--- Log opened Tue Oct 26 00:00:12 2010 00:09 < plexdev> http://is.gd/giYRy by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/runtime/ -- runtime: remove .c generated from .goc during make clean 00:09 < plexdev> http://is.gd/giYRX by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/src/cmd/goinstall/ -- goinstall: display helpful message when encountering a cgo package. 00:09 < plexdev> http://is.gd/giYSm by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: generate correct gofmt-formatted _testmain.go 00:10 < adg> nsf: there you go ^^ 00:10 < adg> ;) 00:10 < nsf> adg: nice, but it's not for me, I don't use goinstall :) 00:10 < adg> nsf: now you can _try_ to use it, and it will tell you what to do instead! 00:10 < adg> :P 00:11 < nsf> :) 00:12 < TheSeeker> Is cross-compiling for win32 a relatively simple process? or am I stuck waiting for official gomingw releases? 00:14 < adg> TheSeeker: no, it's very simple 00:14 < nsf> it depends 00:14 < adg> TheSeeker: just set GOOS=windows GOARCH=386 and make.bash 00:14 < nsf> simple for some, hard for others 00:14 < adg> then you'll have the tools and libs to build for windows 00:15 < adg> (the tests won't run, obviously) 00:15 < adg> but the library support isn't complete, so not everything will work 00:16 < adg> TheSeeker: you can find out which parts don't work yet by checking the lines under "# Disable tests that windows cannot run yet. 00:16 < adg> in src/pkg/Makefile 00:21 < TheSeeker> hmm, maybe I'll try compiling on my windows box under msys bash... 00:24 < TheSeeker> or not, it doesn't work... ok, try cygwin... 00:24 < TheSeeker> hmm, it wants goroot to be the source dir? 00:25 < adg> TheSeeker: sorry, i can't help you here. i've not built it under windows. i would try mingw instead of cygwin, as that has a proven track record. 00:27 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@71.16.235.2] has joined #go-nuts 00:33 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.198.84] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:43 < TheSeeker> I have mingw ... the issue is executing the bash script. 00:51 < TheSeeker> hmm, on the linux side, I'm getting a "conflicting types for 'pread' and 'prwite' in src/libmach/windows.c 00:55 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@219.137.48.14] has joined #go-nuts 00:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gj3ye by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/pkg/go/scanner/ -- go/scanner: delete unnecessary type declarations 00:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gj3yp by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/pkg/tabwriter/ -- tabwriter: delete unnecessary type declaration 00:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gj3yH by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/pkg/big/ -- big: delete unnecessary type decls 00:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gj3zi by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- arm: precise float64 software floating point 00:57 -!- enherit [~enherit@cpe-98-149-170-48.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:58 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-142gfrf.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:58 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d64c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION] 01:04 -!- kanru2 [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 01:07 -!- Tv [~tv@gige.bur.digisynd.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gj59V by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/debug/gosym/ -- debug/gosym: do not run when cross-compiling 01:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gj5a2 by [Robert Griesemer] in go/lib/godoc/ -- godoc: show page title in browser title bar 01:16 < TheSeeker> hmm, GOHOSTARCH is another variable that's kindof important for compiling :) 01:19 < TheSeeker> hmm, or not :/ 01:20 < TheSeeker> I keep getting quietgcc: line 36: $tmp: ambiguous redirect 01:21 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@232.80-203-20.nextgentel.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:23 < TheSeeker> I wonder if it could be because I have a space in my username? 01:30 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055160158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:33 < TheSeeker> looks like it 01:34 < TheSeeker> now I'm getting similar pread/pwrite declaration errors 01:34 * TheSeeker gives up trying to x-compile for now 01:38 -!- electrograv [81d28070@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.210.128.112] has joined #go-nuts 01:39 < electrograv> hello 01:40 < electrograv> so... I'm about to start messing around in go.. but I have a quick question: in Go can you create a byte array and write structs directly to that memory 01:40 < electrograv> ? 01:41 < electrograv> because if so I think that completely fulfills what I would have originally used generics for in C++ 01:42 < nsf> electrograv: you can, using 'unsafe' magic 01:42 < electrograv> hmm 01:42 < nsf> but it can be a problem in theory for garbage collector 01:42 < electrograv> because I realized that I can accomplish everything I would have with generics using memory manipulation 01:42 < electrograv> hmm 01:43 < nsf> current one will eat it just fine 01:43 < nsf> it is conservative anyway 01:43 < electrograv> well I'd just be allocating a huge byte array 01:43 < electrograv> then destroying when the program ends 01:43 < electrograv> possibly resizing it once or twice 01:43 < nsf> but if your structs doesn't contain pointes 01:43 < nsf> pointers* 01:43 < nsf> then it's fine 01:43 < nsf> do not* 01:43 < electrograv> ok 01:44 < electrograv> good point.. 01:44 < electrograv> no pointers though 01:44 < electrograv> if they had pointers in them I wouldnt be storing them this way anyway 01:44 < nsf> so, I'll show you how it looks like now: 01:44 < nsf> a := myStruct{..} 01:44 < nsf> b := make([]byte, unsafe.Sizeof(a)) 01:45 < nsf> copy(b, (*(*[999]byte)(unsafe.Pointer(&a)))[:unsafe.Sizeof(a)]) 01:45 < nsf> something like that 01:45 < nsf> if I didn't screw everything somewhere :) 01:45 < electrograv> hmm 01:46 < electrograv> ok 01:46 < nsf> basically you're casting a pointer to an array to the unsafe.Pointer 01:46 < nsf> oops, sorry 01:46 < nsf> 1. basically you're casting a pointer to a struct to the unsafe.Pointer 01:47 < nsf> 2. then unsafe.Pointer to an array pointer 01:47 < nsf> 3. then you're taking a slice of that array, dereferencing the pointer first 01:47 < nsf> and here you go :) 01:47 < electrograv> :) 01:47 < electrograv> makes sense 01:47 < electrograv> looks a bit messy 01:47 < electrograv> but it will work 01:47 < electrograv> I think 01:48 < nsf> well, that's why it's in "unsafe" 01:48 < electrograv> yeah 01:48 < electrograv> hmmmmm 01:48 < electrograv> I like what I see in Go so far... 01:49 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 01:49 < nsf> oh, there is also another way 01:50 < nsf> let's suppose you have a slice of bytes 'a' and a struct type MyStruct 01:50 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has joined #go-nuts 01:50 < nsf> b := (*MyStruct)(unsafe.Pointer(&a[0])) 01:50 < nsf> now 'b' is a pointer to this struct type, but it points to the memory inside slice 'a' 01:51 < nsf> then you can simply assign assignable struct to it: 01:51 < nsf> *b = MyStruct{1, 2, 3} 01:51 < nsf> that way it's less error prone I believe 01:51 < nsf> and no need to use unsafe.Sizeof 01:51 < nsf> (well at some point you still have to use it, for choosing the size for a slice) 01:51 < nsf> but.. 01:52 -!- boscop [~boscop@g227146201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 01:52 < electrograv> hmm 01:52 < electrograv> that seems pretty good 01:55 < electrograv> well as long as it works I guess... even if its not too clean I suppose 01:56 < nsf> the main problem that it is very unsafe 01:56 < electrograv> yeah 01:56 < nsf> it's like C no more, no less 01:56 < nsf> so, I'm suggesting doing that kind of optimizations only after you have a fully working logic and a set of tests 01:58 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@71.16.235.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has joined #go-nuts 01:59 < electrograv> yeah 01:59 < electrograv> hmm... wait... do you know if Go has a compare-and-swap capability anywhere yet? 02:00 < jesusaurus> what makes gomake different from make? 02:00 < nsf> jesusaurus: it sets GOROOT for you 02:00 < nsf> pointing to a place where you have built Go 02:01 < nsf> electrograv: I think Go doesn't have any kind of atomic ops 02:01 < electrograv> hmmm 02:01 < Namegduf> I think certain operations are atomic 02:01 < Namegduf> But I don't know which. 02:01 < nsf> yeah, it's not specified 02:01 < Namegduf> I think assigning to a single byte is, for example. 02:01 < Namegduf> It might be platform specific. 02:01 < Namegduf> Ala C. 02:01 < electrograv> I dont think I can implement a lock-free queue without CAS 02:01 < electrograv> yeah 02:01 < electrograv> I might just imprort the c libs 02:02 < electrograv> import* 02:02 < nsf> unfortunatelly importing C lib via cgo for that purpose is a bad idea 02:02 < Namegduf> Yeah, it's, well, slow. 02:02 < nsf> you'll need to write a function you need in plan9's C 02:02 < nsf> or asm 02:02 < electrograv> well you dont know if it's cached though...? 02:02 < electrograv> oops 02:02 < Namegduf> No, it is slow. 02:02 < electrograv> nevermind that post, I was 02:02 < Namegduf> (Normal) C and Go have different calling conventions for functions 02:02 < electrograv> looking at the wrong line half a page up 02:03 < electrograv> ) 02:03 < Namegduf> In order to support segmented stacks in Go. 02:03 < Namegduf> This means that calling into C needs to convert to a stack that C can accept; at least one large enough. 02:03 < nsf> yeah, but you can still write C/asm code for Go using plan9's compiler suite 02:03 < nsf> see runtime package 02:03 < nsf> and how things work here 02:03 < electrograv> ok 02:03 < electrograv> hmm 02:03 < Namegduf> You should probably just add a single little assembly file 02:03 < electrograv> yeah 02:03 < Namegduf> Which provides the asm stuff you need. 02:04 < Namegduf> And build the rest in Go. 02:14 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 02:30 -!- iant [~iant@66.135.114.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:33 < uriel> 01:23 < TheSeeker> I wonder if it could be because I have a space in my username? 02:33 < uriel> oh dear, do people have spaces in their user names? *sigh* 02:34 -!- iant [~iant@66.135.114.72] has joined #go-nuts 02:34 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 02:34 < uriel> TheSeeker: file an issue about it anyway, I guess if the OS allows it, the Go build system should deal with it 02:36 -!- electrograv [81d28070@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.210.128.112] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:42 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:46 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:47 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-142gfrf.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51 < uriel> damn, electrograv left, was going to post a linke to: 02:51 < uriel> http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/6b18d8639e38660a/c0f140202ab23ff1?lnk=gst&q=cas#c0f140202ab23ff1 02:51 < uriel> (re CAS) 02:52 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:00 -!- feder [~feder@119.40.36.130] has joined #go-nuts 03:11 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@232.80-203-20.nextgentel.com] has left #go-nuts [] 03:24 -!- Tv [~tv@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 03:26 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-96-226-238-248.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36 * nsf can't wait for 'append' gets implemented 03:37 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53 * uriel eagerly nods in agreement ^_^ 04:01 < KirkMcDonald> append(go, append) 04:07 < nsf> ) 04:07 < nsf> go = append(go, append) 04:18 -!- dj2 [~dj2@2002:63ec:1a4e:0:21f:5bff:fe35:feb5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gjmUw by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/ -- arm: enable all tests 04:40 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@pool-96-226-238-248.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:41 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@pool-96-226-238-248.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has left #go-nuts [] 04:52 -!- eikenberry [~jae@ivanova.zhar.net] has quit [Quit: End of line.] 05:12 < uriel> wohoo! yay arm! 05:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gjrAe by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/devel/ -- doc: update roadmap 05:20 < nsf> I was talking about it yesterday, and here I'm doing that again. My documentation generator project, sneak peek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSFbRhXEFdw 05:20 < nsf> http://jiss.convex.ru/gowtf <- live demo 05:21 < nsf> any comments/ideas regarding usability? 05:21 < nsf> I don't like something about it, but I don't know what exactly :( 05:23 < uriel> i like it 05:23 < uriel> but there is something not quite right 05:24 < uriel> it is a bit... 05:24 < nsf> what? :) 05:24 < uriel> cluttered 05:24 < nsf> what do you mean? visually? 05:24 < uriel> visually and maybe conceptually 05:24 < uriel> you don't get the feeling that you can get a clear view of what you are looking for 05:24 < nsf> well, yep, I don't like the filtering by classes part: e.g. :t :tm :ftc 05:25 < nsf> yes, exactly 05:25 < nsf> something is a bit wrong 05:25 < nsf> like it's not quite structured, but a bit messy 05:25 < nsf> it's the feeling 05:25 < uriel> yes 05:26 < uriel> but I think in part it is an astetic issue 05:26 < nsf> I'm a bad web designer (or should I say I'm not a web designer at all) 05:26 < uriel> well, the sidebar/tree/menu is not very usable, too many items 05:26 < nsf> true 05:26 < uriel> nah, the look is good, it is just the details 05:26 < nsf> I'm thinking about removing it 05:27 < uriel> also I would add bigger margins around the content items, 05:27 < uriel> like after and before the list of types 05:27 < nsf> also I thought about highlighting best matches in a certain special way 05:27 < nsf> like if you type "expr" and there is a type called "Expr" it means it is the best match 05:27 < nsf> it should be highlighted as such, imho 05:28 < nsf> currently it blends with other garbage 05:28 < nsf> or yes, maybe increasing a space between elements will solve that 05:28 < uriel> nah, first do some cleaning up, then do highlighting 05:29 < uriel> but only increase space between the content stuff 05:29 < uriel> on the tree menu, I would remove the lines that connect items 05:29 < nsf> I guess I'll get rid of a tree as a first step and possible replace it with something useful 05:29 < uriel> and reduce the padding/margin between rows, so it is more compact 05:30 < uriel> I'd try to make it more compact, that would make it more useful for big trees 05:30 < nsf> I don't like the tree, especially if it's big it becomes useless 05:30 < nsf> you're just scrolling browser a lot 05:31 < nsf> without any kind of pleasure :) 05:31 < nsf> and this smart-ass filter should solve the problem of visual search 05:31 < uriel> also, instead of having Types/Consts/Funcs as part of the tree, have three independent trees (I know the difference sounds superficial, but I think it would improve things, as the long line to the left of the menu that is created when you expand one part is caused by this) 05:31 < nsf> like if you're looking for a type, you simply do: ':t' and see all the types 05:32 < nsf> again, I think I'll remove the tree completely 05:32 < uriel> so have three 'tabs' with three different more 'flat' menus, one for each tyeps/consts/funcs 05:32 < uriel> oh well 05:32 < nsf> :) 05:32 < nsf> tree just ruins the way it is supposed to be used 05:32 < uriel> also, is all this from a single package? 05:33 < nsf> yes 05:33 < uriel> seems like a pretty huge package 05:33 < nsf> 107 entries (not counting methods) 05:33 < uriel> oh, also, get rid of non-public stuff 05:33 < nsf> syscall is bigger :) 05:33 < uriel> or hide it by default 05:33 < nsf> I will 05:33 < uriel> that alone would cut the amount of stuff in half or more, and would make the tree much more manageable 05:33 < nsf> it's the generator issue, I want to finish the template 05:34 < nsf> that's the point too, yes, I guess I'll do that 05:34 < nsf> but tree.. 05:34 * nsf wants to remove it 05:34 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gjt7k by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/devel/ -- doc: update roadmap 05:35 < uriel> what is the 'URL' link for besides the magnifying glass? 05:35 < nsf> well, you type stuff in filter field 05:35 < nsf> and URL allows you to get an URL for what you've found 05:36 < nsf> http://jiss.convex.ru/gowtf/?:tm%20!Scope 05:36 < nsf> like this 05:36 < nsf> type and methods of the type "Scope" 05:36 < uriel> ah, I get it now 05:37 < nsf> the whole system is based around that filter field 05:37 < uriel> I think what some sites do is change the #... selector in the url 05:37 < uriel> (or whatever it is called) 05:37 < uriel> which I think can be done from js without forcing a reload from the server 05:37 < nsf> yes, I know that # will prevent reloading 05:38 < nsf> but currently the way it's done in js, kind of sucks 05:38 < uriel> still, then those urls will only work via js that will check for that stuff and re-parse it 05:38 < nsf> especially when it comes to history manipulation 05:38 < Tv> nsf: the only really odd-looking thing is the ":tm" etc syntax 05:38 < uriel> well, js kind of sucks 05:38 < nsf> Tv: uriel: agreed 05:38 < nsf> uriel: but you know, reality sucks 05:38 < uriel> Tv: I don't know, I don't find that syntax odd at all, actually I like it 05:39 < nsf> Tv: but! it's the only sane way to do the very flexible filtering 05:39 < nsf> if you have any other ideas for that, go on 05:39 < Tv> nsf: not convinced about "only" 05:39 < nsf> Tv: ideas? 05:39 < Tv> nsf: i'd have to understand the current stuff first.. 05:39 < nsf> ok :) 05:39 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:39 < nsf> type '?' 05:39 < nsf> and read the help :) 05:39 < Tv> lucene & google set a strong precedent for <something>:<string> 05:39 < uriel> the help message is wrong though 05:40 < uriel> arg2 is optional 05:40 < nsf> it is 05:40 < uriel> and I would call it method 05:40 < Tv> nsf: const:foo, that you can abbreviate to c:foo 05:40 < Tv> nsf: immediately better than :c foo 05:40 < nsf> Tv: the problem is 05:40 < nsf> what if you just want to find foo 05:40 < uriel> Tv: ah, I like that, if only because it is consistent with the way google search works 05:40 < Tv> nsf: just type "foo" 05:41 < Tv> uriel: exactly.. 05:41 < Tv> and lucene and just about every user-friednly search engine ever 05:41 < nsf> Tv: ah, I see, but what if you want to find all the constants? 'c:'? 05:41 < Tv> nsf: sure.. or even c:* 05:41 < nsf> I see, good point 05:41 < nsf> I'll think about that 05:41 < Tv> but i don't see what else c: would mean 05:41 < nsf> and one more question 05:42 < nsf> what if you want to find a type and methods of that type? 05:42 < uriel> "The '?' query shows this page." is redundant ;) 05:42 < nsf> tm:Scope? 05:42 < Tv> nsf: what's it in current syntax? 05:42 < uriel> (another bit of clutter that can be removed) 05:42 < nsf> :tm !Scope 05:42 < nsf> '!' means show the best match only 05:42 < Tv> nsf: the combining semantics aren't really explained 05:42 < uriel> what is wrong with tm:!scope? 05:42 < Tv> nsf: does ":tm" mean something else than ":t" OR ":m" 05:42 < nsf> uriel: nothing 05:43 < uriel> or tm!:scope 05:43 < nsf> I'm just curious 05:43 < uriel> actually, I would put it before the : 05:43 < nsf> I don't mind changing the syntax 05:43 < Tv> i'd allow exclamation at end, that's more natural to me 05:43 < nsf> if it's more intuitive 05:43 < uriel> so you have [opts]:search-string 05:43 < Tv> whatiwantIREALLYWANTIT! 05:43 < nsf> Tv: agreed 05:43 < uriel> no, that is awful! 05:43 < nsf> [opts]:search-string[!] 05:44 < nsf> why? :) 05:44 < Tv> uriel: see, you put exclamation at end too ;) 05:44 < uriel> having bot prefix and suffix modifiers, yuck 05:44 < nsf> uriel: but what if you just want to find scope 05:44 < Tv> i'd think of ! more as "c:foo !", after a space even 05:44 < nsf> you say: 05:44 < uriel> and it is totally arbitrary which ones are prefix and which ones are sufix 05:44 < nsf> scope! 05:44 < Tv> i mean, it's not related to that single thing 05:44 < nsf> damn it 05:44 < nsf> :D 05:44 < Tv> it's "don't show a list" 05:44 < Tv> it modifies the *whole* query 05:44 < uriel> Tv: so does t: or whatever 05:44 < Tv> i mean, that's how i understood it 05:45 < Tv> "!" = "Feeling Lucky" 05:45 < uriel> it means "don't show anything other than types' 05:45 < uriel> also, having it as a sufix makes modifying existing queries more of a pain 05:45 < Tv> uriel: i'm saying put it anywhere 05:45 < nsf> well, I'm certain about using 't:<search>' instead of ':t <search>' 05:45 < uriel> if you have t!: blah, you can easily replace blah, while preserving the options 05:45 < nsf> at least it is minus one space symbol 05:45 < nsf> it's good 05:46 -!- dropdriv1 [~dropdrive@cpe-72-227-159-70.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 05:46 < Tv> uriel: what's the difference? word selection selects blah for me in either case 05:46 < uriel> Tv: it is much easier to select from a point (eg., :) to end of string 05:46 < uriel> than to have to select up to another single char (!) 05:46 < Tv> uriel: then say ! t:blah 05:46 < uriel> basic ui stuff 05:46 < nsf> uriel: the mind trick about: '!' is the following 05:46 < nsf> it's filtering stuff 05:47 < nsf> means from anything to more specific 05:47 < uriel> nsf: so, just like t: 05:47 < uriel> t: is also filtering stuff 05:47 < nsf> prefix does by class 05:47 < nsf> like: 05:47 < nsf> we have everything 05:47 < nsf> then we're interesting only in types 05:47 < nsf> 't:' 05:47 < nsf> then we want all types 05:47 < nsf> that match "scope' 05:47 < nsf> 't:scope' 05:47 < nsf> and finally 05:47 < nsf> we want the best match out of these matches 05:47 < nsf> 't:scope!' 05:48 < nsf> it's like natural flow 05:48 < nsf> from many things to one 05:48 < nsf> interested* 05:48 -!- exch_ [~exch@h78233.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts 05:48 < nsf> so.. I vote for postfix '!' :D 05:49 < nsf> actually that was the idea initially 05:49 < nsf> but the problem is: 05:49 < nsf> I have two queries in the one 05:49 < nsf> ARG1 ARG2 05:49 < nsf> ARG2 for methods 05:49 < nsf> scope!.insert!? 05:50 < nsf> or maybe just scope.insert! 05:50 < Tv> nsf: why do you need doublebang? 05:50 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: iocanel, twittard, uggedal, araujo, exch, ap3xo, dropdrive, KirkMcDonald 05:50 < nsf> and the first '!' is implicit 05:50 < Tv> there's only one way to have feel lucky 05:50 < Tv> s/have // 05:50 < nsf> Tv: well, the problem is: 05:50 < nsf> tm:scope will search for types and methods of the best matched type 05:50 < nsf> tm:scope! will search for the best matched type and its methods 05:51 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@5634798d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 05:51 < nsf> but I need to be able to filter methods as well 05:51 < nsf> but as I've said, implicit rules here make sense 05:51 -!- apexo [~apexo@daedalus.isaco.de] has joined #go-nuts 05:51 < nsf> like if you're trying to find methods, first '!' is implicit 05:52 < nsf> anyways.. it's a big system with few dark corners 05:52 < nsf> but thanks for comments, I'll come back when the next iteration will be ready :D 05:53 < nsf> I'll try [opts]:<search>[!] form 05:56 -!- KirkMcDonald [~Kirk@24.143.227.33] has joined #go-nuts 05:56 -!- KirkMcDonald [~Kirk@24.143.227.33] has quit [Changing host] 05:56 -!- KirkMcDonald [~Kirk@python/site-packages/KirkMcDonald] has joined #go-nuts 05:58 -!- twittard [~acts_as@208.236.105.27] has joined #go-nuts 06:01 < nsf> and one more thing regarding '?' vs '#' in the url 06:02 < nsf> '?' forces browser to reload the page from the server indeed 06:02 < nsf> but it reloads only the html file 06:02 < nsf> gowtf template is javascript heavy anyways, the html itself is 2kb 06:02 < nsf> not a big deal 06:03 < nsf> and gowtf's target is downloadable documentation (that's why it's pure client-side js, without any kind of ajax queries) 06:05 < nsf> '?' gives history integration for free :) 06:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 06:12 -!- iocanel [~iocanel@upstream1.ath.forthnet.gr] has joined #go-nuts 06:13 < Tv> nsf: doing history with #anchors is perfectly doable 06:15 -!- feder [~feder@119.40.36.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:26 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:31 < nsf> Tv: in html5 06:32 < nsf> it has "onhashchange" event 06:32 < nsf> it pre-html5 it's a magic trickery with iframes 06:35 < nsf> s/it/in/ 06:37 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 06:43 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has joined #go-nuts 06:45 -!- ucasano [~ucasano@host153-182-static.227-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 06:51 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:52 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-49-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 06:54 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has joined #go-nuts 07:01 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:06 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@5634798d.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. 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I was wondering if and how I can access a webcam using go. I could not find anything about this topic. Any tips are appreciated. Thank you! 09:56 <@adg> Armageddon421: as far as I know, there are no libraries for accessing USB webcams with Go. it would depend on your operating system, the webcam, and the various layers of software in between 09:58 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 10:00 -!- feder [~feder@119.40.36.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:02 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055203086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 10:03 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04 < Armageddon421> Thank you. So there are no v4l2 bindings ? 10:04 < Armageddon421> I am on Arch Linux and my webcam uses uvcvideo 10:05 < Armageddon421> like most cheap webcams do. How difficult is it to write bindings for such a library ? 10:05 < exch> If it's a C library, not difficult at all/ 10:05 <@adg> Armageddon421: there is a tool called cgo, which allows you to call into C code from Go code 10:05 < Armageddon421> There are plenty of C libraries to access v4l devices 10:05 < exch> Of its a C++ codebase, it gets a little more involved, but SWIG should take care of most of the headache 10:05 <@adg> http://golang.org/cmd/cgo/ 10:06 <@adg> and some examples here http://golang.org/misc/cgo/ 10:06 < Armageddon421> ah so there is a difference between c and c++ in that case ? 10:06 <@adg> Armageddon421: there is. you can use SWIG for either C or C++, but CGO only works for C 10:06 < Armageddon421> okay cool 10:06 < exch> Both can be handled by SWIG afaik, but yes, C code is easier to deal with if you do it manually 10:06 <@adg> Armageddon421: i am working on some docs for swig at the moment, but they're incomplete as yet 10:07 < Armageddon421> Using those tools, can I just fork a goroutine that uses SWIG to capture a frame from my webcam and later retrieve tre result ? 10:08 < exch> Armageddon421: Here are plenty of community made examples of C bindings, You can use them as a template/guide http://go-lang.cat-v.org/library-bindings 10:08 < exch> If you design your bindings that way, that should be possible 10:09 < Armageddon421> I think I might use this library: http://antonym.org/libfg/ 10:10 < exch> I was just looking at that. Seems simple enough 10:10 < Armageddon421> ok nice, thank you for all your help! 10:11 < Armageddon421> I've startet diving into go about a week ago and I think it's a really powerful language 10:11 <@adg> it is :) 10:11 <@adg> let us know how you go 10:11 < Armageddon421> I was used to python and the speed of light really impressed me 10:11 < Armageddon421> *the speed of go 10:11 < Armageddon421> ;) 10:13 < exch> Armageddon421: looking through the source of libfg, I get the impression it just makes syscalls to get the actual videodata from the device. I think you can port this lib to go directly. No need to maintain the C side 10:14 < exch> More work of course 10:14 < Armageddon421> exch: Wow, thanks for that idea 10:14 < Armageddon421> I was thinking it used v4l as backend or something 10:14 < exch> As I understand it, v4l is part of the kernel itself 10:14 < Armageddon421> I think I'll find out whether it supports uvcvideo first. 10:14 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.29.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:14 < exch> I might be wrong though 10:15 < Armageddon421> exch: damn, you're right :) Forgot about that 10:15 < Armageddon421> Since I don't need all that TV-Tuner stuff, it should be pretty easy to convert that over to golang 10:16 < exch> Worth a try I think 10:17 <@adg> that would be really cool! i would use it if you write it :) 10:17 <@adg> i have a webcam attached to my linux machine at work; it should do something other than nothing :) 10:18 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.29.2] has joined #go-nuts 10:18 < Armageddon421> hehe okay, nice to hear that. I'll definitely give it a shot 10:21 -!- idr [~idr@g225022181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 10:29 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 10:33 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.198.84] has joined #go-nuts 10:36 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has joined #go-nuts 10:37 -!- idr [~idr@g225022181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:37 -!- idr [~idr@g225066164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 10:37 < Armageddon421> okay first problem 10:38 < Armageddon421> How would I do this: if( ioctl( fg->fd, VIDIOCGCAP, &(fg->caps) ) < 0 ) 10:39 < Armageddon421> VIDIOCGCAP is defined in linux/videodev.h 10:40 < Armageddon421> There are lots more of ioctl calls in the code 10:40 < uriel> I guess we might need a proper way to actually display video hen ;P 10:42 < Armageddon421> uriel: For my use there is not really a need to display the video. I just need direct pixel access to the frame data 10:42 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has joined #go-nuts 10:42 < uriel> Armageddon421: I think if you look in the go-nuts or golang-dev archives you will find discussion on how to do ioctls (it is basically a syscall, you can also probably some existing libs that need it as examples) 10:42 < uriel> Armageddon421: yea, I know it is not needed for everything, but would be another 'nice to have' thing ;) 10:43 < Armageddon421> I might extend on that later 10:43 < Armageddon421> It should be possible to pass the image buffer over to SDL somehow.... 10:47 < uriel> yea, I guess that should work 10:49 -!- idr0 [~idr@g229048185.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 10:49 -!- idr [~idr@g225066164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:51 < Armageddon421> I gotta run for now. Talk to you later! 10:51 -!- Armageddon421 [~armageddo@89.204.153.5] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:07 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:09 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.198.84] has quit [Quit: bye] 11:10 -!- idr0 [~idr@g229048185.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10 -!- idr0 [~idr@g229048007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:12 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.29.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:13 -!- ct529 [~quassel@envpc1758.york.ac.uk] has joined #go-nuts 11:18 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.29.2] has joined #go-nuts 11:20 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 11:26 -!- xash [~xash@d025091.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:39 -!- devrim [~Adium@cpe-72-225-239-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 11:41 -!- ct529 [~quassel@envpc1758.york.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54 -!- fhs [~fhs@pool-74-101-63-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:18 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:21 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@5634798d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 12:24 -!- sahid [~sahid@LNeuilly-152-21-22-10.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 12:32 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:33 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.29.2] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 12:34 -!- mikhailt [~mikhailt@2001:67c:7c:40d5:2e0:4cff:fe7b:13ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:35 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:35 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.29.2] has joined #go-nuts 12:40 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 12:42 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:53 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:58 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 13:03 -!- iant [~iant@192.75.139.251] has joined #go-nuts 13:03 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 13:05 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.33.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05 -!- idr0 [~idr@g229048007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:15 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has joined #go-nuts 13:16 < fuzzybyte> does there exist Abs() function for integers? I could only find Fabs in math which was for floats. 13:17 < nsf> if a < 0 { a = -a }? 13:18 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20 < fuzzybyte> yes of course, but C had one for integers too built-in, but not Go? 13:21 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:22 < nsf> I guess there is no point in having one 13:22 < Namegduf> Go doesn't have one, no, because it's a relatively easy operation. 13:22 < fuzzybyte> ok. 13:26 < nsf> http://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=blob;f=stdlib/abs.c 13:26 < nsf> this is how it's implemented in glibc 13:27 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 13:27 < nsf> so I was right, there is no point in having it as a library function 13:31 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 13:37 < wrtp> you could always do it branch-free: (x ^ y) - y 13:37 -!- rickard2 [~rickard@netra.esec.du.se] has joined #go-nuts 13:38 < wrtp> fuzzybyte: but that's a bit tricksy 13:38 -!- rickard8 [rickard@v-412-ostermalm-206.bitnet.nu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:39 < wrtp> oops, what i meant as 13:39 < wrtp> was 13:39 < wrtp> func abc(a int) {b := a >> 31; return (a ^ b) - b} 13:40 < wrtp> s/abc(a int)/abs(a int) int/ 13:40 < fuzzybyte> )) 13:43 < fuzzybyte> abs() is trivial, but I don't like recoding the wheel everytime if necessary. 13:44 -!- devrim [~Adium@cpe-72-225-239-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44 < yiyus> c'mon, this is not what I'd call a wheel 13:45 < bortzmeyer> Why Go has a * operator when it is trivial to recode it with + ? 13:46 < fuzzybyte> heh 13:50 < xash> Because * is a processor supported operation ;-) 13:53 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@71.16.235.2] has joined #go-nuts 13:56 -!- dj2 [~dj2@216.16.242.254] has joined #go-nuts 14:00 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 14:04 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:08 -!- tasosos 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[~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 14:54 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 14:55 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:56 -!- devrim [~Adium@rrcs-184-75-52-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:56 -!- devrim [~Adium@rrcs-184-75-52-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:20 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has joined #go-nuts 15:28 -!- Fish [~Fish@86.65.182.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 15:32 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:38 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@71.16.235.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gksmM by [Russ Cox] in go/doc/ -- install doc: arm is a little better 15:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gksmY by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/src/ -- gc, runtime: copy([]byte, string) 15:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gksno by [Russ Cox] in go/test/ -- test copy([]byte, string) 15:48 -!- devrim [~Adium@rrcs-184-75-52-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:48 -!- devrim [~Adium@rrcs-184-75-52-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49 -!- devrim [~Adium@rrcs-184-75-52-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:52 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 15:52 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:58 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 16:00 -!- xash [~xash@d025091.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:00 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 16:00 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05 < uriel> bleh, googlegroups spam filters are so totally useless 16:06 < uriel> same piece of spam made it into every group I'm on 16:11 < TheSeeker> What about the 3 million other spam messages that didn't make it to any of them? 16:14 -!- eikenberry [~jae@ivanova.zhar.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:18 < uriel> what about them? i don't get spam from any other mailing lists 16:24 < TheSeeker> My point is you say the spam filter is useless because *A* spam message got through. not perfect is not useless. 16:25 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26 < Namegduf> No, he's saying it's useless because it should have guessed that an email sent to many different groups was spam reliably, as it's an obvious sign. 16:38 -!- idr [~idr@g229048007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:45 -!- tobel [~tobel@pD9E8A584.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:45 -!- tobel [~tobel@pD9E8A584.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45 -!- tobel [~tobel@pD9E8A584.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:46 -!- tobel 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[~Adium@rrcs-184-75-52-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:40 -!- enherit [~enherit@cpe-98-149-170-48.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:57 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@pd907c9d7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:00 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:00 -!- wjlroe [~will@212.169.34.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03 -!- tvw [~tv@e176000205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:03 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:04 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d2e3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:17 -!- IRWolfie1 [irwolfie@69.162.126.237] has joined #go-nuts 19:18 -!- Altercation [~Altercati@pdpc/supporter/active/altercation] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:18 -!- IRWolfie- [irwolfie@ircnoob.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:18 -!- Altercation [~Altercati@pdpc/supporter/active/altercation] has joined #go-nuts 19:19 -!- Archwyrm [~archwyrm@archwyrm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:19 -!- Archwyrm [~archwyrm@archwyrm.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:23 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-65-196.btc-net.bg] has joined #go-nuts 19:26 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-106-208.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29 -!- calif [~calif@aehz209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #go-nuts 19:29 < calif> Hello! 19:29 < calif> Are there anybody from Poland? Please write to me. :) 19:31 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.198.84] has joined #go-nuts 19:32 < calif> Are there anybody from Poland? Please write to me. :) 19:32 -!- calif [~calif@aehz209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.29.2] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 19:40 -!- wjlroe [~will@78-86-14-131.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 19:43 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has joined #go-nuts 19:43 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-129-26.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:44 -!- tvw [~tv@e176000205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:47 -!- im2ee [~calif@aehz209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #go-nuts 19:47 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48 < im2ee> Hello! Are there anybody from Poland? Please write me as fast as it's possible. I've interesting informations for polish Go programmers (for beginners and advenced). 19:48 < im2ee> *advanced 19:49 < skelterjohn> oh it's too bad - calif was just here and you could have talked to him/her 19:50 <+iant> came in from the same IP address too, how odd 19:50 < skelterjohn> small world! 19:50 < im2ee> It was I. I registred new nickname, because I was not sure that my messages come - sorry for problem. 19:51 < im2ee> Do you know any polish Go programmers? 19:51 * skelterjohn is shocked 19:51 < skelterjohn> and, no, i don't 19:52 -!- ako [~nya@fuld-4d00d0f1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:52 < im2ee> skelterjohn - why You are shocked? :) 19:53 < TheMue> Why does it explicitely has to be Poland? Aren't we one great family? ;) 19:55 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d2e3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55 < im2ee> Yes, We are one great family, but I would like to expand Go in Poland. :) 19:55 <+iant> im2ee: see http://golang.pl/ 19:55 < im2ee> It's good idea, i think. :) 19:55 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:55 < fuzzybyte> lol, golang.pl 19:55 < im2ee> golang.pl - it's Language school. :) 19:56 < exch> They should add Go to the curriculum :p 19:56 < im2ee> iant: maybe you mean golang.org.pl ? 19:57 <+iant> yeah 19:57 <+iant> sorry 19:58 < im2ee> I know guy who is administrator of this site. I met him just now. 19:58 < im2ee> But i need more people. :) 19:59 < im2ee> I'll show Go polish programmers, because people don't heard about it a lot. 19:59 < im2ee> If I make any mistakes, please correct me, ok? :) 20:01 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has joined #go-nuts 20:04 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-152-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 20:05 < impl> im2ee: did you decide to send me a PM because my name ends in 'pl' or are you just mass-PMing everyone? 20:08 < im2ee> Hmm, I write to You, because i chose some people from "names" list, and I wrote to them, sorry if it's problem. :) 20:09 < kimelto> impl: you're a lucky man. you may want to take your chance at the national lottery, eh. 20:09 < im2ee> :) 20:11 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11 -!- gastal [~gastal@187.106.43.200] has joined #go-nuts 20:14 < gastal> I wrote a server(http://pastebin.com/zMeZ3KFK) and a client(http://pastebin.com/gGjs2WNy), however as soon as the client connect I get an err == os.EOF from Read() on the server. What I'm doing wrong? 20:17 < KBme> gastal: did you check if read had any data in it? 20:18 < gastal> KBme: it returns a 0 20:22 < gastal> and read is indeed empty 20:23 < KBme> i don't know c well enough 20:23 < KBme> what is that memset? 20:24 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@5634798d.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 20:24 < KBme> ah i see 20:24 < gastal> KBme: it sets every byte on server_addr.sin_zero to 0 20:24 < gastal> the client works with a C server 20:26 < MaksimBurnin> fills n(3-rd param) bytes of memory at address(1st param) with some char(second param) 20:26 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@2001:6f8:12c6:1c86:224:1dff:fed7:9541] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27 < KBme> yea man memset did it 20:29 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@2001:6f8:12c6:1c86:224:1dff:fed7:9541] has joined #go-nuts 20:31 * KBme clueless :( 20:31 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has joined #go-nuts 20:31 < gastal> KBme: well, thansk for trying, =/ 20:31 < KBme> gastal: check n at all? 20:31 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:31 < KBme> how much is n? 20:32 < gastal> n == 0 20:32 < KBme> hopefully someone smarter than I comes around ;) 20:33 < MaksimBurnin> how much is "sent"? 20:33 < gastal> sent == 6 20:37 < MaksimBurnin> did you tried without SetKeepAlive? i am sure about it ) 20:38 < gastal> MaksimBurnin: just did, no change.... 20:39 < KBme> gastal: try closing the socket without deferring? 20:39 < KBme> (probably not, russian roulette) 20:40 < gastal> KBme: I tried not closing the socket at all, no change, =) 20:40 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@conference/ubuntudevelopersummit/x-ftrgzqcbyjijwikp] has joined #go-nuts 20:40 < KBme> heh 20:40 < KBme> dammit it must be obvious.. 20:41 < gastal> KBme: I've been thinking the same thing for 2 days 20:42 < TheSeeker> Was there ever an official response to the pair of articles on cowlark.com about Go late last year? 20:42 < TheSeeker> http://www.cowlark.com/2009-11-15-go/ & http://www.cowlark.com/2009-11-21-go-going-forward/ 20:43 < KBme> gastal: argh 20:45 < Namegduf> "On November 10 2009, Google announced the release of a new programming language that a internal group had been working on: Go. (Although its name might change to Issue 9 real soon now.)" 20:45 < Namegduf> Blogging reputability revoked, not reading any further. 20:50 < MaksimBurnin> did you trien telnet as a client? 20:50 < MaksimBurnin> tried* 20:50 < Namegduf> Why would these need an official response? 20:51 < gastal> MaksimBurnin: yes, same thing, connection is closed instantly 20:51 < Namegduf> It looks like just another person who thinks people extra specially care about their opinions on things, regardless of whether they're with proposals. 20:51 < MaksimBurnin> so the problem is is server side... 20:52 < gastal> oh yeah 20:52 < Namegduf> Their second post HAS proposals, but it acknowledges that generics are "hard" to implement, and the type inference one is more a "this would be really cool and another language I like has it" than a "this would make things better" thing. 20:53 < MaksimBurnin> did you tried "handleClient(c)" intead of "go handleClient(c)" just guessing ) 20:53 < gastal> MaksimBurnin: yep, that's one of the fist things I tought might be wrong 20:53 < uriel> TheSeeker: those 'articles' were IMHO too misinformed and misguided to be worth answering 20:55 < TheSeeker> ok 20:55 -!- im2ee [~calif@aehz209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55 < Namegduf> The things they propose have already been mentioned on the mailing list. 20:56 < Namegduf> If you want to know thoughts on them from various sources, including devs, I suggest looking there. 20:56 < MaksimBurnin> gastal: ugh, c.Read(read) 20:57 < MaksimBurnin> c.Read(&read) 20:57 < KBme> ahhh 20:57 * TheSeeker hates pointers 20:57 < gastal> server.go:30: cannot use &read (type *[]uint8) as type []uint8 in function argument 20:57 < MaksimBurnin> :-D lol its so obviously 20:57 < Namegduf> It's c.Read(read) 20:58 < Namegduf> You already have a slice. 20:58 < Namegduf> I think. 20:58 < KBme> no 20:58 < KBme> you have to *make* slices 20:58 < KBme> that's it 20:58 < KBme> works no for me 20:58 < KBme> read := make([]byte, 6) 20:58 < KBme> works 20:59 < KBme> then c.Read(read) //is fine 20:59 < gastal> KBme: thanks, it works! 20:59 < KBme> i know 20:59 < KBme> ☺ 20:59 < MaksimBurnin> or if you need array, var read [1024]byte;c.Read(&read) 20:59 < KBme> yes 20:59 < gastal> but how can I make a slice of variable size? 21:00 < KBme> but slices and maps have to be *make*-d 21:00 < gastal> or can't I do that? 21:00 < KBme> no, you can't 21:00 < KBme> a slice always has an array in the backend 21:00 < KBme> it's not a linked list 21:00 < KBme> er, i think that terminology is fallacious, but anyways 21:01 -!- pers3us [~perseus@14.96.112.23] has joined #go-nuts 21:01 < gastal> ok, so I'll have to handle the buffer manually, still thank you very much, I'd been stuck on that for days! 21:01 < KBme> gastal: use the bufio package 21:01 < KBme> gastal: no, use the bufio package 21:02 < gastal> KBme: thanks, I'll look into it 21:03 < KBme> np 21:04 < MaksimBurnin> why did go not returned a compiler error? i wrote about 50 lines of go code for all time;) so i am interested in this answer 21:04 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 21:09 -!- tvw [~tv@e176000205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14 < gastal> MaksimBurnin: why would the compiler return an error? I gave it the right type of variable, my mistake was not properly initializing it. 21:16 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@2001:6f8:12c6:1c86:224:1dff:fed7:9541] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 21:17 < MaksimBurnin> yes you are right. devenantly. i need to go sleep is 3:18am ;) but why os.EOF then. is it "thrown" only when you "out of buffer" ? 21:17 < skelterjohn> knowing if a particular variable can have a nil value when passed to a function is np-hard (for most languages) 21:18 < gastal> I don't know exactly when it sends os.EOF..... 21:19 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@pd907c9d7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 21:19 < MaksimBurnin> some languaget throw "NullPoinerException" and you know exactly what you done wrong 21:19 -!- devrim [~Adium@rrcs-184-75-52-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:20 -!- dj2 [~dj2@216.16.242.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20 < skelterjohn> err, when i said NP-hard i meant impossible 21:20 < skelterjohn> reduces to the halting problem, not to an NP-complete problem 21:20 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:21 < gastal> skelterjohn: how does it reduce to the halting problem? 21:21 < gastal> (which is indeed impossible) 21:21 < skelterjohn> pretend the statement "myvar = nil" is really "halt()" 21:21 < skelterjohn> deciding whether or not any particular instruction will be executed -> halting problem 21:22 < Namegduf> Too simplistic. 21:22 < Namegduf> It doesn't need to verify that it halts, just that it can't. 21:23 < gastal> myvar = nil, has only one possible result, halt() has two possible result, I don't think your analogy works 21:23 < skelterjohn> halt() has two possible results? 21:23 < skelterjohn> Namegduf: certainly you can answer the question without false negatives 21:23 < skelterjohn> but that is a different problem 21:23 < gastal> unless I missunderstood, halt() returns true or false, whether it should halt or not.... 21:23 < skelterjohn> no - i meant halt() halts the program 21:24 < skelterjohn> if that instruction is executed, the program halts 21:25 < gastal> ok, I can see that, and tough I can't see the flaw in your logic, as a longtime C programmer I very used to checking for null(nil) values. So why can I do it in C but not go? 21:26 < skelterjohn> you can know at runtime, of course 21:26 < skelterjohn> but we're talking about compile time 21:26 < skelterjohn> that is, a compiler error that tells you if you're passing nil to a function by accident 21:27 < Namegduf> It's a pity non-nil pointers weren't discussed on the mailing list in excuriating length, including implementation ideas. 21:27 < skelterjohn> like Namegduf suggests, you can often tell that nil will not be passed 21:27 < gastal> skelterjohn: right, sorry 21:27 < Namegduf> (None of which worked without destroying the language, baically) 21:29 < gastal> Namegduf: the existence of nil pointers is indeed somewhat anachornistc for a language that tries to be so modern 21:30 < skelterjohn> just because a feature is new doesn't mean it's critical 21:30 < gastal> *anachronistic 21:30 < Namegduf> gastal: That means there must be a better option, right? 21:30 < Namegduf> Including a clear way to implement it that's an improvement on the existing language? 21:30 < skelterjohn> go isn't intended to be a feature-rich language 21:30 < Tonnerre> It's just accidentally so 21:30 < Namegduf> If you're making that claim, then I suggest you write a complete proposal and send it to the mailing list. 21:30 < skelterjohn> features are only added if it is absolutely clear that they should be 21:30 < gastal> Namegduf: no, it means nil pointers are a very old concept 21:31 < skelterjohn> as old as pointers, even 21:31 < gastal> and that I would've tought someone would have come up with something better by now 21:31 < gastal> but I having no experience with language design I don't have a proposal that would improve anything..... 21:32 < skelterjohn> well, it's not a crime to point out a problem and not have a solution 21:32 < skelterjohn> even though Namegduf implies otherwise :) 21:32 < Namegduf> It is if said problem is just a "this is not as good as it could be" kind of thing. 21:33 < Namegduf> If you're pointing out something is suboptimal, you ought to have an optimal state to suggest. 21:33 < skelterjohn> i disagree 21:33 < gastal> =) 21:33 < Namegduf> With my first sentence, or the second? The second is kind-of true by definition 21:34 < skelterjohn> kind-of 21:34 < Namegduf> Something cannot be suboptimal unless there is a more optimal state, and I'm dubious that you could know a more optimal state exists without being able to describe it. 21:34 < skelterjohn> but often the complaint is "i don't like nil pointers because i get nil pointer errors" 21:34 < skelterjohn> the improvement would be to not have nil pointer errors 21:34 < Namegduf> Complaints are useless. 21:34 < Namegduf> And unconstructive. 21:34 < skelterjohn> but that suggestion of something better is non constructive 21:35 < skelterjohn> complaints are not useless 21:35 < skelterjohn> helps people know what parts of teh language frustrate the users 21:35 < Namegduf> Suggestions are useful. Complaints are spam in my inbox. 21:36 < Namegduf> Unless they actually offer some new information, which is rare. 21:36 < MaksimBurnin> skelterjohn: "i don't like nil pointers because i get os.EOF, not an NullPointer error" :-D 21:36 < MaksimBurnin> or so 21:36 < skelterjohn> i don't think taht nil pointers are the problem in that situation, really 21:36 < skelterjohn> i think that os.EOF is not really a useful error in that context 21:37 < skelterjohn> an empty buffer isn't the same as no buffer 21:37 < MaksimBurnin> yes, indeed 21:38 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40 < MaksimBurnin> it looks like go thinks length of not "maken" slice == 0 21:40 < skelterjohn> i don't follow 21:40 < MaksimBurnin> but i am not sure 21:40 < Namegduf> By "not "maken"", do you mean "nil"? 21:40 < skelterjohn> oh - len([]type{}) -> 0 of course 21:41 < skelterjohn> and []type{} is what is in a "var myslice []type" without initializing? 21:41 < skelterjohn> but if you have var mySlicePtr *[]type = nil; len(mySlicePtr) 21:41 < skelterjohn> i think that would go wrong 21:43 < MaksimBurnin> yes u are right. now i am understad the reason why go returnc os.EOF. thanks :-D 21:45 < Namegduf> skelterjohn: Considering it, I think the problem with "the improvement would be to not have nil pointer errors" is that the implications and implementation of the idea are too ill-defined to be able to say whether it's an improvement or not. 21:45 < skelterjohn> yes - requires thought beyond identification of the problem 21:46 < skelterjohn> i can imagine a world where the devs don't care about NPEs because they're too sharp at coding to run into them 21:46 < skelterjohn> and the users are too dumb to avoid them, and cannot come up with a good change to improve their situation 21:47 < skelterjohn> therefore the user mentions that they are having a bad experience, and the devs now know what the users would like to have fixed/changed 21:47 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47 < Namegduf> The problem there is that it's only interesting to hear about the first time. 21:47 < skelterjohn> sure 21:48 < Namegduf> Also, whenever these statements are accompanied by statements about how things "should" be. 21:48 < Namegduf> Which are not thought out or associated with a proposal of some sort. 21:49 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-49-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:50 < skelterjohn> i will concede that these comments are not as useful as they could be 21:54 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has joined #go-nuts 21:56 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-96-226-238-248.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:58 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-142gfrf.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:01 -!- devrim [~Adium@nat/ibm/x-kiyasgxfbdtymjpv] has joined #go-nuts 22:03 -!- devrim [~Adium@nat/ibm/x-kiyasgxfbdtymjpv] has quit [Client Quit] 22:05 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@conference/ubuntudevelopersummit/x-ftrgzqcbyjijwikp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:13 -!- gastal [~gastal@187.106.43.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23 -!- iant [~iant@192.75.139.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-tddpsgbqdpreggaj] has joined #go-nuts 22:24 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 22:26 -!- idr0 [~idr@g229048007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-142gfrf.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:45 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-tddpsgbqdpreggaj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:47 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:57 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-sycbazihiznoqhba] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.14/20101001164112]] 23:06 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 23:22 -!- tasosos [~tasosos@188.4.26.132.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25 -!- tasosos [~tasosos@77.49.125.109.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #go-nuts 23:26 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32 -!- tasosos [~tasosos@77.49.125.109.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33 -!- tasosos [~tasosos@77.49.23.167.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #go-nuts 23:43 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.198.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:46 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gldwe by [Nigel Tao] in go/src/pkg/gob/ -- gob: package doc fixes. 23:55 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.176.108.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts --- Log closed Wed Oct 27 00:00:13 2010