--- Log opened Fri Jan 28 00:00:05 2011 00:00 < temoto> I wouldn't say 'haskell use stm'. It has a library. You're not supposed to use it everywhere. And it is surely not anything like built into language. 00:00 < KBme> oh, i see. didn't know that 00:00 < temoto> Though it rocks. :) 00:01 < KBme> i just don't get haskell 00:01 < KBme> it's syntax makes me want to run and hide 00:01 < temoto> It has almost no syntax. :) 00:01 < KBme> oh, there is a bunch of stuff 00:01 < KBme> lists, but also weird stuff 00:02 < KBme> like $, .|., and then some 00:02 < temoto> That's not syntax. 00:02 < temoto> $ is an operator name. You could define it yourself. 00:03 < KBme> heh, what i learn in #go :) 00:03 < Boney> temoto: having skimmed that article it looks like stm is hard in imperative languages (I agree). 00:04 < temoto> Haskell is damn wierd - no doubt about that. Requires you to forget all you ever known. But it's really not about syntax. 00:04 < KBme> uhum 00:04 < Boney> but that Duffy's conclusion is that "you need other things [like purity] before STM works nicly" (paraphrased). 00:04 < KBme> yeah, it freaks me out 00:05 < Boney> which I agree with. 00:05 < Boney> temoto: if you took away Monads and Lazyness haskell would be much saner :-) 00:05 < temoto> Boney, i read/heard SPJ comment on that move. His primary points: 1) the STM.NET team was really high professional 2) they took very hard task 3) they could win if they took lesser task. 00:06 < Boney> temoto: makes sense. 00:06 < temoto> i don't quite remember what was the lesser task. maybe implementing STM without interoperation with native code 00:07 < Boney> probably, it can work really well if you eithet don't let side-effects excape the transation (hard) or don't care if side effects can escape the transation. 00:07 < temoto> It just doesn't fit in my head how they wanted to warp native calls into STM. 00:08 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055249227.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08 < Boney> yeah, I never read up on the specifics of .NET + STM, I'm not interested in .NET. 00:08 -!- franksalim_ [~frank@108-65-76-174.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:08 < Boney> but I agree it'd be a very difficult project. 00:09 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc13-aztw24-2-0-cust23.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: "Wait... what?!"] 00:10 -!- rinzai [~rinzai@host86-132-154-175.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:14 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc13-aztw24-2-0-cust23.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:15 -!- devrim [~Adium@cpe-72-225-239-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19 < uriel> adg: yes, but it would be nice to have a more centralized place for both comments and (semi-official?) responses... 00:19 <@adg> uriel: the comments on my go blog have been of limited use 00:19 <@adg> (the personal one) 00:19 -!- temoto [~temoto@2a02:6b0:16:0:21e:68ff:fe55:14b2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:19 <@adg> and people ask stupid questions like "Why should I learn Go instead of OCaml?" 00:19 -!- temoto [~temoto@2a02:6b0:16:0:21e:68ff:fe55:14b2] has joined #go-nuts 00:20 <@adg> I don't really want to have to moderate those, or even respond to them in an official capacity 00:20 <@adg> the blog posts are written with the idea of being artefacts that will last a long time 00:20 <@adg> i don't want just anyone to come along and annotate them 00:20 < uriel> yes, but I'm quite sure your personal blog gets much lower traffic than the main Go blog (but I guess I could be worng), and the problem is that some of the questions people post in agregators either get no answers, or even worse, get wrong answers from people that don't even use Go... 00:22 < uriel> but I guess that is reasonable, on the other hand, with things changing so fast, while the blog posts are very good and high quality, I'm not sure they are quite as timeless... anyway, obviously up to you, I'm very happy that such great stuff gets written, 00:22 < uriel> just thought it would be a good opportunity to engage more with some people 00:22 < uriel> that might get no response or misinformation instead.. 00:22 < Xenith> What's wrong with using the mailing list? 00:23 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-165-36.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 00:27 < skelterjohn> it's just another way to spread the message 00:27 < skelterjohn> the ML is really for people who are already interested in go 00:27 < skelterjohn> blog posts have a much wider audience 00:28 -!- tvw [~tv@e176002055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31 <@adg> it's true 00:32 < fzzbt> there are so many mails, often poorly written or just plain spam. it's hard to keep up with a ML. blogs are nicer to read and find through search engines, especially if one is looking for something specific. 00:33 <@adg> but people rarey, if ever, post questions related specificaly to teh blog s 00:33 <@adg> the questions on the mailing list are about specific problems 00:36 < fzzbt> true. ML more discussion oriented, whereas blogs are maybe better for presenting stuff. 00:46 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has joined #go-nuts 00:55 -!- amacleod [~amacleod@pool-96-252-93-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:04 -!- niemeyer_ [~niemeyer@189-10-154-68.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06 -!- irc [~irc@209.17.191.58] has joined #go-nuts 01:07 -!- Maxdamantus [~Maxdamant@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:07 -!- impl [impl@atheme/member/impl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07 -!- impl [impl@224-74.ip4.durham0.network.cynigram.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:07 -!- impl [impl@224-74.ip4.durham0.network.cynigram.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:07 -!- impl [impl@atheme/member/impl] has joined #go-nuts 01:07 -!- Guest55373 [~irc@209.17.191.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08 -!- Maxdamantus [~Maxdamant@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:10 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-202-51.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.200.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:33 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-93-139.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 01:39 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.200.174] has joined #go-nuts 01:42 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-93-139.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@c-98-200-166-134.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:45 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@c-98-200-166-134.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:49 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@c-24-23-243-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:07 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@c-24-23-243-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:23 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.200.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47 < uriel> adg: where is Go: http://code.google.com/more/table/ ? ;P 02:51 < decaf> the word "go" is too generic to search at google. it seems no spesific coding about this 03:00 < uriel> ? 03:00 < uriel> and Wave is not? 03:01 < uriel> fuck, what about "web"? 03:03 < skelterjohn> well, that's a table of APIs and dev products 03:03 < skelterjohn> go is a language 03:04 < decaf> they did an exception for "The Who" 03:04 < decaf> or search engine code became intelligent eventually 03:04 < skelterjohn> ?? 03:05 < skelterjohn> oh not talking about the table 03:13 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-93-139.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 03:17 < skelterjohn> is there any way to set it up so that a googlecode or github project will mirror a project from the other site? 03:17 < skelterjohn> and keep up with updates, etc 03:19 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@147.sub-69-99-184.myvzw.com] has joined #go-nuts 03:37 -!- nettok_ [~quassel@200.119.159.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-93-139.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40 -!- keithgcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-vfldxnnjaujbcecy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43 -!- Tv [~tv@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:50 < KBme> i bet you can do a cronjob on appengine 03:52 < skelterjohn> well, what if i forget about the automatic bit 03:52 < skelterjohn> is there a command that will do it? 03:52 < skelterjohn> import all the commits, their comments, etc? 03:58 -!- quantumelixir [~chillu@203.110.240.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:20 -!- dforsyth_ [~dforsyth@bastion.inap.yelpcorp.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:24 < KBme> git svn? 04:24 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:25 < KBme> oh, with hg...hmmm 04:26 < KBme> skelterjohn: http://hg-git.github.com/ 04:26 < KBme> ;) 04:27 < KBme> 'nite 04:28 -!- crazy2be [~justin@d75-152-162-237.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:36 -!- decaf [~mehmet@95.15.18.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47 -!- devrim [~Adium@cpe-72-225-239-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:49 -!- amacleod [~amacleod@pool-96-252-93-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye] 05:01 -!- enferex [~enferex@users.757.org] has joined #go-nuts 05:03 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:03 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@147.sub-69-99-184.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:40 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 06:02 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has joined #go-nuts 06:08 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189-10-154-68.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 06:20 -!- millergarym [~chatzilla@203-219-89-242.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:43 -!- crazy2be [~justin@d75-152-162-237.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46 -!- kashia__ [~Kashia@port-92-200-76-69.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 06:49 -!- kashia_ [~Kashia@port-92-200-19-160.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:49 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@cpc2-lee23-0-0-cust152.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 06:54 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.164.51] has joined #go-nuts 06:59 -!- gobeginner1 [~nwood@cpc2-lee23-0-0-cust152.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 06:59 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@cpc2-lee23-0-0-cust152.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:59 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 07:03 -!- gobeginner1 [~nwood@cpc2-lee23-0-0-cust152.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:04 -!- idr0 [~idr@e179146032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 07:05 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.164.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:06 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 07:13 -!- emiel_ [~emiel_@82-197-205-84.dsl.cambrium.nl] has quit [Quit: emiel_] 07:13 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.33.48] has joined #go-nuts 07:18 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:26 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 07:36 -!- roto [~roto@64.79.202.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:40 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 07:45 -!- roto [~roto@64.79.202.154] has joined #go-nuts 07:45 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 07:48 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 07:59 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:11 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED42E59.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 08:12 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.66.102] has joined #go-nuts 08:19 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 08:29 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 08:35 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 08:40 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 08:41 -!- idr1 [~idr@e179151169.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 08:42 -!- idr0 [~idr@e179146032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47 -!- tvw [~tv@e176007072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 08:50 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 09:17 < hokapoka> I'm sharding an app, and intend to use the rpc package to communicate between machines. I have a dedicated service that's a manager, where I've been using channels I would send a signal down the channel to another service on the same machine. As I cann't use channels over rpc, I was going to send the rpc call from the manager to a node, but in order for the manager to know there's a node avaliable I'm planning on making the node send an initial cal 09:18 -!- sahid [~sahid@LNeuilly-152-21-22-10.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:18 < hokapoka> And once the node has finished it sends another RPC call back to the manager at which point the manager knows that it's again avaliable. 09:18 < wrtp> iant: i've found the cause of the bug in cgo 09:18 < hokapoka> Any better suggestions? 09:19 < wrtp> hokapoka: you could use netchan instead 09:19 < hokapoka> Would be fantastic if I could send signal through a channel to remote nodes. 09:20 < hokapoka> oh. 09:20 < hokapoka> netchan... 09:20 < hokapoka> oh brilliant 09:20 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:20 < hokapoka> Many thanks wrtp. 09:21 < wrtp> np 09:22 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 09:28 < taruti> netchan is cute. now if it would be robust... 09:29 < hokapoka> oh, is there some stablity issues with it? 09:30 < taruti> hokapoka: gob + untrusted peers is bad. 09:30 < wrtp> taruti: it's being actively worked on. 09:30 < wrtp> by the time hokapoka has finished the app, it'll probably be done. 09:31 < taruti> wrtp: even resource limits? 09:31 < hokapoka> "untrusted" 09:31 < aiju> use RSA 09:31 < aiju> problem solved 09:31 < wrtp> c.f. http://codereview.appspot.com/4084044/ 09:31 < wrtp> aiju: how does that solve the problem? 09:32 < wrtp> it might stop people corrupting the traffic en route, but it doesn't stop malicious clients 09:32 < aiju> wrtp: that was a joke 09:32 < wrtp> oh. ha ha. 09:32 < aiju> i'm pretty sure you can come up with some weird cryptographic scheme 09:32 < wrtp> i'm pretty sure you can't. 09:33 < wrtp> taruti: yeah, resource limits are hard when you can sent arbitrarily sized slices across the net. 09:34 < wrtp> but... you can get around that by simply not having channels that hold slices. 09:34 < taruti> wrtp: yes, they are hard, but must be implemented somehow. 09:34 < wrtp> it's a choice for the person making the app 09:34 < taruti> or strings 09:34 < wrtp> yeah, true 09:35 < taruti> hmm. a per-goroutine alloc limit would solve this niftily 09:35 < wrtp> maybe you could specify a max message size to the gob decoder. 09:36 < wrtp> taruti: i don't think that would be good. 09:36 < taruti> or that 09:36 < wrtp> taruti: because you don't know which alloc will tip you over the limit. 09:36 < wrtp> it might be just calling a function. 09:37 < wrtp> also, how do you know how much a goroutine has allocated? 09:38 < taruti> wrtp: it seems to me that a go-routine like "read data from network, unmarshal, stuff it into a channel" is quite common and atm somewhat nontrivial to do safely. 09:38 < wrtp> is there anything else that's hard about it besides resource usage? 09:38 < Ina> Ooh, 'defer' is handy :D 09:38 < aiju> defer is mean 09:39 < taruti> wrtp: doing it safely (i.e. resources) 09:39 * wrtp likes defer too. 09:39 < taruti> defer <3 09:39 < wrtp> taruti: if your message size is limited, then your resources are limited too 09:39 < wrtp> so i think that would solve the problem. 09:39 < taruti> wrtp: which seems to limit serialization to json 09:39 < wrtp> huh? 09:40 < aiju> what resources are you talking about? :P 09:40 < wrtp> is there anything about gobs that precludes a message size limit? 09:40 < wrtp> aiju: memory 09:40 < aiju> machines have infinite RAM for practical purposes :D 09:40 < wrtp> aiju: nope. not when someone keeps on sending you 4GB strings! 09:41 < wrtp> sorry, 2GB is the max. 09:41 < aiju> lolwut 09:41 < taruti> wrtp: think of a message like "<array-length: 1000000000000><value-1><value-2><end of message>" and a decoder that first allocates by the array length and then starts reading the elements. instant dos. 09:41 < wrtp> yeah, but it doesn't have to work like that. 09:42 < wrtp> if the decoder only allocates the array if the whole encoded array will fit inside the message size limit, then we're ok 09:42 < taruti> yes. but that is not (yet) supported. 09:42 < wrtp> sure 09:42 < wrtp> but as i said, it's being worked on. 09:43 < wrtp> it's not a particularly hard problem. 09:43 < wrtp> and it's not a problem in practice until you actually have malicious clients. 09:43 < aiju> but why do you pass such things around? 09:43 < wrtp> what things? 09:43 < aiju> 2 GB strings 09:44 < hokapoka> So all of the issues soly arise for untrusted clients, if I manage that at a network level there's little trouble using netchan with go. 09:44 < aiju> or are you talking about evil people? 09:44 < wrtp> yes 09:44 < taruti> hokapoka: yes 09:44 < aiju> oic 09:44 < wrtp> aiju: yes 09:44 < hokapoka> So I can always blame the network admins for not doing their job :) 09:44 < wrtp> yeah. 09:44 * hokapoka passes the buck 09:45 < wrtp> but it would be nice to be able to use netchan with untrusted clients, as part of a networked game, for example. 09:46 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189-10-154-68.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:46 < wrtp> BTW, the message size limit is trivial with gob because each message on the gob stream comes preceded by a byte count. 09:46 < wrtp> if the decoder sees that the message is too big, it can just discard it. 09:53 -!- tvw [~tv@e176007072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00 -!- foocraft [~dsc@89.211.85.52] has joined #go-nuts 10:03 < Ina> Out of curiosity, say func x returns string, int; can I use fmt.Println(x(<args>)) and have it behave like I put in the string and the int as arguments manually? 10:04 < wrtp> yes 10:07 < hokapoka> Is that the same as log.Printf(" foo : %s\nbar : $d", x(<args) ) ? 10:07 < wrtp> no 10:07 < wrtp> that's not allowed 10:07 < hokapoka> Thought as much 10:08 < wrtp> "As a special case, if the return parameters of a function or method g are equal in number and individually assignable to the parameters of another function or method f, then the call f(g(parameters_of_g)) will invoke f after binding the return values of g to the parameters of f in order. The call of f must contain no parameters other than the call of g. If f has a final ... parameter, it is assigned the return values of g that remain after assignment of regular 10:08 < wrtp> parameters." 10:09 < aiju> wrtp: that makes it sound like both are allowed 10:09 < hokapoka> "equal in number" 10:09 < aiju> If f has a final ... parameter, it is assigned the return values of g that remain after assignment of regular 10:10 < aiju> log.Printf *has* a final ... parameter 10:10 < aiju> oh but i see, it's not f(g()) 10:11 -!- decaf [~mehmet@95.15.18.7] has joined #go-nuts 10:29 -!- foocraft [~dsc@89.211.85.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32 -!- petrux [~petrux@host16-224-static.53-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 10:34 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.134.21] has joined #go-nuts 10:38 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 10:39 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 10:40 -!- kashia__ 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-!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:58 -!- idr [~idr@e179151169.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 12:05 -!- Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:05 -!- Ina [~Ina@62.140.137.137] has joined #go-nuts 12:07 < Ina> hmm 12:19 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-134-229.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:21 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-134-229.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:26 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 12:28 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 12:32 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 12:34 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225148077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:37 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-inqlyzeuxyunvmrc] has joined #go-nuts 12:42 -!- oscitate [~oscitate@CPE-124-187-120-137.lns1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 12:45 -!- mosva [~mosva@unaffiliated/mosva] has joined #go-nuts 13:08 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:29 -!- Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:31 < skelterjohn> hmm indeed 13:34 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 13:42 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189-10-154-68.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 13:56 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176116076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 13:57 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 14:02 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 14:04 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:18 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 14:18 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has joined #go-nuts 14:25 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 14:33 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.105.75] has joined #go-nuts 14:45 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 14:45 < plexdev> http://is.gd/pYkBwL by [Russ Cox] in go/doc/codelab/wiki/ -- doc/codelab/wiki: fixes 14:45 -!- xash [~xash@d046066.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:49 -!- gmilleramilar [~gmiller@38.104.67.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49 -!- scyth [~scyth@rots.in.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:49 -!- scyth [~scyth@rots.in.rs] has joined #go-nuts 15:00 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:00 -!- xash [~xash@d046066.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:01 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@113.84.146.115] has joined #go-nuts 15:02 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-194-67.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:03 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-194-67.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:05 < uriel> taruti: I think netchan's robustness is something that rob is working on 15:12 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@113.84.146.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:16 < exch> Minecraft is not good for my Go productivity >< 15:17 < aiju> lol 15:17 < aiju> now mein kraft gets mentioned on three channels i'm in 15:17 < aiju> why the fuck is everyone so obsessed with it? 15:17 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-202-71.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 15:18 < exch> hard to explain 15:18 < exch> it's just incredibly addictive for some reason 15:18 < exch> it reminds of lego 15:18 < aiju> i find Go more addicting 15:18 < exch> which, imho, is the single most awesome toy mankind has ever invented 15:19 < aiju> hahah 15:19 < aiju> no, the PDP-11 is the single most awesome toy mankind has ever invented 15:19 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@123.89.99.1] has joined #go-nuts 15:19 < exch> :P 15:19 < exch> I bet you could build one with lego 15:19 < aiju> hahahaah 15:19 < exch> and a working one at that 15:19 < exch> same with minecraft ^^ 15:20 < exch> people built working ALU's in minecraft 15:20 < exch> soundmix panels 15:20 < aiju> yeah, i know 15:22 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 15:23 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.153.46] has joined #go-nuts 15:23 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176116076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.33.48] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.153.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@123.89.99.1] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:36 -!- KptnKrill [KptnKrill@c-65-96-145-193.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:44 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has joined #go-nuts 15:51 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has joined #go-nuts 15:59 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.105.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:59 -!- pharris [~Adium@rhgw.opentext.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:00 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-eacae555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 16:10 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-202-71.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF70A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:19 -!- jodaro [~user@70-36-136-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:21 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21 -!- pingveno [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23 -!- pingveno [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:23 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has joined #go-nuts 16:25 -!- oscitate [~oscitate@CPE-124-187-120-137.lns1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Quit: peace in teh middle east] 16:25 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has quit [Client Quit] 16:29 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:32 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED42E59.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:36 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-202-71.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 16:37 -!- mattn_jp [~mattn@112-68-74-2f1.hyg1.eonet.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 16:39 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 16:41 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-161-197.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 16:41 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58 < hokapoka> humm, just setup 3 new boxes checked out the latest revision from hg and ./all.bash has stopped on gopack grc _test/net.a _gotest_.6 16:58 < hokapoka> when I say stopped, just hanging there 16:59 -!- ShadowIce` [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 17:00 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225148077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:03 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03 -!- temoto [~temoto@2a02:6b0:16:0:21e:68ff:fe55:14b2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:04 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 17:04 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:06 < hokapoka> Go has build fine, I just created a simple hello world test file on a machine that's still hung at the point above and it worked. 17:13 < hokapoka> And it's just failed on another machine that was fine, different point tho, http.TestRedirect. 17:15 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@84.92.0.53] has joined #go-nuts 17:17 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-csozteautmvbqwyx] has joined #go-nuts 17:17 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 17:22 < niemeyer> hokapoka: Yeah, it looks like there is an issue in the net tests 17:22 < niemeyer> hokapoka: I *think* I've seen a commit flying by to fix it 17:23 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23 -!- makkalot [~makkalot@85.101.146.193] has joined #go-nuts 17:25 < makkalot> hi how go has a garbage collector it is not running some vm right ? is it native code really ? Is there some explanation of internals of gc ? 17:25 -!- chaos95 [chaos95@mafianode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:25 < aiju> makkalot: magic, no, yes, not really 17:25 < aiju> i think you're supposed to read source 17:26 < hokapoka> niemeyer: export DISABLE_NET_TESTS=1 disables the tests and it goes through fine. 17:26 < Ina> You can have a perfectly functional garbage collector without a VM :) 17:26 < makkalot> aiju: some brief explanation would be enough :) 17:27 -!- chaos95 [~chaos95@mafianode.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:27 < hokapoka> As I was setting these up from blank boxes I figured that I might have left something out. 17:27 < aiju> makkalot: well, what exactly do you want to know? 17:27 -!- ptrb [~peter@archimedes.bourgon.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:27 < Ina> Just because most of the popular garbage collecting languages use a VM doesn't mean it's a requirement for garbage collection. 17:27 < aiju> the GC is a simple mark and sweep GC 17:28 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-64-102.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:28 < niemeyer> makkalot: Garbage collection is entirely orthogonal to being a VM or not 17:28 < aiju> there are also GCs for C/C++ (though those suffer from problems related to the language) 17:28 -!- ptrb [~peter@archimedes.bourgon.org] has joined #go-nuts 17:29 < Ina> The primary problem with those is that your libraries likely don't use garbage collection. 17:29 -!- mattn_jp [~mattn@112-68-74-2f1.hyg1.eonet.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29 < makkalot> hmm so compiler starts somehow the gc at background when my application is started at separate goroutine maybe ? 17:29 -!- Natch [~natch@c-6dcde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 17:30 <+iant> makkalot: that would be nice, but what it actually does is sometimes do a gc when a goroutine allocates memory 17:30 -!- mattn_jp [~mattn@112-68-74-2f1.hyg1.eonet.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 17:30 -!- Natch| [~natch@c-6dcde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:31 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-194-67.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32 < niemeyer> iant: But what if it doesn't allocate memory! 17:32 * niemeyer hides 17:32 < aiju> hahahaha 17:32 <+iant> um 17:33 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-194-67.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:34 -!- enherit [~enherit@cpe-98-149-170-48.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:34 < gobeginner> probably silly question: can a package declare a method on a type exported by another package? I think its an illegal thing but Go's type system is so different I'm not sure. 17:35 < niemeyer> gobeginner: Nope, it can't 17:35 < exch> gobeginner: nope. You can make your own type of it and add methods though. type MyT foo.T; func (m MyT) F() { ... } 17:36 < gobeginner> cool, thank you 17:36 < exch> foo.T doesn't have this method, but MyT does. So you will need to cast any instance of foo.T to MyT before calling it 17:39 < gobeginner> so if foo.T had method func (t T) E() could I call that method E from MyT without casting it first? 17:40 < Ina> gobeginner, read up on embedding types :) 17:40 < gobeginner> OK, going to look 17:41 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has joined #go-nuts 17:46 < gobeginner> " When we embed a type, the methods of that type become methods of the outer type, but when they are invoked the receiver of the method is the inner type, not the outer one" looks rather like I can 17:47 < Ina> Yep, you can. :) 17:47 < Ina> I'm just a fan of directing people towards the manual :) 17:48 < gobeginner> Its the right thing to do, thanks 17:57 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-csozteautmvbqwyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58 -!- sahid [~sahid@LNeuilly-152-21-22-10.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:59 -!- Cyd [~zinc@unaffiliated/cydd] has joined #go-nuts 18:00 -!- saschpe [~quassel@opensuse/member/saschpe] has joined #go-nuts 18:01 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-tdqkmjstxzotddob] has joined #go-nuts 18:01 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 18:07 -!- jumzi [~jumzi@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:08 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has joined #go-nuts 18:19 -!- eaburns [~eaburns@c-24-62-248-129.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:19 -!- eaburns [~eaburns@c-24-62-248-129.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #go-nuts [] 18:21 -!- dforsyth_ [~dforsyth@bastion.inap.yelpcorp.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:24 -!- keithgcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-ycarqmrbvgjbshxs] has joined #go-nuts 18:24 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@dhcp-140-254-202-71.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:27 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:30 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:32 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 18:39 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-45-238-234.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 18:39 -!- Kashia [~Kashia@port-92-200-90-52.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 18:44 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46 -!- gudhbay [~gudhbay@187.114.146.204] has joined #go-nuts 18:46 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-inqlyzeuxyunvmrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:54 -!- petrux [~petrux@host16-224-static.53-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:57 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.180.172] has joined #go-nuts 18:57 -!- makkalot [~makkalot@85.101.146.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/QQ9hhy by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/gob/ -- gob: updates to the debugging tool. 19:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/q7mjLx by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/gob/ -- gob: make nested interfaces work. 19:05 -!- grumpytoad [~niel@t1004.greatnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:07 -!- foocraft [~dsc@89.211.85.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08 -!- crazy2be [~justin@d75-152-162-237.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:10 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.215.228] has joined #go-nuts 19:10 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@84.92.0.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11 < crazy2be> is there any diff library for go? 19:11 < aiju> diff library? 19:11 < crazy2be> like 19:12 < aiju> there is != 19:12 < crazy2be> i have user-editable content 19:12 < aiju> which tells you if things are different 19:12 < crazy2be> a wiki of sorts 19:12 < aiju> you can also call diff using os 19:12 < crazy2be> and i want to be able to save revisions 19:12 < crazy2be> i was thinking of that, yes 19:12 < crazy2be> although i native library would probably work better 19:17 < crazy2be> hmm i'm actually suprised such functionality doesn't exist yet 19:18 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CEEA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:19 < crazy2be> i suppose i should say "revision" library 19:20 < plexdev> http://is.gd/RlsXeV by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/gob/ -- gob: fix build 19:21 < crazy2be> i suppose you could even use something like a mini-git repository 19:21 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.215.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21 < crazy2be> or even a forever filesystem mounted at that point in the filesystem 19:25 < KirkMcDonald> I've always found Python's difflib to be useful, though it just does diffs, not all that other stuff. 19:25 < aiju> "that other stuff"? 19:26 < KirkMcDonald> What crazy2be is talking about, being a "revision" library that knows about filesystems and things. 19:26 < KirkMcDonald> Python's difflib just takes two sequences and tells you what's different. 19:27 < KirkMcDonald> http://docs.python.org/library/difflib 19:29 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@cpc2-lee23-0-0-cust152.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:35 -!- foocraft [~dsc@89.211.206.175] has joined #go-nuts 19:38 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 19:39 -!- TheSeeker [~n@99-153-250-110.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: update time] 19:43 -!- ajray [~ajray@short.csc.ncsu.edu] has joined #go-nuts 19:43 < ajray> quick question about loggers 19:43 < KirkMcDonald> ajray: They cut down trees. 19:43 < ajray> :-) 19:43 < ajray> if i make a type with a logger in it 19:44 < ajray> why do i need a "go n.logger()" to start it? 19:45 < ajray> ref: https://github.com/soul9/go-irc-chans/blob/master/irc.go#L302 19:45 < KirkMcDonald> Are you talking about the "log" package? 19:45 < ajray> yes 19:46 < KBme> you don't need that 19:46 < KirkMcDonald> That isn't a "log" package thing. 19:46 < ajray> i was confused by it 19:47 < KirkMcDonald> That's starting some method of the Network type. 19:47 < KirkMcDonald> https://github.com/soul9/go-irc-chans/blob/master/util.go#L72 19:47 < ajray> i really havent done much go in the past year though, so i'm reacclimating myself 19:47 < ajray> d'oh 19:47 < ajray> thanks KirkMcDonald 19:47 < KBme> that just prints incoming and outgoing messages 19:47 -!- tvw [~tv@e176007072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:47 < ajray> i missed that 19:48 < ajray> what do y'all use as code-diving tools while coding? 19:48 < ajray> (i'm in vim, so i'm used to cscope/ctags) 19:48 < KBme> this is what initiates the logger https://github.com/soul9/go-irc-chans/blob/master/irc.go#L288 19:48 < KirkMcDonald> ajray: I use vim, *, and #. 19:49 * KBme uses godoc -http=:8080 19:50 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has joined #go-nuts 19:50 < KBme> ajray: tell me what you think of go-irc-chans, tho 19:50 -!- decaf [~mehmet@95.15.18.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50 < ajray> KBme: i actually just forked it and am modifying it >.> 19:51 < KBme> oh heh 19:51 < aiju> ajray: "code diving tools"? 19:51 < ajray> i played around w/ IRC when i started playin w/ go 19:51 < ajray> KirkMcDonald: i have no idea what * and # are 19:51 < aiju> what's that supposed to be? 19:51 < KirkMcDonald> ajray: * and # search for the next and previous instances of the identifier current under the cursor. 19:51 < KirkMcDonald> currently* 19:52 < ajray> oh the vim commands. I thought they were plugins >.> 19:52 < KirkMcDonald> heh 19:52 < ajray> aiju: like tools to search around a codebase quickly 19:52 < aiju> i use grep 19:52 < KirkMcDonald> grep '\bfoo\b' is also useful. :-) 19:52 -!- jumzi [~jumzi@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:52 < ajray> if you hop in a huge project (e.g. the linux kernel) you gotta be able to find things quickly 19:52 < aiju> yeah 19:52 < aiju> grep 19:53 < ajray> i wonder if anyone has tried to port ctags/cscope to go 19:53 < KBme> ctags works with go iirc 19:53 < dforsyth_> isnt there a gotags? 19:53 < KBme> ajray: look in $GOROOT/misc, you'll find some interesting stuff there 19:53 < KirkMcDonald> And for Python, I've got a script that uses the Python tokenizer to do really exacting (if somewhat slow) searches. 19:54 < aiju> KirkMcDonald: really, why would you do that 19:54 < ajray> apparently theres a lot more in there since i last played with go 19:54 < aiju> grep 'def func' 19:54 < aiju> why are people afraid of simple tools which do the job well? 19:54 < jumzi> ALL THAT TYPING!? 19:54 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-30.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 19:54 < ajray> aiju: they work well until projects get supermassive 19:54 < aiju> "supermassive"? wtf? 19:54 < KirkMcDonald> aiju: grep works 99% of the time. 19:55 < ajray> like > 5M sloc codebases 19:55 < KirkMcDonald> aiju: But there's an occasional case where I want to look for an identifier which is also a word commonly used in comments. 19:55 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:55 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-30.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55 < jumzi> ajray: 5M sloc = rethink your programming 19:55 < ajray> or an operating system 19:55 < KirkMcDonald> aiju: Using the tokenizer permits me to match only the instances of the identifier. 19:55 < aiju> ajray: i've grepped all of Plan 9 19:55 < ajray> aiju: <3 plan 9 so much 19:56 < jumzi> But it's true, if you have to work in the linux kernel and you have NO IDEA how the files are sorted 19:56 < jumzi> then grep might be hard to work with to begin with 19:56 < KirkMcDonald> aiju: Basically, I use grep by default, and if it happens to return something that is a mess, this other tool might narrow it down. 19:56 < jumzi> But really, most often it should be logical enough 19:57 < aiju> i'd really rather see a tool which actually helps with the parts i spend most time with: thinking and debugging 19:57 < ajray> cscope/ctags create a nice database of where everything is, so its search time is like log(n) vs (n) for grep 19:58 < jumzi> I rather see a sophisticated gc 19:58 < ajray> aiju++ 19:59 < ajray> back to IRC fun 20:00 < ajray> (ive been using grep and its been successful, i just miss the 'jump to definition' ctags supplies) 20:00 < ajray> though it looks like gotags does that 20:01 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 20:03 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host109-155-1-133.range109-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:04 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-150-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07 -!- decaf [~mehmet@78.163.167.55] has joined #go-nuts 20:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/sRaDad by [Russ Cox] in 10 subdirs of go/ -- runtime: simpler heap map, memory allocation 20:12 -!- TheSeeker [~n@99-153-250-110.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:15 -!- wtfness [~dsc@89.211.140.13] has joined #go-nuts 20:16 -!- foocraft [~dsc@89.211.206.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 20:25 -!- pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-166-53.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:27 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-170-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:27 -!- illya77 [~illya77@193-23-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:36 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@c-69-181-223-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:38 -!- sonntag [~justinson@64-121-122-33.c3-0.smt-ubr1.atw-smt.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:45 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-30.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 20:47 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.66.102] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 20:47 -!- gudhbay_ [~gudhbay@187.114.209.152] has joined #go-nuts 20:51 -!- gudhbay [~gudhbay@187.114.146.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:56 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:56 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-30.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:04 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05 -!- grumpytoad [~niel@t1004.greatnet.de] has joined #go-nuts 21:18 -!- pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #go-nuts 21:19 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:28 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225148077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:34 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 21:35 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-30.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 21:45 -!- ShadowIce` [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:49 < pharris> Unary ^ on an untyped value results in a signed value. This surprises me. What is the reason for that? 21:49 < KirkMcDonald> Is it an untyped signed value? 21:49 < pharris> Aside from most other ops returning untyped values, I usually think of bitwise operations as unsigned. 21:50 < pharris> Seems to be, yes. 21:51 < KirkMcDonald> More generally, how would you expect an inversion to affect an untyped value? 21:51 < pharris> All bits set. 21:51 < KirkMcDonald> pharris: How many bits? 21:51 < pharris> All of them. 21:51 < KirkMcDonald> pharris: And what value would that be? 21:51 < pharris> As in, "var foo uint64; foo = ^0". 21:52 < pharris> In C, it's spelt "~0ull", but C doesn't have unsized values. 21:52 < aiju> pharris: yes, that's an annoying thing 21:52 < aiju> i define constants max32 and max64 and xor them 21:52 -!- illya77 [~illya77@193-23-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: illya77] 21:53 < pharris> -1 is the same length as ^0 for signed values, but 1 << 64 − 1 is a lot longer. 21:53 < pharris> (And breaks if you ever add a larger type) 21:53 < aiju> "a larger type"? 21:53 < aiju> constants are infinite precision 21:53 < pharris> uint128 21:53 < pharris> Right. So ^0 should be an infinite precision "all bits set", whereas "1 << 64 − 1" isn't. 21:54 < pharris> At least, to my way of thinking. 21:54 < aiju> yeah, but an infinite precision "all bits set" is -1 21:55 < pharris> prog.go:4: constant -1 overflows uint64 21:55 < pharris> func foo() uint64 { 21:55 < pharris> return ^0 21:55 < pharris> } 21:55 < aiju> pharris: yeah 21:56 < aiju> and -1 is not a valid unsigned int 21:56 < pharris> Right. So what's the infinite precision unsigned all bits set? 21:56 < aiju> i have no clue 21:56 < pharris> Okay. Thanks. 21:57 < aiju> just define a constant 21:57 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-30.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58 < pharris> I *am* trying to define a constant. 21:58 < aiju> const max64 uint64 = 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 21:58 < aiju> ugly, but does the job 21:58 < pharris> I can live with fixed sized constants. It just seems odd that Go forces the type to signed in this one corner case. 21:59 < aiju> yeah 22:00 < KirkMcDonald> An all-bits-set untyped constant would be a strange beast. 22:01 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:01 < pharris> KirkMcDonald: Aside from being assignable to an unsigned variable, how would it differ from −1? 22:02 < KirkMcDonald> pharris: It would be positive, for one thing. 22:02 < aiju> if allbitsset > 0 { // fuck 22:02 < KirkMcDonald> Would it be greater than an untyped constant equal to 2**32-1? 22:03 < KirkMcDonald> Suddenly assigning it to a uint32 would change that inequality, if that is so. 22:03 < aiju> it would overflow all variables 22:03 < KirkMcDonald> Could I subtract values from it, yielding an untyped constant equal to all-bits-set-minus 10? 22:04 < pharris> if allbitsset > 0 { // Right, not comparable. At all. This makes sense to me now. 22:04 < aiju> pharris: ^uint64(0) is vali 22:04 < aiju> *valid 22:04 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:04 < aiju> and yields what you want 22:05 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:05 < pharris> "A compiler may implement numeric constants by choosing an internal representation with at least twice as many bits as any machine type", so I expected at least 128 bits set in an implementation with uint64 present. 22:05 < pharris> But I can see now that using an untyped ^'d value in a comparison would be surprising. Thanks. 22:06 < pharris> (Quote was from http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Constants ) 22:06 < aiju> yeah, we know the spec by heart :P 22:07 -!- mattn_jp [~mattn@112-68-74-2f1.hyg1.eonet.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:07 < pharris> So to answer KirkMcDonald - Yes, I expected that you can subtract 10 from 2**128 without any trouble. 22:09 < pharris> (err, 2**129-1) 22:09 < aiju> i think the problem would be mainly assignment 22:09 < aiju> an infinite number of 1s overflows all types 22:10 < pharris> Indeed. 22:10 < pharris> I think my problem is that I'm too used to languages which ignore overflow. 22:11 < aiju> he 22:11 < aiju> *heh 22:11 < aiju> having 64 bit constants is real fun in C 22:11 < aiju> putting LL after all constants is obnoxious 22:12 < pharris> LL doesn't guarantee 64-bitness. You need to #include <stdint.h> and use __UINT64_C(x). And pray your target audience has a functional C99. 22:12 < aiju> pharris: i'm talking about programming C here 22:12 -!- sonntag [~justinson@64-121-122-33.c3-0.smt-ubr1.atw-smt.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: sonntag] 22:13 < aiju> not fapping to standards :P 22:13 < pharris> And, yes, it's far more obnoxious in C than Go. 22:13 < aiju> the standard mess in C is truly terrible 22:13 -!- sonntag [~justinson@64-121-122-33.c3-0.smt-ubr1.atw-smt.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:14 < pharris> aiju: Not really. The biggest problem with C99 is that MS still doesn't even try to implement it. 22:14 < aiju> i'm not talking about standards not being implemented 22:14 < aiju> i'm talking about standards sucking heavily 22:14 < pharris> (Pre-C99, you're right. There wasn't a standard 64-bit type) 22:15 < aiju> stdint.h is a good example 22:16 < pharris> aiju: No argument here. 22:16 < aiju> the C type system worked well on the PDP-11 22:18 < aiju> char (byte) and int (word) 22:18 < aiju> but beyond that it sucks 22:20 < pharris> aiju: Is C's "char" signed or unsigned? (Correct answer: The C standard sucks). 22:20 < aiju> yeah i know :P 22:21 < aiju> i don't mind the idea of leaving things unspecified too much 22:21 < aiju> (in the end you end up forcing a specific endianness lol) 22:21 < aiju> but the C standard clearly overdoes it 22:22 < aiju> although … pushing Big Endian back is always good 22:22 < aiju> one thing Intel *did* right 22:23 < aiju> judging from the rest of x86 i'd expect a mixed endian depending on the register size :P 22:25 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6tUZFk by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- runtime: select bug 22:39 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF70A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 22:45 -!- saschpe [~quassel@opensuse/member/saschpe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:53 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-30.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 22:54 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CEEA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:57 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 22:57 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@cpc2-lee23-0-0-cust152.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59 < Xenith> Anyone have issues compiling the 2011-01-20 release on OS X? It hangs during while testing net.a 23:00 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 23:00 < decaf> Xenith: probably it's dialgoogle_test 23:00 -!- emre_ [~emre@188.41.74.19] has joined #go-nuts 23:01 -!- schutzstaffel [~SS@85.110.228.28] has joined #go-nuts 23:01 < decaf> I don't have access to a few google ips, whatever reason 23:01 < schutzstaffel> hello people 23:01 < Xenith> Ah. Will it eventually time out? 23:02 < decaf> Xenith: that's what happened here 23:04 -!- schutzstaffel [~SS@85.110.228.28] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"] 23:05 <+iant> decaf: test is slightly broken, set DISABLE_NET_TESTS in the environment when building the release 23:06 < decaf> thanks, now I can see if other tests working 23:15 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-30.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has joined #go-nuts 23:16 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has left #go-nuts [] 23:16 -!- emre_ [~emre@188.41.74.19] has quit [Quit: emre_] 23:17 -!- idr [~idr@e179151169.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18 -!- emre [~emre@213.211.5.66] has joined #go-nuts 23:22 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-161-197.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24 < Xenith> Awesome, thanks. All updated now. 23:24 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:29 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.134.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31 -!- idr [~idr@e179153083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 23:34 -!- tvw [~tv@e176007072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host109-155-1-133.range109-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Scorchin] 23:43 -!- pharris [~Adium@rhgw.opentext.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46 -!- idr [~idr@e179153083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055149058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/AKTHkI by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/src/pkg/time/ -- time: Support Solaris zoneinfo directory. --- Log closed Sat Jan 29 00:00:05 2011