring any bell to you?  the problem occurs after the 15-09
release, dunno when exactly.
18:10 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqWmE by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ --
syscall: fix permissions on mksysnum_nacl.sh
18:10 <+iant> mpl: that is a very odd sounding error
18:11 <+iant> ah, I see it in the linker source
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18:11 <+iant> the linker has a hard limit of 100 strings
18:11 <+iant> now let's see what that means....
18:12 < fabled> iant, btw.  i read your programming blog entries.  good
stuff!  i wish i had found it before i was fixing uclibc ld.so...  the linker
section contains really useful stuff.
18:12 <+iant> thx
18:13 < mpl> iant: I have to go soon, but I'll read up a bit later on the
backlog if you have any question if you want to debug that.  btw, the example
program in the go-gtk package fails in the same way, so I reckon the author will
notice that soon enough anyway.
18:14 <+iant> mpl: looks like it can happen if you link against a bunch of
shared libraries
18:15 < exch> I just got the same error when linking against 1 lib
18:15 < exch> CGO_LDFLAGS = `pkg-config --libs libmtp`
18:15 <+iant> the very quick fix will be to change "elfstr[100]" in
src/cmd/ld/elf.c to be "elfstr[200]"
18:15 <+iant> hmmm, I don't see how that could happen....
18:15 <+iant> maybe this has something to do with the new DWARF support
18:16 < exch> that pkg-config bit outputs '-lmtp -lusb'
18:16 < mpl> iant: in any case, it appeared with a recent change
18:16 <+iant> the dwarf support does use another 11 strings
18:17 <+iant> I'm not quite seeing how it gets up to 100, though
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18:17 < mpl> well, would that be surprising with the gkt stuff?  aren't
there lots of strings in there?
18:17 <+iant> strings in the code don't matter, this is just strings that
need to go into the ELF sections, like section names
18:18 < mpl> ah
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18:19 < exch> linking against libnjb (CGO_LDFLAGS = `pkg-config --libs
libnjb` -> '-lnjb') works fine
18:20 <+iant> biaw
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18:42 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqYf8 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ --
syscall: fix mkall.sh for nacl
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18:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqZsi by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ --
syscall: work harder to avoid doing this ever again
18:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fqZsr by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ --
syscall: fix socketpair in syscall_bsd
19:00 < fabled> iant, progressing in gccgo compilation, but now i get a link
error:
19:00 < fabled> /usr/bin/ld.gold: error:
exp/.libs/libdatafmt.a(libdatafmt.a.o): failed to match split-stack sequence at
section 83 offset 3bc0
19:00 < fabled> /usr/bin/ld.gold: error: exp/.libs/libeval.a(libeval.a.o):
failed to match split-stack sequence at section 726 offset 21df0
19:00 < fabled> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:04 < fabled> my linker is GNU gold (GNU Binutils for Ubuntu
2.20.1-system.20100303) 1.9
19:14 < fabled> i'll compile a newer gold
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19:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fr2wo by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ --
syscall: rebuild z files
19:32 <+iant> fabled: yes, you most likely need a newer gold
19:32 < fabled> iant, yes, that fixed it
19:32 < fabled> i now have working gccgo
19:32 < fabled> looks nice
19:33 < fabled> hello world compiles and runs
19:34 < fabled> libgo is huge, it'd make sense to split it to a bit more
smaller peaces (sometime in future)
19:37 <+iant> it's a shared library by default anyhow, but, yeah, it could
be split up
19:37 <+iant> first I'd have to fix gccgo so that it actually knows that
packages you have imported so that it links against them automatically
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19:55 < fabled> hmmh...  looks like pthread_cond_* stuff does lot of extra
syscalls to block signals (due to async cancellations)
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19:56 < fabled> that kills even more performance in gccgo goroutines
19:56 < fabled> ok.  once we get gccgo goroutines to be lightweight, it
should be starting to be pretty usable for me.
20:03 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fr4Qq by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/cmd/gofmt/ -- gofmt: don't substitute invalid positions with valid ones in
rewrites
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20:43 < mpl> how come there's not some sort of recovery when the network
tests in the test suite fail?
20:44 < mpl> I mean, what if you're building go on a comp with no internet
connection atm, shouldn't we have a way to let the following tests go on?
20:47 < mpl> iant: btw, I changed elfstr[100] to elfstr[200] and I still get
the linking error when compiling a go-gtk program of mine.
20:47 <+iant> mpl: OK, clearly I don't understand what is going on
20:47 <+iant> is there an issue open for that?
20:47 < mpl> not that I know of, haven't checked.
20:47 <+iant> mpl: I think there is an easy way to avoid running the network
tests
20:48 < mpl> well I simply avoid running all the tests altogether
20:48 <+iant> that works too
20:48 < mpl> but that doesn't solve the problem of running the tests after
the network tests yeah.
20:49 < mpl> maybe I'll try to work on a CL that allows those tests to fail
without interrupting the test chain
20:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fr82K by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net:
fix crash in DialIP
20:51 <+iant> as long as the overall build exits non-zero, and there is a
clear indication of which test(s) failed
20:52 < mpl> ok.  I happened to run into that a lot lately since my net is
flaky.  took me a few moments to figure out there was nothing wrong with the build
itself :/
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20:59 < mpl> iant: heh, it passes with elfstr[300].  seems like you had it
right, but just underestimated the issue :)
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21:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fr9hg by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net:
enable v4-over-v6 on ip sockets
21:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fr9hy by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/utf8/ --
utf8: Add new type String to automate string indexing by code point.
21:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fr9iH by [Robert Griesemer] in go/doc/ -- go
spec: ...  changes
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21:24 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fraHS by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gc/ -- gc:
improve error message for x \= 0
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22:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/frhpv by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/utf8/ --
utf8.String: Slice(i,j)
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23:51 < exch> is 'int' always 32 bit, regardless of platform?
23:52 <+iant> exch: that is not guaranteed by the language, but it happens
to be true for all the current implementations
23:52 < exch> hmm so I shouldn't place my bets on it then.  SOme future
implementation may decide otherwise
23:53 <+iant> yeah, if you want a specific size, use int32
23:54 < exch> I'm reading unicode runes and writing them to a utf-16 stream.
using []int("foo") with indeterminate sizes for each rune will potentially mess up
the conversion to 4 bytes
23:55 < exch> Not sure if it's safe to just cast a rune to uint32
23:56 <+iant> it should be safe
23:56 < exch> if 'int' becomes 8 bytes at some point, chosing which 4 bytes
to write out would depend on the system's endianness I suppose
23:56 <+iant> casting int64 to int32 will always give you the four least
significant bytes
23:57 < exch> ok that's good to know
--- Log closed Sat Sep 25 00:00:07 2010