--- Log opened Wed Nov 17 00:00:16 2010 00:07 -!- noktoborus [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:10 < enferex> I want to loop on all the lines in a file, I want to test my err condition that retrns from ReadString(). Of course: "for line, err := input.ReadString('\n')" is not a valid condition. Is there some other idiom that I can use that I amnot aware of. I dont want to "break" out of the loop. I want it to terminate on the condition. 00:11 < uriel> what is the difference between "break" and "terminate"? 00:11 < enferex> I was hoping to do something more like the traditional read() 00:11 < uriel> and I think what you want is line, err := ...; err != nil; ... 00:11 < enferex> uriel: yes 00:12 < enferex> yup 00:12 < enferex> thanks 00:23 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has joined #go-nuts 00:24 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-iymepkgfsewpfldq] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.104.238] has joined #go-nuts 00:31 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 00:33 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:34 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-nhsgxvsxhefwzhla] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:38 -!- Tv [~tv@gige.bur.digisynd.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47 -!- binarypie [~binarypie@adsl-99-20-131-253.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@58.61.201.129] has joined #go-nuts 00:56 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-200-114-63.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:57 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-200-114-63.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:01 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-164-12.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:03 < enferex> uriel: Oddly, my condition is not even executing the loop. "for line, err := input.ReadString('\n'); err!=nil; { ... } 01:04 < skelterjohn> you probably want "for l, e := input.ReadString('\n'); e!=nil; l, e = input.ReadString('\n') { ... } 01:04 < skelterjohn> otherwise you will only readstring once, at the beginning 01:04 < enferex> if I do "for { line, err := input.ReadLine('\n'); if err != nil { break; } }" it works fine 01:04 < enferex> yeah 01:04 < enferex> ok that makes sense 01:05 < skelterjohn> the way you just said is probably a nicer way to write it, though 01:05 < skelterjohn> no reason to have the same piece of code in two spots if you can help it 01:05 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:05 < enferex> skelterjohn: yeah 01:06 < skelterjohn> note: you don't need the semicolon after "break" 01:06 < enferex> yup 01:06 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 01:08 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.33.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has joined #go-nuts 01:13 -!- cco3 [~conley@c-69-181-138-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:15 -!- SoniaKeys [~soniakeys@c-76-118-178-209.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:17 -!- Tv [~tv@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:30 -!- devrim [~Adium@160.79.7.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:35 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@232.80-203-20.nextgentel.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:40 -!- tav [~tav@92.7.137.44] has quit [Quit: tav] 01:41 -!- tav [~tav@92.7.137.44] has joined #go-nuts 01:43 -!- b00m_chef [~watr@66.183.108.186] has joined #go-nuts 01:43 -!- enherit [~enherit@cpe-98-149-170-48.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:44 < enferex> Odd, I have a string "42" and when I convert it to an int via strconv.Atoi() I get an error: ": invalid argument" as if the newline character was not ignored 01:45 < cbeck> It isn't 01:46 < cbeck> Need to strings.TrimSpace() or the like first 01:46 < enferex> yup 01:47 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-98-219-171.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:51 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 01:51 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189-10-175-46.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57 -!- philth [~philth@d24-235-136-68.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:06 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.104.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:07 -!- frank [~fstephen2@bas1-brampton13-1177785513.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #go-nuts 02:09 -!- frank [~fstephen2@bas1-brampton13-1177785513.dsl.bell.ca] has left #go-nuts [] 02:14 -!- Maxdamantus [~m@203.97.238.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:18 -!- danslo [~daniel@s5593965d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:25 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 02:32 -!- jeff2 [~sername@c-98-210-113-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:02 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-98-219-171.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 03:04 -!- b00m_chef [~watr@66.183.108.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:06 -!- Maxdamantus [~m@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:12 < enferex> Hmm, I just want to run the set of benchmarks and using "gomake bench" is not performing this. I see the bench target in Make.pkg 03:13 < |Craig|> enferex: I think you pass a bench flag to gotest or something like that. I havent done it though, I just saw in in the docs a few days ago 03:14 < enferex> yeah but it requires a makefile 03:14 < enferex> |Craig|: I figured there would already be a benchmark makefile for the gotest tool 03:24 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-98-219-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:25 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-98-219-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:34 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:34 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 03:44 -!- jeff2 [~sername@c-98-210-113-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:01 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-98-219-171.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:02 -!- devrim [~Adium@cpe-72-225-239-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:05 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-98-219-171.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-98-219-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:09 -!- museun [~what@c-76-122-126-43.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:09 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d288.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:14 -!- slashus2_ [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:15 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:18 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:29 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 04:31 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 04:33 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:52 -!- SoniaKeys [~soniakeys@c-76-118-178-209.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:55 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:58 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has joined #go-nuts 05:18 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@5634798d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 05:19 -!- devrim [~Adium@cpe-72-225-239-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:19 -!- devrim [~Adium@cpe-72-225-239-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 05:20 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:36 -!- brighteyed [59ff4f3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.255.79.62] has joined #go-nuts 05:42 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:42 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 05:43 -!- watr_ [~watr@66.183.108.186] has joined #go-nuts 05:51 -!- captn1 [~root@pD9FE2674.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:52 -!- matti___ [~mumboww@c-98-207-108-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:53 -!- captn [~root@p4FDCBC9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:56 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has joined #go-nuts 06:05 -!- pingveno [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:07 -!- pingveno [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:10 < matti___> where can i find what '%02x' means for the following line? 06:10 < matti___> fmt.Sprintf("%02x", hash.Sum()) 06:11 < |Craig|> matti___: its one of those crazy formatting strings that says how to format the number as text, but I don't know how to find out what that particular one means 06:12 <+iant> matti___: http://golang.org/pkg/fmt/ 06:13 < matti___> iant: thanks 06:20 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has joined #go-nuts 06:23 -!- eikenberry [~jae@ivanova.zhar.net] has quit [Quit: End of line.] 06:25 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:28 < TheSeeker> hmmm http://wiki.netbeans.org/How_to_create_support_for_a_new_language 06:28 < TheSeeker> I guess if nobody else is going to do it... 06:33 -!- Tv [~tv@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:37 -!- ako [~nya@fuld-4d00d7e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:38 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@232.80-203-20.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:38 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has joined #go-nuts 06:39 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d288.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has quit [Quit: "Back to the Real World."] 07:15 < TheSeeker> ah, looks like someone's already on it. https://code.launchpad.net/nutbean 07:16 < |Craig|> I think I've found a case where I really would like some kind of generics in Go. I've got a design for an unordered collection optimized for sequential memory access (meaning fast fetches when iterating), adding and removing items, but I can't implement it for arbitrary types. 07:22 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.33.48] has joined #go-nuts 07:22 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:24 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 07:28 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 07:30 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@5634798d.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 07:35 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has joined #go-nuts 07:38 -!- drd [~eric@compassing.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:38 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@58.61.201.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:43 < TheSeeker> launchpad uses ... bazaar? what's that? :| yet another @#%! dcvs? 07:44 -!- tobel [~tobel@pD9E8B9D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:45 -!- tobel [~tobel@pD9E8B9D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:47 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:48 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@p5DF1C827.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:50 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:52 < cbeck> A really slow one, at that 07:56 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@58.61.201.77] has joined #go-nuts 08:00 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has joined #go-nuts 08:02 < drd> easy way to write []uint16 to stdout? 08:05 < drd> eg, some way to cast to []byte? 08:08 < TheSeeker> string(uint16[:]) doesn't work I take it? 08:08 < Namegduf> What would you mean by such a cast? 08:08 < drd> Namegduf, i'm trying to write the array to stdout as binary data 08:09 < Namegduf> In general, writing arbitrary data to stdout requires unsafe, because it is. 08:10 < Namegduf> Such data will not be portable across architectures. 08:10 < drd> Namegduf, true 08:10 < Namegduf> You will need to use that. 08:10 -!- krutcha [~ceekay@S010600045a27676a.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:10 < Namegduf> And be aware, from being made to use that, that what you're doing is non-portable. 08:11 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-204-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 08:11 < drd> Namegduf: fair 08:12 < krutcha> does the go compiler accept global defines via -D or something similar? 08:12 < TheSeeker> hmm, I was using fmt.Print(string(buf[:len-1])) to echo packets sent to my test program to the screen (-1 to skip the newline netcat sends too) ... that didn't require unsafe. 08:12 < Namegduf> No, it does not. 08:12 < Namegduf> TheSeeker: Was buf uint8 or uint16? 08:13 < Namegduf> uint8 == byte == directly convertable to string, safely. 08:13 < TheSeeker> ah 08:13 < TheSeeker> that makes sense. 08:14 < Namegduf> uint8, specifically, doesn't have the endian and "what precisely do you mean by that; interpret as Unicode characters or as pairs of bytes issues. 08:14 < drd> woo, os.Stdout.Write(*(*[]uint8)(unsafe.Pointer(&buffer[currBuffer]))); 08:14 < drd> Go wants you to know what you're doing is considered ugly :) 08:14 < TheSeeker> though, not sure why []uint16 to string wouldn't be just as safe. 08:14 < Namegduf> Because it isn't portable. 08:14 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: brighteyed 08:14 < Namegduf> Or, rather, writing it out directly isn't portable. 08:14 < TheSeeker> oh, right, endieness 08:14 < Namegduf> Endianness. 08:14 < Namegduf> You could impose a fixed interpretation, as int has. 08:14 < TheSeeker> ianieniandian 08:15 < Namegduf> int is always interpreted as a character, not as arbitrary data. 08:15 < Namegduf> You could do the same with uint16, hypothetically. 08:15 < Namegduf> It would not be printing the same thing, though. 08:15 < |Craig|> I wonder if I can get a sort of generic collection by symlinking a source file into a bunch of identically named packages in different directories which also contain a config source file that defines a structure that contains the type I want my collection to hold, and any other needed config constants. 08:16 < Namegduf> |Craig|: Compile-time code generation is quite possible, although I don't know that I'd do it that way. 08:16 < Namegduf> You could just use gofmt 08:17 < Namegduf> Take vector.go and generate vector-int.go and friends from it by search-and-replacing the type in the base vector with the desired type. 08:17 < Namegduf> drd: Go wants where things are unsafe to be obvious, so they're easily managed and observed in future development. 08:17 < Namegduf> Explicit casts and unsafe, I like it myself. 08:19 < TheSeeker> So you can search for "unsafe" in all the public code, and see what kinds of things should be made safe to clean up the most mess ? :) 08:19 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 08:20 < |Craig|> Namegduf: what I implemented is basically an unordered vector with different optimization priorities. I don't think I can use casts as the whole point of my structure it to avoid randomly placed in memory allocation by actually placing the items in an array (not pointers in an array) 08:20 < |Craig|> its a linked list of arrays acting as a unordered collection 08:21 < Namegduf> |Craig|: Not casts. 08:21 < Namegduf> gofmt can search and replace one thing with another. 08:21 < Namegduf> And save the result as another file. 08:21 < |Craig|> Namegduf: yes, I know 08:21 < |Craig|> I was just commenting on your "Explicit casts and unsafe, I like it myself." 08:22 < Namegduf> That had nothing to do with your usecase. 08:22 < Namegduf> Not being able to use casts at all has no connection to implicit vs explicit casts where they are used, I mean. 08:23 < |Craig|> I auctually could make it using unsafe and casts I guess by basically using void* for pointing to my arrays 08:23 < |Craig|> interface {} 08:24 < drd> Namegduf: i don't mind it, i'm just not used to it as much. in fact i quite like go 08:24 < |Craig|> Add and remove would have to take the empty interface though, would prabably be a speed hit. using gofmt to gen code is prabably better 08:25 < Namegduf> It isn't generics, but it works in a pinch. 08:25 < Namegduf> Not too bad if the average project can restrain the amount of custom data structures it implements to a small percentage of its code, too. 08:27 < |Craig|> I think my custom data structure could be rather handy for anyone who wants high performance iteration over collections to which they add and remove stuff somewhat often. 08:29 < |Craig|> I wonder if it will actually benefit me at all though. I just made it because it seemed cool 08:30 < TheSeeker> Is it a package available on godashboard? 08:31 < |Craig|> nah, I just wrote it now, I havent even run it. I'm in design mode. 08:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: brighteyed 08:32 < |Craig|> The very first code written for my Go MMO server project (Because I need another project I won't finish) 08:32 < TheSeeker> ok, speaking in past tense made me think you had finished something :) 08:32 -!- willdye [~willdye@fern.dsndata.com] has joined #go-nuts 08:33 < TheSeeker> kindof like my very first code written for a go implementation of Freenet that will probably never get anywhere ... except mine's hardly more complex than 'hello world' over udp, and still fails x_x 08:34 < |Craig|> well, it compiles at least. http://dpaste.com/276305/ 08:35 < |Craig|> I roughed out my data sync model for the client today too. Python Client with Panda3D+Go Server :) 08:35 < TheSeeker> python :( 08:35 < |Craig|> python is awesome :) 08:35 < TheSeeker> write it in go :) 08:36 < |Craig|> nah, Panda3D has great python bindings, and I don't need the performance 08:36 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.79.101] has joined #go-nuts 08:37 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.79.101] has joined #go-nuts 08:38 < krutcha> does pkg net have any loopback facility for running basic _tests through net.Conn? 08:41 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.79.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:41 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:41 -!- willdye [~willdye@fern.dsndata.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42 -!- willdye [~willdye@fern.dsndata.com] has joined #go-nuts 08:43 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 08:44 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 08:56 -!- noktoborus_ [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/noktoborus] has joined #go-nuts 09:00 -!- tvw [~tv@e176007243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 09:01 -!- sahid [~sahid@LNeuilly-152-21-22-10.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:01 -!- tvw [~tv@e176007243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #go-nuts 09:02 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 09:02 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 09:09 < nsf> I'm wondering why conditional expression is optional in Go's grammar: 09:09 < nsf> IfStmt = "if" [ SimpleStmt ";" ] [ Expression ] Block [ "else" Statement ] . 09:09 < nsf> shouldn't it be: 09:10 < nsf> IfStmt = "if" [ SimpleStmt ";" ] Expression Block [ "else" Statement ] . 09:10 < nsf> I mean, that's the point of if statement.. 09:10 -!- willdye [~willdye@fern.dsndata.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11 -!- willdye [~willdye@fern.dsndata.com] has joined #go-nuts 09:12 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-204-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:12 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-204-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 09:12 < nsf> spec says that missing condition is equivalent to true, but what's the point, I don't get it 09:12 < nsf> :\ 09:17 < mpl> I wonder where does this tendency for one to spill his life/opinions on the go-nuts ML come from. I rarely see ppl doing that on the other MLs I'm following... 09:18 < nsf> go-nuts ML is a bit active lately, got 79 mails today 09:19 < nsf> mpl: I don't understand that either, people like to explain why Go should be something else, but what's the point.. like someone cares.. if you don't like it - it's opensource, Go and fork it 09:19 < nsf> :\ 09:20 < mpl> "I like go because this or that" or "my great thoughts on go are..." should go to a freaking blog, not to a technical ML. 09:20 < mpl> but yeah it's not like I can't ignore it. 09:20 < nsf> ah.. and that 09:20 < nsf> but it's less annoying 09:21 < nsf> I get annoyed more by people trying to fit Go into their needs saying that it misses absolutely critical features, etc. 09:22 < mpl> I think the recurrent questions of newcomers who can't be arsed to read one bit of documentation is what makes me cringe the most. but that's common to other MLs actually. 09:22 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d30f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:22 < nsf> yeah, I got used to it 09:23 < Gertm> I hope Go stays as clean and small as it is now. It's near perfect for me. 09:23 < mpl> I can understand ppl proposing features when it's really well thought and argumented and coming from someone with experience. but every newcomer proposing the same things all over again because it's in python or whatever is a bit tiring. 09:24 < wrtp> nsf: i tend to agree with you about optional conditional expression in an if 09:24 -!- ako [~nya@fuld-4d00d7e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:24 < Gertm> People need to learn the idioms before trying to change the rules of the game. I think a lot of them expect Go to be python with braces or something. 09:25 < mpl> like the freaking generics argument. ppl should read what's been said about it previously, and only if they have something new to bring to the discussion then bring the subject back up again. 09:25 < nsf> well, I have a lot of opinions about how Go should look like, but I (as a developer) understand that talks are cheap, someone should implement all these ideas and if I'm not ready to do it myself, then I'll better be silent 09:25 * wrtp thinks it's important that the arguments are reiterated - it's about raising shared awareness of how the language works... and is intended to work. 09:26 < mpl> nsf: totally agreed. 09:26 < wrtp> even though it's annoying too 09:26 < Gertm> wrtp: a good FAQ would help too :) 09:26 < wrtp> yeah, an FAQ that actually answered the questions that people ask would be good 09:27 < mpl> wrtp: that's why there's documentation and google groups that one can read back. 09:27 < mpl> I wonder how the core team actually gets any work done if they actually read every single mail that goes through the ML. 09:27 < Gertm> yeah, I'm having troubles keeping up 09:28 < nsf> mpl: they don't read mail :D 09:28 < nsf> Rob Pike said that few times in his talks 09:29 < nsf> well, I mean you don't have to read mail every 30 minuts 09:29 < mpl> nsf: well, they answer often enough that they must read most of it. 09:29 < nsf> once in a day is fine 09:30 < nsf> well, I don't know 09:30 < nsf> reading mail don't take too much time 09:30 < mpl> at least russ, iant and adg 09:33 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@58.61.201.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:34 < nsf> wrtp: btw, non-recursive make still waits for you :) 09:34 < wrtp> nsf: go on then 09:34 < nsf> personally I've lost interest to that idea 09:34 < wrtp> why? 09:34 < nsf> but I don't know 09:34 < nsf> well, there are few bad sides 09:35 < wrtp> the idea of automatically transforming the standard makefiles, or non-recursive make in general? 09:35 < nsf> and giving the fact that go compiles very fast, the good sides aren't that good 09:35 < nsf> wrtp: it's not automatic 09:35 < wrtp> oh, i thought that's what your templates were doing 09:35 < nsf> it can't be done 100% in an automatic way 09:36 < nsf> but I had converted all go lib makefiles in two days 09:36 < nsf> that's not the problem, my non-recursive makefile templates are more or less compatible with existing ones 09:36 < wrtp> what are the bad sides then? 09:36 < nsf> like there is still TARG and GOFILES 09:37 < nsf> maintainance cost is higher 09:37 < nsf> because each target shares variables namespace with others 09:37 < nsf> for example 09:37 < nsf> some go libs have this thing: GOOS_windows GOOS_linux 09:37 < wrtp> ah, that's an interesting point 09:37 < nsf> oops 09:37 < nsf> I mean something like CFLAGS_windows CFLAGS_linux 09:38 < nsf> and then: CFLAGS+=CFLAGS_$(GOOS) 09:38 < nsf> but the next package defines let's say only CFLAGS_windows 09:38 < nsf> and on linux it gets this var from the previous package :) 09:38 < nsf> there are not so many cases like that, I was able to fix them all pretty quickly though 09:39 < wrtp> i still think that a good initial approach would be to have an automatic dependency analysis and just run make in the dirs that need it 09:39 < nsf> but what it means, that you have to thing about these 09:39 < wrtp> not changing the system makefiles at all 09:39 < nsf> it's not possible 09:39 < wrtp> no? 09:39 < nsf> you have to change them one way or another 09:39 < nsf> at least prefixing $(curdir) everywhere 09:39 < wrtp> i'm pretty sure it's possible 09:40 < wrtp> the analysis can be conservative 09:40 < nsf> because if you want to track all packages in a single deps tree, you have to use paths relative to single directory 09:40 < wrtp> so it might run make more times than necessary, but that doesn't matter too much 09:40 < wrtp> why's that? 09:40 < nsf> anyways, I have a small tarball for you that includes: templates, converted makefiles for few packages 09:41 < nsf> wrtp: because, you can't change current directory 09:41 < nsf> within make 09:41 < wrtp> you don't need to 09:41 < nsf> then how would you track dependencies? 09:41 < wrtp> i'd use a separate tool 09:42 < wrtp> it might analyse source files, or it might analyse makefiles 09:42 < wrtp> i think it'd have to analyse source files actually, but that's pretty quick 09:42 < nsf> so, you're proposing adding another tool on top of make to figure out what is out-dated 09:42 < wrtp> yeah 09:42 < nsf> and run make in these dirs? 09:42 < wrtp> yup 09:42 < nsf> well, that's not what I was planning to do 09:43 < wrtp> the point is not to speed things up, but to scratch my itch, which is that i can't automatically recompile things a particular command depends on 09:43 < wrtp> without running all.bash, or manually running make in the directories that need it 09:43 < wrtp> all.bash is much slower than need-be 09:43 < nsf> it can be done with make :) 09:44 < wrtp> probably 09:44 < nsf> but only using non-recursive approach 09:44 < wrtp> you pointed out some of the shortcomings of that approach. 09:44 < nsf> http://ompldr.org/vNjdjdg/non-recursive.tar.bz2 09:45 < nsf> anyway, here's the small tarball 09:45 < nsf> (200kb) 09:45 < nsf> it shows how it may look like 09:45 < wrtp> i reckon about 100 or so lines of go code should do the job 09:45 < nsf> includes a very complex package runtime which is converted to non-recursive thing 09:45 < nsf> package "runtime"* 09:46 < nsf> see all.bash here as well, I use ROOT instead of GOROOT, well, it's just an example 09:46 < nsf> no dependency generation yet 09:47 < nsf> generating dependencies for Go isn't hard, having a good tool to build stuff is a problem 09:47 < nsf> maintaining makefiles is a problem too 09:47 < TheSeeker> making go without bash would be nice. not possible? 09:48 < nsf> eventually it is possible, yes 09:48 < nsf> my all.bash and clean.bash are 3 lines of code 09:48 < nsf> mine* 09:49 < nsf> purely documentational purpose, show you that you have to set ROOT env var :) 09:49 < TheSeeker> mingw has make, but posixy stuff is *bleh* on windows. :| 09:49 < wrtp> what about commands? 09:49 < nsf> commands? 09:52 < nsf> also there is another problem 09:53 < nsf> for example these templates require make 3.81 or newer 09:53 < nsf> it's not the latest version, the latest is 3.82 09:53 < nsf> but still, for some people it will be a problem 09:55 < TheSeeker> GNU Make 3.82 09:55 < TheSeeker> Built for x86_64-w64-mingw32 09:55 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55 < TheSeeker> yey 09:55 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has joined #go-nuts 09:56 < nsf> TheSeeker: well, it's not a problem for windows obviously, but some weird linux and/or *bsd people have issues with that 09:56 < nsf> they tend to use old, "stable" software 09:57 < nsf> like linux kernel 2.4.* 09:57 < nsf> python 2.4 09:57 < nsf> and god knows what else :D 09:58 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:59 < nsf> wrtp: so, what do you think? the most interesting stuff in template-pkg.make, pkg/Makefile and pkg/runtime/Make.def 09:59 < nsf> these give you an impression how it would look like 09:59 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 10:00 < wrtp> i think it's an interesting experiment 10:00 < nsf> well, with these templates I can build the whole Go lib 10:01 < nsf> but it's not everything, there is a $GOROOT/cmd also 10:01 < nsf> and deps are still missing 10:01 < nsf> I mean crosspackage deps 10:03 < nsf> and it is possble to create local makefiles for that system 10:03 < nsf> in fact it's pretty easy 10:03 < nsf> include $(ROOT)/templates.make 10:04 < nsf> $(eval $(call TEMPLATE_GO_PACKAGE_IN_DIR,)) 10:04 < nsf> done.. 10:04 < nsf> :) 10:04 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:04 < nsf> :( 10:05 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 10:07 < TheSeeker> hmm, I was able to build my own copy of goinstall after messing with the existing make scripts to use windows path seperators, and trying to edit goinstall source to do the same ... I wonder if I could make all the other commands too? 10:08 < nsf> ah, that's is another problem 10:08 < nsf> with make 10:08 < nsf> personally I don't care much about it 10:08 < nsf> but people do 10:08 < nsf> make isn't really windows friendly 10:08 < nsf> therefore moving away from it 10:09 < nsf> maybe will make it possible to build go on windows without cygwin or mingw 10:09 < nsf> or at least will make things simpler 10:10 < TheSeeker> what's wrong with mingw? 10:10 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has joined #go-nuts 10:10 < TheSeeker> are you thinking msys? 10:11 < nsf> TheSeeker: well, these are more like GNU/nix emulation layers for windows 10:11 < nsf> most people don't want to see them on their PCs 10:11 < nsf> wrtp: check this out, non-recursive make is better with -j2: http://pastie.org/1305132 10:12 < nsf> how nicely it builds everything with 8g as a first step and then moves one 10:12 < nsf> on* 10:12 < TheSeeker> mingw is GNU GCC for windows. 10:12 < nsf> TheSeeker: I know 10:12 < nsf> but it's not just gnu gcc 10:12 < nsf> it stands for minimalist GNU for windows 10:12 < TheSeeker> msys make is GNU Make version 3.79.1 :| 10:12 < nsf> hehe 10:14 < TheSeeker> I have mingw in my path, as well as cygwin, and msys (for msysgit) ... it's sometimes hard to tell which comflicting version of what will be executed from inside one of the commands offered by each of them :/ 10:14 < wrtp> nsf: -j2? 10:14 < nsf> wrtp: yes, make -j2 10:14 < nsf> uses two jobs, tries to do build in parallel 10:15 < nsf> see, it parallelizes not just individual dirs, but the lib as a whole 10:15 < nsf> starts from building GOFILES 10:15 < nsf> and then packs them 10:17 < nsf> I mean that was the non-recursive thing is all about 10:17 < nsf> everything in a single dependencies tree 10:17 < nsf> or graph, or whatever 10:18 < nsf> it will be even possible to add go libraries as a dependencies for your app 10:18 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 10:18 < nsf> like you've changed something in $GOROOT/src/pkg/bytes 10:18 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18 < nsf> and your app builds that, installs that and then goes on to itself 10:18 < nsf> :\ 10:19 < nsf> imho there is an advantage clearly, the problem is to convince go developers, that this kind of transition is necessary :D 10:25 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has joined #go-nuts 10:27 < TheSeeker> foss dev cycle: "this sucks, fix it!" -> "do it yourself" -> "fine then I will!" -> "ok, I did it, now use it" -> "no thanks" -> <everyone that's not a core developer starts using it> -> "ok, fine, we'll use it" 10:27 < nsf> haha 10:27 < nsf> the pre-last step is the most hard one 10:28 < nsf> especially in my case 10:28 < TheSeeker> not when you're starting with a small user base to begin with :) 10:29 < nsf> the problem here is that I want to rewrite the build system for the whole go source tree 10:29 < nsf> I can't just hold it as a patch somewhere on the net 10:29 < nsf> no one will use it 10:30 < nsf> so, I guess I should start with simple make templates for 3rd party projects 10:30 < nsf> because few people have projects with local libraries in them 10:30 < nsf> and they don't want recursive make 10:31 < nsf> because it fails to track dependencies correctly 10:32 < TheSeeker> If you can show that it's faster, simpler, or easier to get working on windows, I'll gladly pull from your fork of go instead of the main one :) 10:32 < nsf> yeah.. the thing is I don't really care about windows :D 10:32 < nsf> and I know that this is a large user base 10:32 < nsf> but.. 10:33 < nsf> I don't use windows and therefore I can't make a build system for it 10:35 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.180.113.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 10:35 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.180.113.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.180.113.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 10:36 < TheSeeker> I do use windows, so I could tell you if your system is easier to get working from a dumb windows user perspective :) 10:36 < nsf> well, it will be base on make anyway, so if make 3.81 is available on windows, why not 10:36 < nsf> based* 10:37 < nsf> 3.81, because this version contains an important bug fix for $(foreach $eval case 10:38 -!- TheSaint [~thesaint@166.205.9.152] has joined #go-nuts 10:40 < Archwyrm> nsf: Have you seen godag? It builds most of the standard library. 10:40 < nsf> nope 10:40 < Archwyrm> Just doesn't support cgo right now. 10:40 < nsf> I'm aware that this tool exists 10:40 < nsf> never used it, I just don't see a point 10:41 < Archwyrm> Point is you don't need make or makefiles. 10:41 < Archwyrm> It just 'works'. 10:41 < nsf> it just works for building Go source code 10:41 < nsf> but then your project grows 10:41 < nsf> and include let's say asciidoc -> man page toolchain 10:41 < nsf> and other things 10:41 < Archwyrm> Yeah, it doesn't support C obviously, so you can't build all of go with it. 10:42 < nsf> includes* 10:42 < Archwyrm> Heh 10:42 < Archwyrm> Well, make relies on external tools for this. I would assume any other build tool would want to allow custom targets. 10:42 < nsf> it is important, people on the ML that are talking about waf/cmake/scons/whatever 10:42 < nsf> are right partially 10:43 < nsf> indeed, the problem with make as I've said before 10:43 < nsf> is that it's not very windows friendly 10:43 < nsf> but being truly crossplatform is very hard 10:44 < nsf> make relies on POSIX stuff 10:44 < nsf> especially posix command tools (sh, mkdir, cp, rm, etc.) 10:44 < nsf> I don't think it's evil 10:44 < Archwyrm> cmake manages it. I suppose scons is fine too because it is just python. 10:44 < Archwyrm> Can't really say, I only have experience with make and cmake out of those. 10:45 < nsf> cmake provides alternatives for these tools 10:45 < vegai> why not go full crazy and mk? :P 10:45 < nsf> because even gnu make has not enough features for building non-recursive systems 10:45 < nsf> for example it lacks per-file namespaces 10:45 < nsf> there is a project on the net 10:45 < nsf> called makepp 10:45 < nsf> it addresses some of these issues 10:46 < nsf> but apparently no one uses it :D 10:46 < nsf> gnu make is a sane choice because at least on linux 10:46 < Archwyrm> Some tools get rather entrenched. 10:46 < nsf> it is available on the most major distributions 10:46 < Archwyrm> *cough*autotools/conf*cough* 10:47 < nsf> I've never used autotools, I think it's a complete crap 10:47 < nsf> for C/C++ projects I use cmake 10:47 < Archwyrm> Same. I have never even tried. 10:47 < nsf> I've tried 10:47 < Archwyrm> Fixing the build of some projects that were already using it was scarring enough. 10:47 < nsf> it just dumps tons of useless files to your project dir 10:48 -!- TheSaint [~thesaint@166.205.9.152] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:48 < Archwyrm> That and all the junk you have to know to actually use it. 10:48 < nsf> m4 is the most scary one 10:49 < Archwyrm> Yeah, I was trying to think of the name. 10:50 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:51 < bortzmeyer> I use autotools and I am quite happy with it. But I always appreciate testing alternatives. 10:53 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:55 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has joined #go-nuts 10:57 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:04 < wrtp> nsf: you can have less features and nonetheless have at least as much power 11:05 < nsf> I'm sure I can 11:05 < nsf> but rewriting make isn't affordable at the moment 11:05 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05 < wrtp> i.e. mk is not necessarily insufficient 11:06 < nsf> well, regarding mk you shouldn't listen me 11:06 < nsf> I've seen it once 11:06 < wrtp> in fact i think it's fine - they don't use it only because it adds another dependency. 11:06 < nsf> and I'm sure I haven't seen even 30% of its features 11:06 < nsf> :) 11:07 < wrtp> ftp://ftp.cyberway.com.sg/pub/funet/unix/security/docs/usenix/usenix/summer87/mk.ps.gz 11:07 < wrtp> if you're interested 11:07 < nsf> not really :) 11:07 < nsf> it would be interesting if I was planning to rewrite the make tool 11:07 < wrtp> it's nice because it cuts out a lot of make's cruft 11:07 < nsf> my interest is purely practical 11:07 < wrtp> while expanding its power 11:07 < wrtp> sure 11:10 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:10 -!- esplinter [~pablo@193.144.127.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:13 -!- esplinter [~pablo@193.144.127.12] has joined #go-nuts 11:14 < uriel> wrtp: er, there are better versions of that paper than a .ps.gz ;) 11:14 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 11:14 < uriel> http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/mk 11:15 < wrtp> uriel: sorry, i had a look on your website and i didn't see it 11:19 < uriel> wrtp: you can also use http://mk.cat-v.org as a shortcut ;) 11:20 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:20 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189-10-175-46.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 11:23 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has joined #go-nuts 11:24 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has joined #go-nuts 11:24 < wrtp> uriel: did you see any of that? i was disconnected for a bit 11:31 < wrtp> is this working? anyone see this? 11:31 < nsf> yes yes 11:32 < nsf> your last phrase before disconnect was: 11:32 < nsf> wrtp | uriel: sorry, i had a look on your website and i didn't see it 11:34 < wrtp> ah! 11:34 < wrtp> i said: 11:34 < wrtp> uriel: anyway, that's the wrong paper 11:34 < wrtp> i wanted to point to the original mk paper that describes its raison d'etre 11:34 < wrtp> "mk; a successor to make" by andrew hume 11:34 < wrtp> you should add it 11:34 < wrtp> it was also published in the 10th ed books 11:34 < wrtp> nsf: thanks 11:35 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36 < TheSeeker> mk, because typing 4 chars to start a build is 2 chars too many? 11:39 < wrtp> mk, because it's difficult to think of new names... 11:41 < TheSeeker> fair enough 11:52 < nsf> yamake, makemm (minus minus), makepp :D 11:52 < nsf> and just for the record, I'm not proposing these 11:56 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 11:58 < uriel> wrtp: ah, cool 11:59 < uriel> wrtp: do you have a link to that paper? 12:00 -!- Nitro [~Nitro@modemcable105.5-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:03 < mpl> wrtp: I think the go team said they didn't want to use mk because they didn't want to add an additional "not widely known" dep, didn't they? 12:05 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:10 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 12:12 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has joined #go-nuts 12:15 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:17 < uriel> mpl: nor any more extra dependencies 12:17 < uriel> mpl: as russ pointed out, the most important aspect for a build system is ubiquity, and at that make is very hard to beat 12:18 < uriel> they could have added mk plus a simple bootstrap step like p9p does, but really it hardly seems worth the trouble 12:19 -!- brighteyed [59ff4f3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.255.79.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:22 < mpl> yes. 12:22 < wrtp> uriel: your original comment was in respect to a link that i wrote here! 12:23 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:23 < wrtp> ftp://ftp.cyberway.com.sg/pub/funet/unix/security/docs/usenix/usenix/summer87/mk.ps.gz 12:25 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 12:25 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.104.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@187.112.23.96] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:22 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@187.113.175.203] has joined #go-nuts 13:25 -!- thom [~thom@70-139-188-39.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:28 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.180.113.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:30 -!- Nitro [~Nitro@142.137.223.52] has joined #go-nuts 13:30 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 13:32 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:34 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:40 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 13:40 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has joined #go-nuts 13:45 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 13:47 < uriel> wrtp: ah, interesting 13:47 -!- Nitro [~Nitro@142.137.223.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:53 < uriel> wrtp: added it: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/mk/ 13:54 < uriel> (and pointed mk.cat-v.org thre) 14:03 -!- captn1 [~root@pD9FE2674.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:03 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:04 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176098049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:05 < wrtp> uriel: it would be great if you could find all the papers that were in the 10th ed. vol 2... 14:05 < wrtp> oops sorry, very off topic for here 14:07 < nsf> wrtp: IRC has a nice implicit rule, off topic is allowed in case if there are no "on topic" talks on the channel at the moment :D 14:07 < Fish> I have the 10th books 14:07 < nsf> simply because making demands for people to be always "on topic" is cruel 14:08 < Fish> I could scan it, but after you have to ocr the images 14:09 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@208.75.85.237] has joined #go-nuts 14:09 < Fish> iirc, most of 10th edition specific papers are very hard to find 14:13 < wrtp> Fish: i have the 10th ed books too. i'm so glad i bought them when i saw them on sale at the time. 14:13 < wrtp> but many of the papers are indeed hard to find - it'd be useful to have them online to point people to 14:14 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has joined #go-nuts 14:14 < Fish> best way would be to convince those who have 10th edition sources to put the troff sources online 14:15 < wrtp> maybe they don't exist any more 14:16 -!- hokapoka [~hokapoka@hoka.hokapoka.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:17 < mpl> cs-archeology :) 14:18 < hokapoka> At last I've managed to get some old project off my desk so I can re-look at using go. I was initially looking at using mongodb with go, but I had some issues with the implymentation. I've not had a chance to try and fix it yet, wondered what others were using for databases? 14:18 < mpl> sqlite 14:22 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:25 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:38 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.104.238] has joined #go-nuts 14:38 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 14:45 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:45 -!- markus [53fedc8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.254.220.140] has joined #go-nuts 14:46 -!- markus [53fedc8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.254.220.140] has quit [Client Quit] 14:52 -!- artefon [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has joined #go-nuts 14:57 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-98-219-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 14:57 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.104.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 14:58 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 15:02 -!- markus [~markus@c83-254-220-140.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 15:03 < markus> hey everybody 15:03 < markus> has somebody time to answer a beginners question in go? 15:03 <+iant> you can just ask, you don't have to ask whether you can ask 15:04 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@5634798d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 15:04 < markus> alright 15:05 < markus> i have small go program 15:05 < markus> written in a text file 15:05 < markus> and wondering what the result of the program is 15:06 < wrtp> markus: have you tried compiling it? 15:06 < markus> and whether its compileder dependent 15:06 < markus> compiler 15:07 < markus> may somebody have a look on it when I send it to you? 15:07 < wrtp> markus: why don't you put on a web pasteboard? 15:07 < markus> alright 15:08 < markus> http://pastebin.com/9saPZymc 15:09 <+iant> The type Concrete does not appear to have a show method 15:09 <+iant> so I don't see how this code could compile 15:10 <+iant> plus the syntax is wrong 15:10 < markus> alright 15:10 <+iant> what is your real question? 15:11 < markus> this multi interface satisfaction case which method will be called 15:11 < markus> the first show or the second one if Concrete would have a show method 15:11 < wrtp> markus: i think you mean to say func (this *One) not func (One *this) 15:11 < markus> yeah 15:12 < wrtp> but even then it's wrong because you want to use One, not *One 15:12 < wrtp> and as iant says, Concrete has no show method 15:12 <+iant> You can't write your own method for an interface type 15:12 < markus> ah okay 15:12 < wrtp> markus: why don't you try making an example that compiles, then get back here? 15:12 <+iant> Interface types get methods from concrete types 15:13 < markus> okay question solved when you cannot make a method for an interface type 15:13 < markus> thanks 15:13 < markus> cya 15:13 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13 -!- markus [~markus@c83-254-220-140.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 15:16 <+iant> that was odd 15:22 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CF40D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:26 < wrtp> just someone wondering how the language works, i guess 15:28 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:33 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 15:35 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 15:39 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 15:41 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 15:41 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has joined #go-nuts 15:52 -!- rejb 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[~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 18:13 -!- evilclone [~graham@dyn1065-37.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #go-nuts 18:14 < evilclone> is there a way for me to write a lib for my program to use without having the lib be installed to the global package area? basically I'd like to break certain bits of functionality off into separate packages but I don't want to pollute the "global" package area with my packages... 18:15 < cbeck> import "./yourpackage" 18:16 < cbeck> Or in the makefile TARGET=yourname/packagename 18:16 < cbeck> if you want them to be easily included from anywhere but not at the top level 18:17 -!- saschpe [~quassel@77-23-177-40-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 18:17 < evilclone> is there a way to still use makefiles but not have it automatically do the "make install" step? 18:20 < evilclone> because I'd quite like to have the nice easy-rebuild I gain from having stuff setup with make 18:20 < evilclone> but as it is the packages get pushed to the global package store 18:22 < cbeck> make install is a seperate step 18:22 -!- krutcha [~krutcha@remote.icron.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:24 < evilclone> cbeck: it seems to run it due to the lib being in my DEPS variable in my main program's make file... should I be setting the makefiles out differently somehow? 18:25 -!- gmilleramilar [~gmiller@184-106-207-119.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:26 < gmilleramilar> what should the output of this program on x86 be? http://pastie.org/private/8hp5uf8h3la8ls6c8qnw0w 18:27 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 18:27 <+iant> gmilleramilar: what happens when you run it? 18:27 < gmilleramilar> 4 18:27 <+iant> sounds good 18:28 < gmilleramilar> is that because unsafe.Maxalign limits it? 18:28 <+iant> unsafe.Alignof is telling you something about the compiler you are using, not something inherent in the type 18:28 <+iant> that is why it is unsafe 18:28 <+iant> it's telling you the alignment the compiler will use for the type 18:29 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 18:29 < gmilleramilar> but the golang spec says that it should be the lesser of the size and unsafe.Maxalign, right? 18:29 <+iant> I don't know what unsafe.Maxalign is, but, yes, I expect that 4 is the maximum alignment that 8g uses 18:29 < gmilleramilar> yeah, that's the next problem, the spec references that constant, but it does not exist in the libraries. 18:30 <+iant> hmmm, that is od 18:30 <+iant> d 18:30 < gmilleramilar> I can file a bug about it. 18:30 <+iant> thanks 18:35 -!- ct529 [~quassel@envpc1758.york.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35 < gmilleramilar> ( http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=1285 ), this actually came up because I was looking to see if writes to float64 would be atomic on x86, which apparently it is (according to Intel) if the bytes are aligned on an 8 word boundary. 18:36 < gmilleramilar> so I guess they are not. 18:36 -!- bortzmeyer [~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:ac41:6758:6298:fbbd] has joined #go-nuts 18:41 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-116-172.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 18:47 <+iant> Go doesn't guarantee any sort of atomic writes 18:54 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 19:02 < gmilleramilar> I understand that, but I'm more interested in whether they are. 19:02 < gmilleramilar> (on a particular architecture) 19:09 < plexdev> http://is.gd/hiKPE by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: bug fix in relativePath 19:11 -!- mssm [~mssm@ip-95-221-75-124.bb.netbynet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:13 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21 -!- krutcha [~krutcha@remote.icron.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:25 < evilclone> cbeck..? 19:26 < cbeck> had to catch a bus 19:26 < evilclone> oh right 19:27 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 19:27 < evilclone> got any response to: cbeck: it seems to run it due to the lib being in my DEPS variable in my main program's make file... should I be setting the makefiles out differently somehow? 19:27 < cbeck> Hmm 19:27 < evilclone> with regard to make install automatically being run when my lib's sub folder is mentioned in the "DEPS" line of my program's makefile 19:28 < evilclone> I'd rather not go down the ugly-hack route of namespacing all of my libs to stop them polluting the global lib area 19:29 < evilclone> tbh, I'd be happy if I was able to just have multiple files that provide different packages all built into a single executable rather than building seperate libs first 19:29 < cbeck> I don't find that particularly ugly, tbh 19:29 < evilclone> I'm just trying to get some form of separation of my different objects in this project into separate namespaces from each other 19:29 < evilclone> because things are gonna get crowded otherwise... :/ 19:30 < evilclone> yeah but this libs are very specific to the application at hand 19:30 < evilclone> so having them in the global lib store seems... pointless... 19:30 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@187.113.175.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30 < cbeck> Then just use the import "./blah" syntax 19:31 < evilclone> ok, but then I'd have to remove the DEPS line from my makefile and go around building all the dependant libs manually... 19:31 < cbeck> And perhaps roll your own makefile 19:31 < evilclone> oh 19:31 < evilclone> joy :( 19:31 < evilclone> I take it that the helper makefiles can only get me so far, then? 19:32 < cbeck> They're for a rather particular purpose 19:32 < evilclone> right-ho 19:33 < evilclone> I'm awfully conscious of the fact that I feel like I'm abusing the package system of go 19:33 < evilclone> essentially, I'm attempting to separate the different parts of my app into logical namespaces of some variety 19:33 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@187.113.175.203] has joined #go-nuts 19:33 < cbeck> I do exactly what you're talking about fairly regularly 19:34 < cbeck> And just use a simple makefile 19:34 < evilclone> obviously importing them as libs gives me the nice separation so that I've got something like "webserv.Foo" access to those objects to do with the webserver part and then "somethingelse.Bar" for parts related to something else 19:35 < evilclone> is there no mechanism in go to do this without building the "webserv" component as a separate lib and then linking it in? 19:35 -!- prudhvi [~nobody@nullpointer.in] has joined #go-nuts 19:35 < cbeck> for that exact use case, no 19:35 < prudhvi> Hi, i am wondering if go has any support for Accessing XML webservices? ( consuming from WSDL? ) 19:41 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.180.113] has joined #go-nuts 19:44 -!- itrekkie_ [~itrekkie@ip72-200-114-63.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:46 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:48 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@71-214-188-46.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF609E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:49 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.98.78] has joined #go-nuts 19:58 -!- MaksimBurnin [~max@44.188-224-87.telenet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:01 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.98.78] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:08 -!- Paradox924X [~Paradox92@vaserv/irc/founder] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14 -!- Paradox924X [~Paradox92@c-68-35-229-34.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:32 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-2-18.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 20:33 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-2-18.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176098049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42 -!- MaksimBurnin [~max@44.188-224-87.telenet.ru] has joined #go-nuts 20:43 < plexdev> http://is.gd/hj0lf by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/pkg/go/token/ -- position.go: test cases for token.Pos 20:47 -!- saschpe [~quassel@77-23-177-40-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@208.75.85.237] has quit [Quit: plainhao] 21:04 -!- gr0gmint [~quassel@87.60.23.38] has joined #go-nuts 21:10 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:11 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has joined #go-nuts 21:14 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d6ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:15 -!- ako [~nya@fuld-4d00d2ec.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20 -!- gr0gmint [~quassel@87.60.23.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@g226245092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 21:28 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055198166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:29 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29 -!- bortzmeyer [~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:ac41:6758:6298:fbbd] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 21:33 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@1x-193-157-205-232.uio.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:39 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-2-18.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 21:56 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 21:58 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@5634798d.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 22:02 -!- Paradox924X [~Paradox92@c-68-35-229-34.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:02 -!- Paradox924X [~Paradox92@vaserv/irc/founder] has joined #go-nuts 22:06 -!- sjansen [~sjansen@ip65-44-231-178.z231-44-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:09 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 22:09 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.147.68] has joined #go-nuts 22:17 -!- captn [~root@pD9FE2674.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has joined #go-nuts 22:32 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34 < enferex> is anyone working on a SSA form for the gc compiler? 22:36 < skelterjohn> what's SSA? 22:36 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-204-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:42 < enferex> Static single assignment 22:44 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.33.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48 -!- dju [~dju@fsf/member/dju] has joined #go-nuts 22:50 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:50 < anticw> enferex: use gccgo? 22:52 < enferex> ah I suppose the GIMPLE output from the gccgo front end would be converted to SSA in the middle-end of gcc? 22:53 -!- dju [~dju@fsf/member/dju] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:53 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:54 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:54 -!- dju [~dju@fsf/member/dju] has joined #go-nuts 22:55 -!- awidegreen_ [~quassel@p5DF1EA63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF609E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 22:57 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CF40D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01 -!- krutcha [~krutcha@remote.icron.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:01 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:02 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.180.113] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:04 < krutcha> is there a way to disable local echo when reading from stdin by line? or would one have to read char by char and sendout backspaces? 23:05 -!- ystsntv [ystsntv@S01060019db8e14ab.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:06 < enferex> i think you might be able use a serttermio call 23:06 < enferex> er setterm 23:06 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 23:08 < krutcha> I'll give that a go 23:08 < krutcha> thx 23:08 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.147.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08 < enferex> thats aguess probably not really the solution you are looking for 23:09 < enferex> You can always just redirect output 23:11 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.202.191] has joined #go-nuts 23:11 < enferex> I assume you are implementing a password input functionality? 23:11 -!- mcot [~mcot@pool-71-171-113-161.clppva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11 < enferex> or some kind of keylogger ;-) 23:11 -!- mcot [~mcot@pool-71-171-113-161.clppva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:11 < krutcha> correct, just a simple scanf at the moment for a console jabber client password 23:11 < krutcha> figured why not try to mask the password if I can 23:13 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.147.68] has joined #go-nuts 23:16 -!- madari [madari@AM.irc.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:16 -!- madari [madari@AM.irc.fi] has joined #go-nuts 23:18 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.92.26] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 23:20 -!- wtfness [~dsc@78.101.147.68] has joined #go-nuts 23:20 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.147.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:24 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:27 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:28 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.79.101] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 23:35 -!- watr_ [~watr@66.183.108.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38 -!- krutcha [~krutcha@remote.icron.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:43 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has joined #go-nuts 23:49 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:50 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Thu Nov 18 00:00:16 2010