--- Log opened Fri Jul 08 00:00:44 2011 --- Day changed Fri Jul 08 2011 00:00 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 00:00 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 00:03 -!- kingless [~kingless@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:04 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@host86-162-228-176.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05 -!- yogib [~kaiser@dslb-188-100-015-022.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12 -!- serverhorror [~martin@krlh-5f721ee4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:14 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:28 -!- robteix [~robteix@host147.190-137-109.telecom.net.ar] has joined #go-nuts 00:41 -!- moraes [~moraes@189.103.188.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42 -!- i__ [~none@unaffiliated/i--/x-3618442] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:43 -!- i__ [~none@69.164.206.224] has joined #go-nuts 00:43 -!- franksalim [~frank@64-71-23-250.static.wiline.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:46 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Linkinus is updating...] 00:46 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:53 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:57 -!- Fish- [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:01 -!- Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:08 -!- rael_wiki [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/rael-wiki/x-8420294] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0a1/20110706030833]] 01:10 -!- ccc1 [~Adium@140.109.98.187] has joined #go-nuts 01:18 -!- i__ [~none@69.164.206.224] has quit [Changing host] 01:18 -!- i__ [~none@unaffiliated/i--/x-3618442] has joined #go-nuts 01:19 -!- markcol [~markcol@74.125.59.65] has joined #go-nuts 01:24 < markcol> Is it possible to reflect across a type to discover the methods that have been added to the type? I've looked through the reflection documentation and tried a number of different approaches but was not able to get it to work. 01:26 < markcol> Alternatively, is it possible to get the list of all methods and check the signatures for the appropriate type association if the methods aren't really "part of the type" per Go's object model? I noticed that the gotest program actually parses the text file to do function discovery, rather than using reflection. 01:27 < skelterjohn> angasule: one comment - you check for primes up to 8191 in the D program, and 9191 in the go program. in case you were wondering why they disagreed on the number found :) 01:27 < angasule> lol 01:27 < angasule> skelterjohn: thanks, but I didn't actually run the D program anyway 01:28 < angasule> the arr[] = 1 idiom confused the heck out of me at first 01:28 < skelterjohn> markcol: gotest parses the source because there is no way to use reflect to list all available functions 01:29 < skelterjohn> arr[] = 1? 01:29 < angasule> I think it'd cause too many errors, though... 01:29 < skelterjohn> i have no idea what that would mean 01:29 < angasule> in D, that idiom means "initialize all elements of the array to 1" 01:29 < angasule> I didn't either, had to search a bit 01:29 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:29 < skelterjohn> i see 01:30 < skelterjohn> fancy memset 01:30 < angasule> I found it horrible that that code uses 1 and 0 for true and false, not to mention the brace style 01:30 < skelterjohn> seems useful 01:30 < angasule> I had never seen that one before { somecode here 01:30 < markcol> skelterjohn: Seems like a pretty big hole? 01:30 -!- kevlar [~kevlar@70-90-168-189-SFBACalifornia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:30 -!- kevlar [~kevlar@70-90-168-189-SFBACalifornia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:30 -!- kevlar [~kevlar@unaffiliated/eko] has joined #go-nuts 01:30 < angasule> skelterjohn: until you type arr[] = blah instead of arr[i] = blah 01:32 -!- Tv__ [~Tv__@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:32 < angasule> I've been reading about Go, Scala and D (mostly just Go, though), and frankly I want to come back to programming in 50 years, where is my time machine? :-) 01:34 < cafesofie> if i had a time machine, i'd go to the distant future where you can program a browser without javascript 01:34 < cafesofie> that may be in about 50 years 01:35 < angasule> oh, yeah, die, javascript die :-) 01:43 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@c-68-42-82-10.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:45 -!- mcfuzz [~tj1776@c-67-180-244-115.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:45 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@204.14.152.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45 -!- Queue29 [~Queue29@egress-w.sfo1.yelpcorp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46 < skelterjohn> markcol: an acknowledged one. it's penciled in as a thing to add, i believe 01:47 < markcol> ah, ok 01:47 < skelterjohn> with understandably low priority 01:59 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 01:59 -!- jtoy [~jtoy@li167-197.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00 -!- franksalim [~frank@64-71-23-250.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00 -!- Count_Niedar [~bleh@ip68-99-166-222.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:04 -!- Niedar [~bleh@ip68-99-166-222.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:09 -!- squeese [~squeese@cm-84.209.17.156.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12 -!- smw [~stephen@unaffiliated/smw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:14 -!- robteix [~robteix@host147.190-137-109.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:19 < dgnorton> I wrote a small app, in go, that simulates one of the devices our software at work communicates with. Currently, it's just receiving the commands (via tcp), parsing them, and dumping to stdout. It's a simple line display device and I'd like to take the app one step further and render the text. I was thinking curses, since the commands look like "Wrrcc<text>" where 'W' is the write command, 'rr' is the row, 'cc' is the column, and then the text. Sugge 02:24 < Namegduf> https://github.com/nsf/termbox <- This might suit your needs. 02:24 < Namegduf> "ncurses, but simpler" 02:24 < Namegduf> I've not used it myself. 02:24 < mcfuzz> from what i recall, there may be portability issues with termbox 02:25 < mcfuzz> i haven't used it either, but i looked at the github page a while back and checked out the 'issues' section 02:30 < dgnorton> would be nice if it worked with the windows port of go 02:30 < mcfuzz> yea... 02:30 < mcfuzz> but it also apparently has OSX problems... 02:30 < Tv__> also, slang may be nicer than ncurses (dunno about go bindings) 02:31 < dgnorton> i wrote it in a linux VM but it currently works on windows ... would like to keep it that way if possible 02:32 < mcfuzz> for a simple log streamer with scrolling, i doubt an ncurses implementation will be hard 02:32 < dgnorton> OSX problems would be ok :P 02:33 < mcfuzz> i've used pycurses, and the curses API seems easy enough to deal with for stuff like that 02:35 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-182e3fca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:37 < mcfuzz> hrmph. the curses binding on godashboard seem to be dead or something though...https://github.com/jabb/gocurse 02:38 < mcfuzz> last commit was about 11 months ago 02:40 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 02:41 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-182e3fca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06 < dgnorton> saw that 03:10 < mcfuzz> i guess there is an active fork https://github.com/dforsyth/gocurse 03:15 -!- benjack [~benjack@bb119-74-99-26.singnet.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts 03:17 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 03:27 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-182e3fca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:31 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-25-35-2.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32 -!- keithcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-hludphcsactpneag] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:33 -!- mikespook 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has joined #go-nuts 07:24 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@mailgate.ips-international.com] has joined #go-nuts 07:25 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:38 -!- Kahvi [~Kahvi@a91-152-177-58.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #go-nuts 07:40 -!- fvbommel [~fvbommel_@86.86.15.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:43 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 07:46 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has joined #go-nuts 07:59 -!- fvbommel [~fvbommel_@86.86.15.250] has joined #go-nuts 08:05 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@183.47.231.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:11 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@183.47.231.26] has joined #go-nuts 08:19 -!- lurcio [~margent@compy386.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #go-nuts 08:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #go-nuts 08:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 08:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 08:46 -!- Jessica_Lily [~Jessica@85.211.48.121] has joined #go-nuts 08:46 -!- Jessica_Lily [~Jessica@85.211.48.121] has quit [Changing host] 08:46 -!- Jessica_Lily [~Jessica@unaffiliated/xray7224] has joined #go-nuts 08:53 -!- kfmfe04 [~kfeng@114-32-57-164.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 08:55 -!- lurcio [~margent@compy386.queens.ox.ac.uk] has left #go-nuts [] 09:02 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C5C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 09:03 -!- Kahvi [~Kahvi@a91-152-177-58.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03 -!- Kahvi [~Kahvi@a91-152-177-58.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #go-nuts 09:11 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-gewlxtkgtygmcruv] has joined #go-nuts 09:16 -!- noam [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:19 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C5C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22 < zozoR> is it possible to force the garbage collector to run? 09:22 < zozoR> somethilng like 09:22 < zozoR> OI.RUNGARBAGE() 09:23 < Kahvi> zozoR, http://golang.org/pkg/runtime/#GC 09:23 < zozoR> runtime.GC() 09:23 < zozoR> :3 09:24 < aiju> runtime contains lots of evil hackery functions 09:24 < zozoR> why evil? 09:25 < aiju> runtime.Alloc 09:25 < zozoR> "Free frees the block starting at the given pointer. FOR TESTING AND DEBUGGING ONLY." 09:25 < aiju> runtime.SetFinalizer 09:25 < zozoR> xD 09:31 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has left #go-nuts [] 09:33 -!- GeertJohan [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has joined #go-nuts 09:40 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.65.60] has joined #go-nuts 09:40 -!- ccc1 [~Adium@140.109.98.187] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-88-207.btc-net.bg] has joined #go-nuts 09:55 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@119.121.186.117] has joined #go-nuts 10:00 -!- rm445 [rm445@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00 -!- rm445 [rm445@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk] has joined #go-nuts 10:01 -!- Kahvi [~Kahvi@a91-152-177-58.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 10:05 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@183.47.231.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:06 -!- GeertJohan [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:06 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08 -!- GeertJohan [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has joined #go-nuts 10:09 -!- benjack [~benjack@bb119-74-99-26.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:17 -!- GeertJohan [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17 -!- GeertJohan1 [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has joined #go-nuts 10:20 -!- noam [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has joined #go-nuts 10:20 < zozoR> if i compile something i 8g and 8l, will it be runnable on other computers who would have to use 8g and 8l? 10:21 -!- fluf^arr [~camelid@s.pl0rt.org] has joined #go-nuts 10:22 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C5C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 10:22 -!- fluffle [~camelid@s.pl0rt.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24 -!- Kahvi [~Kahvi@a91-152-177-58.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #go-nuts 10:24 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C5C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24 -!- GeertJohan [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has joined #go-nuts 10:25 -!- GeertJohan1 [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:28 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-gewlxtkgtygmcruv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:30 -!- GS [~gsv@108-61-238-49.southernonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:35 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-njivttxsilgratka] has joined #go-nuts 10:37 -!- Smek [3e84e699@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.132.230.153] has joined #go-nuts 10:37 < Smek> Hello can anyone tell me if i can use gomake on windows? 10:38 -!- chanwit [~chanwit@223.207.15.213] has joined #go-nuts 10:39 < aiju> Smek: isn't gomake just a shell script to set variables before calling make? 10:40 < Smek> ok how can i make on windows i know on linux you simply call make in the terminal 10:41 < fzzbt> variables in the go program? 10:41 < Smek> where can i configure that? 10:42 < fzzbt> doesnt make just call gomake 10:42 < aiju> make variables 10:43 < Smek> i already made the GOARCH GOBIN GOOS and GOROOT vars i still cant call gomake 10:46 < aiju> Smek: you don't need these variables for gomae 10:46 < aiju> Smek: gomake is supposed to set those 10:46 < aiju> just call make 10:46 -!- moraes [~moraes@189.103.188.201] has joined #go-nuts 10:46 < Smek> ok i give it a try thanks guys 10:47 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 10:48 < fzzbt> is there a way for the compiler/make script/whatever to set variables in the go program (eg. set DEBUG = true)? 10:48 < fzzbt> like in C you had a DEBUG macro 10:49 < aiju> i doubt it 10:50 < str1ngs> fzzbt: export DEBUG:=true 10:50 -!- GS [~gsv@108-61-238-49.southernonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50 < str1ngs> fzzbt: for Makefile 10:50 < aiju> str1ngs: wtf? 10:50 < fzzbt> uh 10:51 < aiju> i doubt that this works 10:51 < str1ngs> fzzbt: os.Getenv("DEBUG") 10:51 < fzzbt> create file debug.go and then put "DEBUG = true" there and just not compile that file when not debugging? 10:51 < str1ngs> fzzbt: double check syntax 10:51 < aiju> fzzbt: haha that's one way 10:51 < aiju> fzzbt: but you need two files, then 10:51 < aiju> debug.go and nodebug.go 10:52 < Smek> when i call make make.exe from borland is called 10:52 < aiju> Smek: you need GNU make 10:52 < str1ngs> fzzbt: use enviroment variables 10:52 < Smek> ok thanks 10:53 < fzzbt> str1ngs: but then im doing the debug checking runtime and not compile-time? 10:53 < str1ngs> how are you debugging compile time 10:54 < aiju> str1ngs: i just put things like this in a file 10:54 < aiju> eh 10:54 < aiju> *fzz 10:54 < aiju> *fzzbt 10:54 < aiju> fzzbt: http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/source/browse/sys/src/cmd/5e/dat.h like at the bottom of this one 10:55 < aiju> (yes, it's c) 10:59 -!- nicka1 [~lerp@142.176.0.21] has joined #go-nuts 11:00 -!- GeertJohan [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00 -!- GeertJohan [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has joined #go-nuts 11:05 -!- opt [~opt@174.3.227.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:11 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 11:17 -!- chanwit [~chanwit@223.207.15.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:21 -!- gnuvince|work [8e544424@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.84.68.36] has joined #go-nuts 11:27 -!- alehorst [~alehorst@189.115.80.233] has joined #go-nuts 11:27 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.90.11] has joined #go-nuts 11:30 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.65.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:35 -!- GeertJohan [~Squarc@clal-5-212.eduroam.inholland.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:36 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39 -!- Smek [3e84e699@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.132.230.153] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:40 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.59.128.192.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 11:43 < erus`> aiju: what is the timezone where you live? 11:46 -!- ancientlore [~ancientlo@ip68-110-238-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:47 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.59.128.192.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:48 < str1ngs> I'm about to use the reflect package.. I'm worried :( 11:52 < zozoR> yay 11:56 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 11:59 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.115.131.32] has joined #go-nuts 12:02 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:02 -!- jsj [~johan@78-70-253-105-no149.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:07 -!- jsj [~johan@78-70-253-105-no149.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:07 < aiju> 13:50 < erus`> aiju: what is the timezone where you live? 12:07 < aiju> CET 12:12 -!- chanwit [~chanwit@223.207.15.213] has joined #go-nuts 12:12 -!- dario [~dario@domina.zerties.org] has joined #go-nuts 12:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-88-207.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:16 < aiju> this tag shit 12:16 < aiju> is this a fucking joke 12:17 < aiju> at least it's not XML 12:17 < str1ngs> the key:value change? 12:18 < aiju> what's that? 12:18 < aiju> i mean this 12:18 -!- angasule [~angasule@190.2.33.49] has joined #go-nuts 12:18 < aiju> struct { x int "yo dawg i heard you liked fields without effect" } 12:19 < skelterjohn> lol 12:19 < str1ngs> lol 12:19 < aiju> i'll write Hitler quotes in it in my code 12:19 < skelterjohn> i'm not surprised 12:19 < aiju> struct { x int "DAS WAR EIN BEFEHL"; y string "Sie nennen sich Generäle, weil sie Jahre auf einer Militärakademie zugebract haben" } 12:20 -!- jsj [~johan@78-70-253-105-no149.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21 -!- ananamoose [~ajoe47@72.25.60.79] has joined #go-nuts 12:21 < aiju> i'm still curiouis 12:21 < aiju> 14:24 < str1ngs> the key:value change? 12:21 < aiju> what are you talking about? 12:21 < str1ngs> they changed the tag format 12:21 < aiju> where? 12:21 < aiju> i'm not seeing it in the spac 12:21 < aiju> *spec 12:22 < str1ngs> its not well documented yet 12:23 < str1ngs> ap values encode as JSON objects. The map's key type must be string; the object keys are used directly as map keys. 12:23 < str1ngs> grr bad paste 12:24 < aiju> ah 12:24 < aiju> now i can put multiple quotes in it 12:24 < aiju> x int `Hitler:"..." `Nietzsche:"..." 12:25 < str1ngs> this is useful though for things like db abstraction 12:26 -!- ananamoose [~ajoe47@72.25.60.79] has left #go-nuts ["Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/"] 12:26 < photron> whats this string after the type supposed to be? some form off comment? 12:27 < str1ngs> I guess it will very 12:27 < aiju> photron: it's a place to put Hitler quotes or JSON field names 12:27 < photron> str1ngs: so you can access it via reflect, or how is it supposed to work? 12:27 < jlaffaye> what was wrong with the name of the go struct field? 12:27 < aiju> photron: yes 12:27 < aiju> jlaffaye: it's not hip 12:27 < str1ngs> photron: yes 12:28 < str1ngs> jlaffaye: go struct fields do not always map well. ie Name != name LastName != last_name 12:29 < str1ngs> oh ya and structs do not map well to xml 12:29 < jlaffaye> so its useful if you have to interact with an existing format, not when you are creating it 12:29 < str1ngs> but thats an xml issue 12:29 < aiju> hahaha 12:29 < aiju> xml sucks but this is a lame excuse 12:29 < str1ngs> but key:value might help it 12:30 < photron> so you extend the language to make structs better serializable? 12:30 < str1ngs> I'm not advocating it. just giving some examples where it might be useful 12:30 < aiju> str1ngs: you didn't get my point 12:30 < aiju> "structs don't map well to xml, hence xml is broken" 12:31 -!- sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has joined #go-nuts 12:31 < str1ngs> yes xml is broken. but that doesnt stop buisness from using it 12:31 < str1ngs> hey customer fuck off xml is broken.. doesnt go over well 12:31 < aiju> you're still not getting it 12:32 < aiju> it's hardly a problem with xml if you try to map structs blindly to it 12:32 < photron> one reason why i hate xml is because i can never decide which thinks to put in attributes and which in elements 12:32 < aiju> i didn't mean to spark off a fucking xml flame 12:32 < str1ngs> ok then use something other then xml 12:32 < str1ngs> as an example 12:33 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 12:33 < photron> i like json, because it maps better to the typical datastructures you have in most languages 12:33 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:33 < nsf> YAML ftw 12:33 < nsf> :) 12:33 < aiju> hahhahaha 12:33 < photron> he's back 12:33 < aiju> YAML is even worse 12:33 < nsf> aiju: I like yaml 12:34 < str1ngs> nsf: same here 12:34 < nsf> I know spec looks scary 12:34 < nsf> but after reading it 12:34 < str1ngs> not for everything tough 12:34 < nsf> it makes sense 12:34 < photron> also i like json because its minimal 12:34 < aiju> i like FUCKING TEXT 12:34 < dlowe> kinky 12:35 < nsf> aiju: sure, but writing custom parsers each time is for real men only 12:35 < aiju> why do people wrap anything in 10 layers of standards 12:35 < aiju> with 1000 pages of spec each 12:35 < nsf> yaml is simple actually :) 12:35 < aiju> nsf: fmt.Scan("fuck off %s this lame excuse sucks %d %d horribly")_ 12:35 < aiju> *, ...) 12:35 < nsf> well, that may work too 12:36 < nsf> but if you have tree-like data 12:36 < nsf> Scanf isn't the best choice 12:36 < nsf> json, yaml, xml, whatever 12:36 < nsf> all wroks 12:36 < nsf> works* 12:36 < nsf> yaml is just the easiest to edit with an editor here 12:36 < photron> aiju: depends on how much structure you need to preserve. if there is not much structure then i use simple line base scanf-able formats 12:37 < nsf> and it backwards compatible with json :D 12:38 < str1ngs> nsf: define backwards though 12:38 < nsf> json is valid yaml 12:38 < str1ngs> you cant use the json package 12:38 < str1ngs> ah ok see waht you mean 12:38 < nsf> or is it called forward compatible 12:38 < nsf> I don't know :) 12:38 < aiju> compatibility fucking sucks 12:38 < str1ngs> man give it a rest 12:39 < photron> nsf means subset, not backwards compatible 12:39 < aiju> it means you're just adding more crap on an existing standard 12:39 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.223.87] has joined #go-nuts 12:39 < aiju> but i'll shut up now, i have better things to do 12:39 < photron> like fighting c#? 12:39 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Ping timeout: 624 seconds] 12:40 < nsf> "This is also the case in practice; every JSON file is also a valid YAML file." 12:40 < aiju> yeah 12:40 < nsf> YAML spec 12:40 < nsf> whatever it means 12:40 < jessta> yaml was modified so that it's a superset of json 12:40 < str1ngs> nsf: ya so in theory a yaml parser can parse json. but json parser can not parse yaml 12:40 < nsf> str1ngs: yes 12:41 < str1ngs> stupid json :P 12:41 < jessta> but the json doesn't really fit well in to yaml 12:42 < nsf> whatever 12:42 < nsf> I have everything 12:42 < nsf> :) 12:42 < aiju> one last word on the subject 12:42 < aiju> http://yaml.org/spec/1.2/spec.html 12:42 < aiju> FUUUUUUUUUUCK 12:43 < nsf> it's big, but read it, seriously :) 12:43 < str1ngs> I'm going to write a yaml package, license it GPL3 and make it build with autotools just to piss aiju off 12:43 < str1ngs> oh and only work on linux 12:43 < str1ngs> yaml_linux.go everything 12:43 < nsf> lol 12:44 < aiju> hahaha 12:44 < aiju> you'll make me fucking laugh with that 12:44 < nsf> I've heard someone writes minecraft server in Go 12:44 < nsf> who knows something about it? :) 12:44 < exch> chunkymonkey 12:45 * nsf is curious about parallelization of chunks processing 12:45 < exch> dunno if it works 12:45 -!- sniper506th [~sniper506@rrcs-70-61-192-18.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:46 -!- rzoz [801d2b02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.29.43.2] has joined #go-nuts 12:46 < nsf> lighting is more or less clear, but other processes like lava/water/fire are interesting 12:46 -!- Dr_Who [~tgall_foo@linaro/tgall-foo] has joined #go-nuts 12:46 < nsf> also minecraft server may eat a lot of memory 12:46 < nsf> chunks compressing on the fly? 12:46 < nsf> something simple like RLE may work 12:47 < exch> it's a minecraft alpha server. it won't work with current map format afaik 12:47 < nsf> exch: it contains few files named NBT 12:48 < nsf> I think it's the new map format 12:48 < nsf> in beta 12:48 < exch> Well, one wa to find out I guess 12:48 < exch> *way 12:48 < dlowe> The canonical minecraft server is the only one that's really usable for gameplay 12:49 < nsf> true 12:49 < nsf> even though it's buggy 12:49 < dlowe> There's parallel simulation in the server and the client that's hard to replicate 12:49 < aiju> i thought minecraft has turned into just watching it fail by now 12:50 < nsf> "So far 10,277,715 people have registered and 2,737,152 people bought the game." 12:50 < nsf> it's not a fail, definitely 12:50 < nsf> at least commercially :D 12:50 < aiju> nsf: i mean as in bugs 12:50 < aiju> the last time i played my inventory kept disappearing 12:50 < nsf> but it's buggy, yes 12:51 < nsf> it works fine in singleplayer though 12:51 < nsf> it's the major problem of all indie games 12:51 < exch> buggy or not. its still a great deal of fun 12:51 < aiju> i disagree 12:51 < nsf> no :( 12:51 < nsf> it's boring 12:51 < aiju> it used to be fun 12:52 < nsf> one-two weeks of fun and that's it 12:52 < nsf> you know all the game 12:52 < nsf> you were in nether 12:52 < exch> I loves it. ot the mining or crafting though. Just running my own server with some friends and we just build to our heart's content 12:52 < nsf> you know all the recipes 12:52 < dlowe> I'm enjoying making piston machines 12:52 < nsf> I want gameplay 12:52 < aiju> stuff like the nether is a pretty stupid concept 12:53 < exch> We basically run creative mode but with mobs 12:53 < nsf> aiju: uhm, why? 12:53 < aiju> it doesn't really add to the gameplay 12:53 < nsf> true, but the idea of multiple "planets" for a game like this is ok 12:53 < nsf> I mean just different settings for world generator 12:53 < nsf> but minecraft lacks gameplay 12:54 < nsf> many have noticed that it's just a sandbox 12:54 < nsf> for example there is a 2d "clone" terraria 12:54 < nsf> which isn't really a clone 12:54 < nsf> because it has gameplay 12:54 < nsf> it has bosses and other kind of fun 12:55 < nsf> and I have my own vision on a proper gameplay for a game like that :D 12:55 < exch> minecraft never claimed it had gameplay thogh. Mojang put up a blog post a few days ago with some info on the actual gameplay elements which should be added in a few eeks/months 12:55 < nsf> exch: adventure mode? 12:55 < aiju> i'm fine with a sandbox game 12:56 < exch> something like that, yea. I didnt boher reading it tbh 12:56 < nsf> adventure mode afaik takes out all the sandboxing features, you won't be able to change blocks :) 12:56 < nsf> just run around 12:56 < exch> The reason I like minecraft is that it reminds me of Lego. Amything else in it is not neccesary for me:p 12:56 < nsf> the tricky part here is a gameplay which uses blocks building/removing feature 12:57 < nsf> exch: hehe, yes, there is a similarity definitely 12:59 < nsf> http://ompldr.org/vOWFycw/2011-06-30-220902_800x600_scrot.png 12:59 < nsf> :P 13:00 < nsf> blocks are boring though :P 13:02 < erus`> real time mesh deformations would use less memory than a 3d array of blocks 13:03 < erus`> and LOD is easy 13:03 < erus`> call it digmake 13:03 < erus`> make a cool 10 million euros 13:03 < erus`> become a neckbeard idol 13:03 < nsf> http://ompldr.org/vOWVsdg/2011-07-08-190908_1024x768_scrot.png 13:03 < nsf> mountains :P 13:03 < nsf> erus`: I guess it's true 13:04 < nsf> I replayed red faction 1 recently 13:04 < nsf> year 2002! 13:04 < nsf> their geomod was really nice at that time 13:04 < nsf> for some reason though it wasn't a break through like half-life 13:05 < nsf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo-Mod 13:05 < nsf> erus`: but! 13:06 < nsf> the thing about blocks is other processes 13:06 < nsf> like lava/water/fire simulation 13:06 < nsf> other kind of blocks interaction 13:06 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:07 < nsf> all of that is much harder in custom-shaped 3d worlds 13:07 < erus`> just use particles 13:07 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:07 -!- ccc1 [~Adium@114-45-84-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:07 < nsf> and lighting also 13:07 < nsf> yes, it's fake in minecraft 13:08 < nsf> but gives some value to the gameplay 13:08 < nsf> with custom-shaped mesh what can you do? 13:08 < erus`> people do real time lighting in complex 3d environments 13:09 < nsf> erus`: yes, but in minecraft it's a part of gameplay also, plant grows when it has some light, monster appears when there is darkness around 13:09 < nsf> all these cool real time lighting is on GPU 13:09 < nsf> and it involves a lot of faking 13:10 < nsf> being fully on CPU has its own pros 13:10 < nsf> not speaking about really simple collision detection and physics 13:11 < chanwit> hi all 13:11 < nsf> http://ompldr.org/vOWEybw/2011-06-29-165026_800x600_scrot.png 13:11 < nsf> I actually tried raytracing :) 13:11 < gmilleramilar> hey! nsf is back! 13:11 < erus`> dont get me wrong i enjoy minecraft 13:11 < chanwit> I am wondering how could I get Go's version using some APIs? 13:11 < aiju> chanwit: runtime.Version? 13:12 < nsf> gmilleramilar: :) 13:12 < gmilleramilar> word was that you had moved on to greener pastures. 13:12 < erus`> nsf did you write your own maths library? 13:12 < nsf> gmilleramilar: I was always around, just not on this channel 13:12 < chanwit> aiju: yes. like weekly.2011-06-23 8864 13:12 < nsf> erus`: yep, it's old 13:12 < aiju> chanwit: runtime.Version 13:12 < erus`> i wrote one too :) 13:13 < nsf> erus`: https://github.com/nsf/lib99/blob/master/linear_math.h 13:13 < nsf> some bits of it 13:13 < chanwit> aiju: oh I see. thanks for it. 13:13 < erus`> nsf i thought this was go 13:13 < nsf> I'm not writing Go though :D 13:13 < nsf> erus`: I guess, yeah 13:13 < nsf> it's #go-nuts after all :D 13:14 < nsf> but no, I write C 13:15 -!- JimPeak [~lejimpeak@modemcable213.208-160-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #go-nuts 13:15 < nsf> erus`: Go is nice, but for 3d stuff, probably isn't the best choice 13:15 < chanwit> aiju: thanks again the package contains all things I'm looking for :) 13:16 -!- lurcio [~margent@compy386.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #go-nuts 13:16 < nsf> garbage collection => nasty pauses 13:17 < nsf> minecraft suffers from that, magicka suffers from that and these are two games I know written in (Java/C#) 13:17 < zozoR> nsf, use runtime.Malloc and free? :P 13:17 < nsf> zozoR: I don't believe in mixing GC with malloc/free 13:17 < nsf> maybe it will work though, I don't know 13:18 < nsf> but I'm pretty sure it's fairly easy to have > 5ms pauses with GC 13:18 < nsf> and that's it basically 13:18 < nsf> with CPU hungry game it will cause lags 13:19 < zozoR> i suppose go never will be a game language and games have to be written in non-garbage collected ones 13:19 < nsf> yes 13:19 < nsf> but Go may work for servers 13:19 < nsf> as it was designed for that :) 13:19 < zozoR> they could add a feature that could turn off the GB :D 13:19 < zozoR> GC* 13:20 < aiju> zozoR: won't work 13:20 < nsf> zozoR: again, it's the same as mixing GC/non-GC 13:20 < nsf> what about libraries? 13:20 < nsf> it's like C++ 13:20 < nsf> mixing exceptions with non-exceptions code 13:20 < nsf> no-exceptions* 13:20 < nsf> you can't basically do that 13:21 < zozoR> oh well 13:21 < nsf> things like garbage collection, reference counting, exceptions affect the whole system at once 13:21 < zozoR> its just.. go is so awesome : | 13:21 < zozoR> why cant it be used for everything 13:21 < chanwit> nsf: as far as I know, Unreal engine uses something call UnrealScript and it's a GCed language. 13:21 < nsf> chanwit: yes, lua is GCed too 13:21 < aiju> 15:24 < nsf> minecraft suffers from that, magicka suffers from that and these are two games I know written in (Java/C#) 13:21 < nsf> and it's used often in games 13:21 < aiju> TWO EXAMPLES? 13:21 < aiju> must be true! 13:21 < nsf> aiju: I don't play Java/C# games a lot 13:21 < nsf> will check out terraria soon though 13:22 < nsf> we'll see :D 13:22 < aiju> 15:24 < nsf> minecraft suffers from that, magicka suffers from that and these are two games I know written in (Java/C#) 13:22 < aiju> ah fuck 13:22 < nsf> chanwit: the difference here is: control 13:22 < nsf> both Lua and UnrealScript are executed in tiny environments 13:22 < jessta> nsf: I wonder if changes to the code in those games might fix the GC pause issues 13:22 < nsf> pretty much like javascript in browsers 13:23 < aiju> jessta: exactly 13:23 < nsf> jessta: maybe 13:23 < nsf> but you see 13:23 < nsf> the only way to fix it 13:23 < nsf> is manual memory management :) 13:23 < chanwit> nsf: I agree. Java's GC is a beast. 13:23 < jessta> not really, the only way to fix it is to think about how you're using memory 13:23 < nsf> basically you don't allocate memory in a rendering loop 13:23 < nsf> and it works 13:24 < nsf> but it's manual memory management 13:24 < jessta> the GC is only run during allocation 13:24 < nsf> jessta: thinking won't change anything :D you should do that :D 13:24 < nsf> jessta: yes, but if you don't allocate, there is no GC 13:24 < nsf> and that's what I'm saying 13:24 < aiju> no, you're using terms wrong 13:25 < nsf> maybe 13:25 < jessta> it's not manual memory management, it's memory management using a GC 13:25 < nsf> jessta: I don't think such thing exists 13:25 < aiju> GCs -- just science fiction 13:26 < jessta> nsf: see russ' post about profiling Go code 13:26 < nsf> well, you can be careful, but it's like hunting memory leaks in an app which were written without a single "free" call 13:26 < nsf> jessta: I don't like Russ 13:26 < nsf> :) 13:26 < nsf> and that example was a benchmark 13:26 < nsf> he should try that in big codebase 13:27 < jessta> C had a big problem with it's lack of a GC, it made third party librries a huge pain to use 13:28 < nsf> "had" 13:28 < nsf> C is not dead 13:28 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:28 < zozoR> nsf, how is your compiler comming along? 13:28 < nsf> zozoR: it's uhm.. frozen 13:28 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-25-35-2.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 13:29 < zozoR> why 13:29 < zozoR> : | 13:29 < nsf> I don't understand all things I need to understand 13:29 < nsf> in order to finish it :) 13:29 < jessta> nsf: yeah, people stopped using third party libraries and instead made massive libraries of their own 13:29 < erus`> compiling what? 13:29 < chanwit> nsf: I'm one of your gollvm's user, anyway. 13:29 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@119.121.186.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:29 -!- ArgonneIntern [~gauge@mcswl144.mcs.anl.gov] has joined #go-nuts 13:30 < nsf> chanwit: nice, I haven't touched it since I wrote it though :) 13:30 < ArgonneIntern> hello everyone! back from my interview! 13:30 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:30 < nsf> jessta: just a lack of good libraries 13:30 < nsf> especially in C++ it's a very big problem :) 13:30 -!- go^lang [~newblue@113.84.207.144] has joined #go-nuts 13:30 < nsf> erus`: krawl :) 13:31 < nsf> erus`: https://github.com/nsf/krawl 13:31 < zozoR> nsf, cant you just fork the golanguage and remove the garbage collector? 13:31 < nsf> it's an experimental project doing low level language with Go syntax 13:31 < nsf> zozoR: no 13:31 < nsf> Go needs GC 13:31 < jessta> zozoR: none of the libraries would work 13:31 < nsf> it has these features like channels 13:31 < nsf> and interfaces 13:31 < nsf> and goroutines 13:31 < jessta> maps, slices etc. also wouldn't work 13:32 < nsf> they do require GC 13:32 < nsf> I don't hate GC, I just think it doesn't fit in some places :) 13:33 < nsf> zozoR: the biggest app written in krawl: https://github.com/nsf/krawl/blob/master/examples/tetris.krl 13:33 < nsf> it actually works :) 13:34 < chanwit> so probably forking go/parser and let it generate C codes? 13:34 < aiju> if you want C 13:34 < nsf> chanwit: might work 13:34 < aiju> WRITE FUCKING C 13:34 < nsf> aiju: yeah, that's one of my thoughts lately as well 13:34 < nsf> I'm not sure there is a place for another low level language :) 13:35 < nsf> at least not at this moment 13:35 < zozoR> but C is horrible :( 13:35 < nsf> but even Herb Sutter speaks about introducing pascal-like declarations in C++ :) 13:35 < nsf> I mean people realize that C/C++ syntax is broken 13:35 < nsf> it needs to be fixed 13:36 < nsf> but it's a big problem 13:36 < chanwit> zozoR: yes it is. 13:36 < nsf> zozoR: it's stable and well known 13:36 -!- squeese [~squeese@cm-84.209.17.156.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 13:36 < aiju> what the fuck is wrong with C syntax 13:36 < nsf> aiju: it's context-dependent :) 13:37 < zozoR> would it be possible to take the C compiler, and fuck with the thing.. lexer? and make new syntax? 13:37 < nsf> very hard to parse without knowing all the flags and all the include stuff 13:37 < nsf> etc. 13:37 < nsf> wait, not just "hard" 13:37 < nsf> impossible 13:37 < chanwit> nsf: what's about this: http://live.gnome.org/Vala ? 13:37 < nsf> zozoR: it's possible 13:37 < aiju> zozoR: except that fucking with gcc is a horrible nightmare 13:37 < nsf> chanwit: repeats all C mistakes :) 13:37 < aiju> god, i'm getting trolled by you again 13:37 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.104.187] has joined #go-nuts 13:37 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 13:38 -!- Jessica_Lily [~Jessica@unaffiliated/xray7224] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:38 < nsf> chanwit: one of the things I'd like to get rid of in C 13:38 < nsf> is switch statement as it is now 13:38 < nsf> Vala/C#/Java I think all just copy & paste it from C 13:38 < nsf> e.g. all the "break"s here 13:38 < nsf> even scripting languages! 13:38 < nsf> http://squirrel-lang.org/ 13:38 < aiju> it's worst in c# 13:38 < aiju> break; is basically required by syntax 13:39 < nsf> <- that one has breaks in switch statements as well 13:39 -!- Jessica_Lily [~Jessica@unaffiliated/xray7224] has joined #go-nuts 13:39 < nsf> and I haven't checked operator precedence in Vala 13:39 < nsf> since they're generating C 13:39 < nsf> I think they're using C's operator precedence 13:39 < aiju> vala is based on glib 13:39 < nsf> on gobject to be precise 13:40 < nsf> gobject is based on glib :) 13:40 < nsf> I use glib too btw 13:40 < aiju> whatever 13:40 < nsf> :D 13:40 < aiju> all this g* crap sucks horribly 13:40 < nsf> no 13:41 < nsf> it's hard to find a decent C library with async queue and threads, which is tested on multiple platforms and works 13:41 < nsf> and glib has other useful stuff :) 13:41 < nsf> like GHashMap 13:41 < nsf> aiju: of course you implement hash maps by hand 13:41 < nsf> real men do that 13:41 < aiju> haha 13:41 < aiju> i just was about to get out an example 13:42 < nsf> I've seen many of these 13:42 < nsf> hash maps and quick sorts written by hand 13:42 < aiju> http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/source/browse/sys/src/cmd/pstree.c 13:42 < nsf> yeah, exactly like that :) 13:43 < aiju> most work was the descend() function to print stuff 13:43 < nsf> it's easy to make a fixed-size hash map 13:44 < nsf> I prefer APIs :) 13:44 < zippoxer> there's no Qt binding for Go right? 13:44 < skelterjohn|work> there is 13:45 < skelterjohn|work> look at the dashboard 13:45 < zippoxer> what :O 13:45 < aiju> QObjectFactoryGeneratorClassSingleton 13:45 < nsf> :D 13:45 < nsf> aiju: Qt isn't that bad 13:45 < photron> aiju: you really dislike a lot of thinks 13:45 < zippoxer> ctrl f Qt 13:45 < zippoxer> = not found 13:46 < photron> nsf: true 13:46 < nsf> the only thing I dislike about it 13:46 < nsf> that it's quite slow to compile 13:46 < nsf> well, as everything written in C++ 13:46 < zippoxer> if it was pure Go :-) 13:47 < nsf> I would make a gui in pygtk 13:47 < zozoR> if people used go, they would be out of jobs because of efficient working 13:47 < aiju> i have some plans for a nice gui library in go style 13:47 < skelterjohn|work> oh i meant gtk, not qt 13:47 < aiju> but i hate fucking with x11 13:47 < skelterjohn|work> i always forget which is which 13:48 < chanwit> Go needs some more syntactic sugars for GUI. 13:48 < aiju> no, it needs a good library, that's all 13:48 < nsf> GUI needs a DSL :D 13:48 < zippoxer> right, it needs no gtk 13:48 < zippoxer> Qt or something 13:48 < str1ngs> qt lol 13:48 < aiju> i haven't seen a way to do GUIs which doesn't suck 13:48 < nsf> Qt has started to make their own DSL for gui 13:49 < nsf> called QML 13:49 < skelterjohn|work> DSL = ? 13:49 < nsf> domain specific language 13:49 < chanwit> nsf: right, Go needs to be a good DSL host. 13:49 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: domain specific language 13:49 < str1ngs> domain specific language 13:49 < nsf> :D 13:49 < aiju> chanwit: goyacc, there you go 13:49 < str1ngs> to slow :( 13:49 < skelterjohn|work> is it, domain specific language? 13:50 < nsf> skelterjohn|work: what exactly? 13:50 < chanwit> button.OnClick = func(e Event){ } is bad when thing's getting complex. 13:50 < nsf> I mean we need GUI DSL 13:50 < aiju> chanwit: event based programming just sucks 13:50 < aiju> we have channels 13:51 < zippoxer> nsf: you mean a designer that will generate GUI DSL? 13:51 < chanwit> aiju: is channel fit GUI programming model? 13:51 < nsf> I mean DSL for GUI :) 13:51 < zippoxer> chanwit: ofc. Qt uses it 13:51 < nsf> I absolutely have no idea how it will look like 13:51 < aiju> zippoxer: not really 13:51 -!- angasule [~angasule@190.2.33.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52 < zippoxer> aiju: but the idea is the same 13:52 < aiju> chanwit: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/squeak/ 13:52 < chanwit> zippoxer: Qt uses slots. it's event-driven style. 13:52 < aiju> chanwit: pike wrote many papers on that one 13:52 -!- yogib [~yogib@131.234.59.64] has quit [Quit: yogib] 13:53 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-njivttxsilgratka] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:53 < chanwit> aiju: it's great! probably it's that someone called concurrent software architecture. 13:53 -!- kergoth__ [~kergoth@ip24-251-173-232.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:54 -!- rzoz [801d2b02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.29.43.2] has left #go-nuts [] 13:56 < nsf> ugh, ok, enough trolling for today, see ya :) 13:56 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has left #go-nuts ["WeeChat 0.3.5"] 13:57 < aiju> chanwit: as i said, i started work on something 13:57 < aiju> the basic idea is something like NewButton returning a channel of events 13:57 < aiju> you can get back to classical events by using a massive select statements 13:58 < aiju> or just use the channels in an appropriate goroutine 13:59 < chanwit> aiju: sound great! with this, you can just chain events by putting values into the channels. 13:59 < skelterjohn|work> something that i'd like to work on if i had the time 13:59 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-bbgqrvnkyteppouh] has joined #go-nuts 13:59 -!- chanwit [~chanwit@223.207.15.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:02 < zippoxer> aiju: but the gui itself (not the interface) you're going to write yourself or use some C/C++ library? 14:03 < skelterjohn|work> if it's not pure go, it's not nearly as useful 14:06 -!- napsy [~luka@193.2.66.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06 < aiju> zippoxer: i was using xcb 14:06 < aiju> so it was pure go 14:07 < skelterjohn|work> does that mean when it runs on mac, it runs in an X11 app? :\ 14:07 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:07 < aiju> yes 14:07 < aiju> that's on purpse 14:07 < skelterjohn|work> boo. 14:07 < aiju> just to piss off mac users 14:07 < aiju> jk 14:07 < aiju> you can add other backends 14:08 < aiju> i have no clue why macusers hate x11 apps so much 14:08 < str1ngs> they are nice but slow 14:09 < str1ngs> ie rxvt is really slow compared to say Terminal 14:09 < skelterjohn|work> aiju: because they all get grouped into one x11 app 14:09 -!- franciscosouza [~francisco@187.117.133.160] has joined #go-nuts 14:09 < skelterjohn|work> and that is not really how macs work 14:10 < skelterjohn|work> i worked on a mac draw thing a while back - it loaded up a window in which you could draw a bitmap, behaved nicely with the mac app system, etc 14:10 < skelterjohn|work> but i didn't feel like mapping to the existing event model 14:15 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.84.53] has joined #go-nuts 14:17 < zippoxer> this project aiju has in mind probably needs > 1 members 14:17 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.90.11] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:17 < zippoxer> but not for the base 14:17 < aiju> haha 14:18 < zippoxer> which i think aiju should implement by himself :) 14:18 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 14:18 < aiju> as i said 14:18 < aiju> i find working with X11 less appealing than pouring lye over my arm 14:18 -!- franciscosouza [~francisco@187.117.133.160] has quit [Quit: franciscosouza] 14:18 < str1ngs> I like the xcb idea, but make your own widgets going to be hell 14:18 < zippoxer> lol 14:19 < zippoxer> so you probably like lye ;) 14:20 < zippoxer> love* 14:20 < str1ngs> he doesnt like anything 14:20 < str1ngs> from what I have seen :P 14:20 < zozoR> he does like go 14:20 < go^lang> Which rev best for product devel ? 14:20 < zippoxer> release? 14:20 < str1ngs> release of course 14:20 < zippoxer> latest release? 14:21 < ArgonneIntern> does go have any kind of safety in goroutines that allow them to finish before your main routine does? For example if run several go routines and then my program ends, will the routines finish first? 14:21 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.69.106] has joined #go-nuts 14:21 < aiju> ArgonneIntern: no 14:21 < aiju> ArgonneIntern: ending main kills all go routines 14:21 < skelterjohn|work> you need to send a signal with channels 14:22 < str1ngs> case <-abort: parachute() 14:22 < zippoxer> select {} is the best way to keep main alive 14:22 < skelterjohn|work> that's related to what he asked, but not exactly 14:23 < zippoxer> i think john told me that 14:23 < ArgonneIntern> heh well I want it to run forever like a daemon until it is asked to exit gracefuly 14:23 < ArgonneIntern> but in order for it to do that the routines need to exit gracefully 14:23 < skelterjohn|work> if you have X goroutines running and you want them all to finish, it's normal to have them all send something to a channel and then read from it X times at the end of main 14:23 < zippoxer> for !shutTheFuckDown {} 14:23 < zippoxer> no ! 14:24 < zippoxer> it will fuck your cpu :( 14:24 < str1ngs> yep 14:24 < str1ngs> why select is so good 14:24 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.84.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:25 < aiju> zippoxer: it won't even work 14:25 < zippoxer> y? 14:25 < aiju> for small values of GOMAXPROCS 14:25 < aiju> "for {}" will never yield the thread 14:25 < zippoxer> :O 14:25 < zippoxer> so channels is nice. 14:26 < ArgonneIntern> aiju, I ran into this problem 14:27 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@59.35.236.54] has joined #go-nuts 14:27 < ArgonneIntern> for me the solution was just making gomaxprocs 2 14:27 < ArgonneIntern> but on the server it will be a lot higher 14:27 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.98.176] has joined #go-nuts 14:27 < skelterjohn|work> if the solution is to make gomaxprocs higher, then the problem is your code 14:28 < skelterjohn|work> you should write your code in such a way that raising gomaxprocs can make it more efficient, but not go from "not working" to "working" 14:28 < skelterjohn|work> can usually be done by sneaking in runtime.Gosched() calls 14:28 < go^lang> close the channels and check it in goroutines, if channel was close then end. 14:28 < ArgonneIntern> so it's my problem that the go runtime doesn't give up control on my main routine 14:28 < vikstrom> why would you need more GOMAXPROCS than you have cores/hypers? 14:28 < skelterjohn|work> ArgonneIntern: yes 14:28 < ArgonneIntern> rofl 14:28 < skelterjohn|work> go scheduling is cooperative 14:28 < ArgonneIntern> yea I must disagree with you there 14:28 < skelterjohn|work> so, you have to write code that cooperates 14:29 < skelterjohn|work> disagree all you like 14:29 < skelterjohn|work> that's how it is 14:29 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.223.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:30 < ArgonneIntern> well if you have to control everything manually you might as well just go back to threading lol 14:30 -!- yogib [~kaiser@dslb-178-009-079-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:30 < ArgonneIntern> what's the point if go doesn't take care of it 14:30 < skelterjohn|work> go can't take care of it and still be as close to the machine as it is 14:30 < zozoR> its not magic lol 14:30 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.69.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:30 < ArgonneIntern> zozoR, it sure was presented as thusin the past few weeks ;) 14:30 < aiju> go could take care of it 14:31 < skelterjohn|work> the goroutine context switches have to be triggered - by something 14:31 < aiju> they just don't do it because there is no real point to it 14:31 < skelterjohn|work> they *could* have a "watcher" process that randomly switches contexts 14:31 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: SIGALRM 14:31 < skelterjohn|work> or they could do what they do, and have certain things trigger a switch 14:31 -!- r_linux [~r_linux@static.200.198.180.250.datacenter1.com.br] has joined #go-nuts 14:31 < zozoR> what triggers a switch? :o 14:31 < aiju> alarm() 14:31 < skelterjohn|work> goroutines switch context when it's most useful - when a blocking IO call is made 14:32 < skelterjohn|work> or when certain syscalls are made, or when runtime.Gosched() is called 14:32 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: or channels 14:32 < skelterjohn|work> yes 14:32 < skelterjohn|work> lots of different ways 14:32 < ArgonneIntern> so go routines don't really time multiplex at all. Which would mean they don't really do anything to make them more efficient 14:32 < skelterjohn|work> but as far as the runtime knows, your busy loop is doing something 14:32 < str1ngs> just dont exit if runtime.Goroutines() > 0 :P 14:32 < skelterjohn|work> ArgonneIntern: each cpu you have can only do one instruction at a time =p 14:32 < ArgonneIntern> obviously 14:33 < ArgonneIntern> I'm not THAT stupid 14:33 < skelterjohn|work> so in that sense, no, go isn't magic 14:33 < aiju> haha 14:33 < aiju> Which would mean they don't really do anything to make them more efficient 14:33 < skelterjohn|work> but it can switch which goroutine is the active one when it's a good idea 14:33 < aiju> sounds different 14:33 < aiju> switching all the time makes it even LESS efficient 14:33 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-171-150.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 14:34 < ArgonneIntern> yes, but it was my u nderstanding that there was some beefy efficiency algorithms to determine context switching, who got what when within each thread and who got split to what threads if GOMAXPROCS >1 14:34 < skelterjohn|work> when you're doing something that doesn't yield (computations, etc, or in some cases a busy loop), the runtime is like "well, that goroutine is just chugging away and there is nothing we can do to have it make progress faster" 14:34 < skelterjohn|work> ArgonneIntern: that is not correct - it's just a round robin 14:34 < aiju> 16:41 < ArgonneIntern> yes, but it was my u nderstanding that there was some beefy efficiency algorithms to determine context switching, who got what when within each thread and who got split to what threads if GOMAXPROCS >1 14:34 < skelterjohn|work> when one goroutine yields, the next one in the queue goes active 14:34 < aiju> they want to add that 14:34 < skelterjohn|work> as aiju says, one day they can do something more clever 14:34 < aiju> GOMAXPROCS is supposed to go away in the future 14:35 < ArgonneIntern> I have 4-5 routines that are always running and none of them yield, yet setting my procs to 2 does something 14:35 < ArgonneIntern> I suppose yielding means ending a function for example 14:35 < skelterjohn|work> it makes it so 2-3 of them will never execute 14:36 < skelterjohn|work> calling/returning a function does not yield 14:36 < ArgonneIntern> but they do... 14:36 < skelterjohn|work> you must have something in there that yields 14:36 < vikstrom> doesnt it uses a countdown? after a set number of reductions it yields? 14:36 < skelterjohn|work> if it does i don't know about it 14:36 < skelterjohn|work> but i guess it's possible 14:36 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.98.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:36 < vikstrom> thats how, for instance, the erlang runtime handles scheduling 14:37 < vikstrom> yield on certain blocking ops or when reductions hit 0 14:37 < skelterjohn|work> the whole point of multiplexing goroutines onto processes is to use the "dead" time spent on blocking IO etc 14:37 < skelterjohn|work> busy waiting isn't dead time 14:38 < skelterjohn|work> calling functions and returning isn't dead time 14:38 < skelterjohn|work> you can't do it more efficiently by swapping goroutines 14:38 < ArgonneIntern> is blocking on a channel dead time 14:38 < skelterjohn|work> yes 14:38 < vikstrom> yeah, but then you need to multiplex it to another processor thread for it to really be parallell, while waiting for the block to finish up 14:38 < skelterjohn|work> blocking on a channel switches context 14:38 < ArgonneIntern> well I do a lot of that, so maybe that's why it works for me 14:38 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has joined #go-nuts 14:38 < skelterjohn|work> probably 14:38 < ArgonneIntern> in fact all of my go routines block on channels 14:38 < ArgonneIntern> except main 14:39 < skelterjohn|work> there lies the rub 14:39 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.167.31] has joined #go-nuts 14:39 < skelterjohn|work> and that explains why it doesn't work with gomaxprocs=1 14:39 < ArgonneIntern> I could just runtime.Gosched() and yield right? 14:39 < skelterjohn|work> yes 14:39 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.96.249] has joined #go-nuts 14:39 < skelterjohn|work> but i suggest not doing a busy wait 14:39 < ArgonneIntern> in fact that's probably a good idea even if GOMAXPROCS > 1 14:40 < aiju> if you do 14:40 < ArgonneIntern> it's not a busy wait really 14:40 < aiju> for { runtime.Gosched() } 14:40 < ArgonneIntern> I run three functions in the loop 14:40 < aiju> then all i can say is "fuck" 14:40 < skelterjohn|work> :) 14:40 < ArgonneIntern> no I run 3 functions, my main does something ;) 14:40 < skelterjohn|work> ArgonneIntern: if your main() does some actual useful computation, then having that in a for loop w/ a runtime.Gosched() is ok 14:40 < ArgonneIntern> just not very much 14:41 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C5C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:41 < aiju> if you have an infinite loop without anything which blocks in it 14:41 < aiju> you fucked up at some point 14:41 < skelterjohn|work> but to suggest the best way to handle it, i'd have to know exactly what you were doing in the main() and the other goroutines 14:42 < ArgonneIntern> my main just does some cleanup on resource allocations. Like if the time is up, and I have a data structure that tracks resource allocations while they are being allocated. It cleans up that structure once the allocation has finished as well. 14:43 < ArgonneIntern> so my main just does some clean up, my other routines do all th work 14:43 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-171-150.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:43 < skelterjohn|work> are cleanups only valid when one of the other goroutines does something specific? 14:43 < skelterjohn|work> like, finishes a block of work? 14:43 < ArgonneIntern> no 14:44 < ArgonneIntern> the allocations can timeout 14:44 < ArgonneIntern> so that can happen at anytime 14:44 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:44 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.68.207] has joined #go-nuts 14:44 < skelterjohn|work> would it make sense to only do this every X seconds? 14:44 < skelterjohn|work> (and perhaps also when a block of work is finished?) 14:44 < ArgonneIntern> yes default allocations are for a week, so a couple of seconds wonlt kill anything 14:45 < aiju> something like dhcp? 14:45 < skelterjohn|work> then instead of runtime.Gosched(), i suggest "<-time.After(X)" 14:45 < skelterjohn|work> where X is nanoseconds 14:46 -!- r_linux [~r_linux@static.200.198.180.250.datacenter1.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:47 < ArgonneIntern> can I ask why round robin was determined to the the algorithm used? 14:47 -!- serbaut [~joakims@tc-officefw.trioptima.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:47 < skelterjohn|work> easy 14:47 < vikstrom> fairness? 14:47 < skelterjohn|work> it's easy to code, it has some innate fairness properties, etc 14:47 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.96.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:47 < skelterjohn|work> it may be upgraded one day 14:47 < aiju> what's wrong with round robin 14:47 -!- serbaut [~joakims@tc-officefw.trioptima.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:48 < ArgonneIntern> well I agree with fairness. But if you do less work than me, fairness doesn't mean much 14:48 < vikstrom> that way even small process, not doing much, gets to run every now and then 14:48 -!- Tv__ [~Tv__@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:48 -!- r_linux [~r_linux@189.38.220.35] has joined #go-nuts 14:48 < vikstrom> its good for response times 14:48 -!- serbaut [~joakims@tc-officefw.trioptima.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:49 < aiju> ArgonneIntern: what's the alternative, even? 14:50 < vikstrom> priority-based? 14:50 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-162-227.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 14:50 < ArgonneIntern> yea, that's what I had in mind, but if you do that you might as well use OS threads 14:50 < skelterjohn|work> i certainly can't think of an improvement on round robin for goroutine scheduling, right now 14:51 < ArgonneIntern> err OS task shedular sorry 14:51 < vikstrom> priority-based is dangerous when you might have tens of thousands of small processes 14:51 < skelterjohn|work> maybe some day someone will be clever 14:51 < aiju> how do you define priority for a goroutine? 14:51 < ArgonneIntern> even a very simple priority scheduler would solve the problem of one routine taking everything 14:51 < vikstrom> exactly 14:52 < skelterjohn|work> runtime.SetPriority(abillion) 14:52 < aiju> ArgonneIntern: what are you talking about 14:52 < aiju> ArgonneIntern: this hasn't got anything with that 14:52 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.104.187] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:52 < skelterjohn|work> ArgonneIntern: the scheduling will *always* be cooperative 14:52 < skelterjohn|work> that is not going to change 14:52 < skelterjohn|work> the thing that might change is the round-robin alg 14:53 < ArgonneIntern> I guess you're right, the scheduling doesn't really effect context switch, just who goes next. 14:53 < skelterjohn|work> right 14:53 < ArgonneIntern> it would have to be able to have preemption 14:53 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.68.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:53 < skelterjohn|work> right 14:56 -!- JimPeak [~lejimpeak@modemcable213.208-160-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #go-nuts [] 14:56 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.72.63] has joined #go-nuts 14:59 < skelterjohn|work> heh, my latest commit message for gb is "-m" 14:59 < skelterjohn|work> oops 14:59 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-162-227.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:00 -!- sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00 -!- pharris [~Adium@rhgw.opentext.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:00 < str1ngs> hehe how did you pull that off? 15:01 < str1ngs> git commit -m "-m" 15:02 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.81.38] has joined #go-nuts 15:02 -!- Tv__ [~Tv__@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03 -!- robteix [~robteix@192.55.54.36] has joined #go-nuts 15:05 < skelterjohn|work> just -m -m 15:05 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.72.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:05 -!- exch [~blbl@ip34-181-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:05 < skelterjohn|work> actually, that's a lie 15:05 < skelterjohn|work> i have a script that commits to both hg and git at the same time 15:05 < skelterjohn|work> and it takes the first command line and uses it as the message 15:06 < skelterjohn|work> so i did ./commit -m "some message" 15:06 < skelterjohn|work> and it ran "git commit -a -m -m" and "hg commit -m -m" 15:06 < str1ngs> yes was going to say -m would need to be qouted 15:06 < skelterjohn|work> i don't think so 15:06 < skelterjohn|work> the quotes just group things separated by whitespace 15:06 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.115.131.32] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:06 < skelterjohn|work> "-m" and -m both get into your args as the same string 15:07 < str1ngs> you use bash? 15:07 < skelterjohn|work> yes 15:07 < str1ngs> -m != "-m" 15:07 < ww> same same most any shell 15:07 < ww> str1ngs: what planet? 15:07 < skelterjohn|work> nope 15:07 < skelterjohn|work> -m == "-m" 15:08 < skelterjohn|work> just tested 15:08 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.72.111] has joined #go-nuts 15:08 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-kkpmselbuouqfkmn] has joined #go-nuts 15:08 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 15:09 < ww> -m != \"-m\" 15:09 < ww> but that's a different story 15:09 < str1ngs> sorry I'm thing more in terms of -m != this is a commit 15:09 < str1ngs> which would result in this commit message so ya -m = "-m" 15:10 < str1ngs> thinking* 15:10 < skelterjohn|work> if you do: git commit -m -m 15:10 < skelterjohn|work> the commit message is "-m" 15:10 < str1ngs> right 15:10 < skelterjohn|work> ok. 15:10 < skelterjohn|work> o_O 15:10 < str1ngs> but lets go back to why you script that? :P 15:10 < aiju> because he has both a git and a hp repo 15:10 < aiju> it seems 15:11 < skelterjohn|work> it seemed like an easy way to keep them in sync 15:11 < skelterjohn|work> without learning some fancy tool 15:11 < aiju> wow 15:11 < aiju> i thought i just made that up 15:11 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.81.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11 < aiju> just WHY do you have two repos 15:11 < skelterjohn|work> because it started as a googlecode project 15:11 < aiju> may i suggest adding a CVS and a RCS repo to the bunch? 15:11 < skelterjohn|work> but then i decided i liked git better 15:11 < skelterjohn|work> so i made a github project. but people still use the googlecode project 15:12 < aiju> hahahaha 15:12 < str1ngs> well you can mirrot hg to git easily. not sure about the other way round 15:12 < skelterjohn|work> also googlecode lets you make a nicer page for docs 15:12 < str1ngs> mirror* 15:12 < aiju> write on your googlecode page 15:12 < aiju> I'M USING GITHUB NOW 15:12 < aiju> problem solved 15:12 < skelterjohn|work> *shrug* 15:12 < skelterjohn|work> my problem was already solved 15:13 < skelterjohn|work> i see no reason to change the solution 15:13 < erus`> “Git gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space.” 15:13 < skelterjohn|work> the only word i know in that is hilbert space 15:13 < skelterjohn|work> and i don't thing branches can map into one 15:13 < aiju> i know all of them 15:13 < str1ngs> skelterjohn|work: anyways you are not scripting automated commit message. so imo ya this case makes sense 15:13 < aiju> except endofunctors 15:13 < vikstrom> erus: until i do, ill just stick with bzr.. 15:14 < erus`> whats a hilbert space? 15:14 < skelterjohn|work> wikipedia 15:14 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-155-95.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 15:14 < vikstrom> i know what hilbert hotel is, but thats about it 15:14 < erus`> most math related pages are writen in greek alphabet 15:14 < skelterjohn|work> vikstrom: i think that's hilton 15:15 < skelterjohn|work> erus`: better that then try to chat in IRC using the greek alphabet 15:15 < vikstrom> nah, Hilbert Hotel is an analogy he used to describe countable and uncountable infinities 15:15 < skelterjohn|work> oh, hehe :) 15:15 < vikstrom> :-) 15:16 < aiju> 17:21 < erus`> whats a hilbert space? 15:16 < aiju> you define a scalar product on a vector space 15:16 < aiju> the canonical topology of the resulting metric space defined by the norm sqrt(<x,x>) is complete 15:16 < aiju> i.e. all cauchy sequences converge 15:16 < aiju> further questions? 15:16 < skelterjohn|work> this is why i sent you to wikipedia 15:16 -!- mindphaze [~void@ip98-181-33-119.br.br.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:16 -!- exch [~blbl@ip34-181-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 < skelterjohn|work> it's no less dense, but at least there are cross references 15:17 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.72.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18 < zippoxer> please downvote this shit: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6605051/performance-focused-desktop-program-ruby-or-go/6609376#6609376 15:18 < zippoxer> he must understand that his opinions are opinions. 15:18 < erus`> can you guys write the simple english version at simple.wikipedia.org plox :D 15:18 < zippoxer> maybe more downvotes will quicker the process. 15:18 < zippoxer> quickify* the process 15:18 < aiju> stackoverflow is a bunch of retards 15:18 < aiju> so why care? 15:18 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-182e3fca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:19 < zippoxer> not really :P 15:19 < zippoxer> there are some nices there 15:19 < skelterjohn|work> i'd have to log in 15:19 < skelterjohn|work> and register 15:19 < skelterjohn|work> not in that order 15:19 < zippoxer> openid 15:19 < skelterjohn|work> open your face 15:19 < erus`> lazy 15:19 < erus`> press the google button 15:20 < erus`> press allow 15:20 < erus`> done 15:20 < aiju> i'm not downvoting shit, i'm not 13 15:20 < aiju> "the mob has spoken" 15:20 < erus`> zippoxer: submit a patronising edit 15:21 < zippoxer> aiju: yeah later you say how much you hate XML and other pieces 15:21 < zippoxer> almost same as downvote 15:21 < zippoxer> (which i like to do) 15:22 < skelterjohn|work> words are better than votes 15:22 < skelterjohn|work> more useful anyway 15:22 < aiju> a question 15:22 < erus`> lol how many down votes have you submitted? 15:22 < erus`> mine is like 4 15:22 < aiju> "$language or $language" 15:22 < erus`> to 500 upvotes 15:22 < aiju> is ALWAYS going to end in a flame war 15:23 < go^lang> What is the best package install tool like goinstall? Which one for you ? 15:23 < zippoxer> there's not war there. 15:23 < erus`> i have asked 89 questions and answered 32 15:23 < zippoxer> every1 against this bullshitter 15:23 < skelterjohn|work> go^lang: i use http://go-gb.googlecode.com 15:23 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-155-95.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:23 < vikstrom> someone should post the blogpost on how to profile go 15:24 < aiju> what? he has some valid points 15:24 < zippoxer> here is better than stackoverflow but stackoverflow has already asked questions 15:24 < zippoxer> that i can google 15:24 < erus`> vikstrom: are you trol? 15:24 < erus`> skelterjohn is the go knowledgebase 15:24 < vikstrom> erus: why would you think that? 15:24 < zippoxer> vikstrom: in stackoverflow? i already posted somewhere 15:25 < erus`> because there is a blog post on how to profile go. posted not long ago 15:25 < skelterjohn|work> erus`, vikstrom: to both the statement and the question, lol 15:25 < vikstrom> i was refering to that blog post, and i meant someone should post a "link" to that post in that discussion.. 15:26 < erus`> ah yeah i read you wrong 15:26 < erus`> that was 5 lines of pointless chat then :P 15:26 < skelterjohn|work> don't be so modest 15:26 < skelterjohn|work> waaaay more than 5 lines 15:26 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@59.35.236.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26 < zippoxer> so what. we learned somthin 15:27 < zozoR> IM STILL A ROCKSTAR 15:27 < aiju> what's next 15:27 < vikstrom> i enjoyed that blogpost and think more should read it 15:27 < vikstrom> thats all 15:27 < aiju> someone posts a link to a /g/ discussion where someone posts something about go 15:27 < aiju> and we're all flaming him? 15:27 < zippoxer> falmed* 15:28 < zippoxer> flamed** 15:28 < skelterjohn|work> i have lost track of what's going on 15:28 < zippoxer> yeah. let's talk when we have something to talk about? :\ 15:28 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 15:28 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@59.35.238.25] has joined #go-nuts 15:29 -!- Electro [~mikael@gw-gbg.ilait.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:29 < erus`> my bitcoin wrapper https://github.com/tm1rbrt/bitcoinrpc 15:30 < skelterjohn|work> i don't get the hype about bitcoin 15:30 < erus`> no shitty paypal taking your money 15:30 < erus`> free transfers 15:30 < aiju> erus`: not really 15:30 < vikstrom> i'm off, office hours is over, no more crappy C# for me this week... 15:30 < aiju> there are transaction fees 15:31 < aiju> vikstrom: haha 15:31 < skelterjohn|work> i'm sure if they become successful, paypal will allow you to make payments in bitcoins 15:31 < erus`> aiju: only if you specify 15:31 < erus`> you wont need a paypal 15:31 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: currency which can't be affected by gouvernment tinkering 15:31 < jrr> you get paid in bitcoins for having your computer available to their network, right? 15:31 < aiju> jrr: n 15:31 < aiju> *no 15:32 < aiju> jrr: you can join a mining pool 15:32 -!- ArgonneIntern [~gauge@mcswl144.mcs.anl.gov] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:32 < zozoR> im kinda surprised at all the people who code C# "against their will" 15:32 < zozoR> xD 15:32 < aiju> jrr: but the amounts are negligible unless you have special hardware 15:32 < skelterjohn|work> bitcoins are bits of information that are difficult to compute...something about primes 15:32 < skelterjohn|work> so mining them becomes more and more difficult as more and more bitcoins are found 15:32 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: not quite 15:32 < skelterjohn|work> the primes part? 15:32 < aiju> no 15:32 < skelterjohn|work> i have no idea what the actual math is 15:32 < jrr> aiju: who makes those payments, however small, to the participants? 15:32 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@59.35.238.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33 < aiju> jrr: the pool operators 15:33 < aiju> jrr: you can also mine on your own, if you have a huge cluster 15:33 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: you have blocks full of transactions 15:33 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: which need to be signed by the network 15:33 < aiju> and you get 50 BTC for each block you sign 15:33 < aiju> that's how i get it 15:33 < aiju> the pools split the work and the pay among everyone 15:35 < erus`> mining is near the point of unprofitably though 15:35 < aiju> yeah 15:36 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:37 < erus`> but it will never be unprofitable for me because i leave my work pc on :) 15:38 < erus`> only out of work hours though 15:38 < jessta> erus`: isn't that just theft? 15:38 < erus`> pfff 15:39 < erus`> i need to access my work pc from home sometimes for vpn so it needs to be on 15:39 < jessta> wouldn't it be more profitable to just steal stationary and sell it 15:39 < erus`> well yes but i need bitcoins to test my projects 15:39 < erus`> i dont need money for moneys sake 15:40 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@59.35.238.25] has joined #go-nuts 15:40 < erus`> well i do i guess... 15:40 < erus`> but the point is 15:40 < erus`> bitcoins 15:41 < skelterjohn|work> good point 15:43 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-kkpmselbuouqfkmn] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:44 -!- ArgonneIntern [~gauge@mcswl144.mcs.anl.gov] has joined #go-nuts 15:50 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@mailgate.ips-international.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]] 15:51 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #go-nuts 15:52 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 15:53 -!- Cobi [~Cobi@2002:1828:88fb:0:aede:48ff:febe:ef03] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53 -!- chanwit [~chanwit@223.207.172.94] has joined #go-nuts 15:55 -!- jrr [~jrr@c-98-253-78-18.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56 -!- lucian [~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 15:56 -!- go^lang [~newblue@113.84.207.144] has quit [Quit: 暂离] 15:57 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:59 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03 -!- jrr [~jrr@c-98-253-78-18.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:03 -!- pjacobs [~pjacobs@66.54.185.130] has joined #go-nuts 16:04 -!- Queue29 [~Queue29@egress-w.sfo1.yelpcorp.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:08 -!- Cobi [~Cobi@2002:1828:88fb:0:aede:48ff:febe:ef03] has joined #go-nuts 16:10 -!- Fish- [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 16:13 -!- prip [~foo@host233-120-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13 -!- tncardoso [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has joined #go-nuts 16:14 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@host86-162-228-176.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:17 -!- lurcio [~margent@compy386.queens.ox.ac.uk] has left #go-nuts [] 16:17 -!- prip [~foo@host233-120-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 16:18 -!- dtm_ [~dtm@cpe-66-61-15-236.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Quit: Quit] 16:28 -!- ccc1 [~Adium@114-45-84-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has left #go-nuts [] 16:29 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 16:33 -!- sniper506th [~sniper506@rrcs-70-61-192-18.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:42 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:45 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-182e3fca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-bbgqrvnkyteppouh] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:01 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@59.35.238.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:01 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 17:02 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.167.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:05 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: pyrhho] 17:06 -!- smw [~stephen@unaffiliated/smw] has joined #go-nuts 17:14 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-clomsgryunbydndd] has joined #go-nuts 17:14 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 17:15 < uriel> yay, despite all the trolls in /r/programming, /r/golang now has 1000 members! 17:16 < uriel> http://www.reddit.com/r/golang/ 17:16 < aiju> still under 9000 17:18 < ww> i'm still not sure i understand what reddit is for 17:18 < aiju> ww: trolling 17:18 < uriel> ww: troling 17:18 < uriel> damn, aiju! ;P 17:18 < uriel> you type too fast ;P 17:18 < ww> aiju wins on speling 17:18 < uriel> ww: hehehe, and speed 17:18 < mpl> ww: and if you don't like trolling, just wasting your time. you might as well browse pics on imgur. 17:19 < mdxi> reddit is slashdot cross twitter 17:19 < mpl> ew 17:19 < uriel> mdxi: that is quite accurate 17:19 < uriel> anyway, the Go subreddit is useful to keep up with new projects and stuff 17:20 < skelterjohn|work> i feel like any site where comments can be voted upon is bound to hold only one point of view on any one topic 17:20 < skelterjohn|work> whatever the majority happens to be 17:20 < erus`> and throw in extra neckbeards 17:20 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: no shit 17:20 < erus`> only upboats would be good 17:20 < skelterjohn|work> then a site like fark, where nothing is voted upon, and where all comments are visible in the order they were posted, has a much more diverse crowd 17:20 < skelterjohn|work> uriel: soon it will be the golang cirlce on google+? :) 17:23 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 17:24 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29 -!- kinofcain [~KinOfCain@h-64-105-141-42.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:51 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 17:53 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 17:59 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:07 -!- chanwit [~chanwit@223.207.172.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C5C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14 < zozoR> var out []*JSONlevel; err = d.Decode(out) --- Error: Unmarshal(non-pointer []*main.JSONlevel) 18:14 < zozoR> any idea what that error means? 18:14 < skelterjohn|work> []*JSONlevel is not a pointer 18:14 < skelterjohn|work> it's a slice of pointers 18:15 < skelterjohn|work> specifically, the package can't actually put data into a slice you give it, reliably 18:15 < skelterjohn|work> since the array backing the slice may be insufficient (as it is, in your case) 18:16 < skelterjohn|work> and it can't change the slice, since you are passing the slice by value 18:16 < zozoR> so how do i get an array out? ^^ 18:17 < skelterjohn|work> i'm not familiar with the package you're using 18:17 < skelterjohn|work> in fact, i can't even tell which one it is by your snippet 18:17 < zozoR> is just the json package 18:17 < zozoR> well, suppose ill just interface it and then convert it 18:17 < skelterjohn|work> that would change nothing 18:18 < skelterjohn|work> if you assign out to an interface, *you are copying out* 18:18 < skelterjohn|work> since it is the value of a slice 18:18 < skelterjohn|work> it appears that json likes to take a []interface{} if you want to unmarshal an array 18:19 < skelterjohn|work> as it says in the documentation http://golang.org/pkg/json/#Unmarshal 18:20 < skelterjohn|work> oh, yeah the 2nd thing you said 18:20 < skelterjohn|work> if you say var x interface{} = []interface{}{} 18:20 < skelterjohn|work> and pass it x 18:20 < skelterjohn|work> i think it can change what's in x? i might be confusing myself 18:21 < zozoR> you are confusing me 18:21 < zozoR> xD 18:21 < zozoR> ill just read what the package says 18:21 < erus`> thats clever 18:22 < erus`> i still think a UnmarshalMap() is needed 18:22 < erus`> or a json.UnMarshalIntoInterfaces 18:23 < ArgonneIntern> base64.StdEncoding.DecodeString undefined (type *base64.Encoding has no field or method DecodeString), any ideas? 18:23 < zozoR> i still dont get what to do here -.-' 18:24 < ArgonneIntern> trying to decode StdEncoded base64 18:24 < ArgonneIntern> I'm looking at the package right now and base64.StdEncoding does have that method 18:25 < ArgonneIntern> *base64.Encoding correction 18:25 < skelterjohn|work> ArgonneIntern: version mismatch? 18:25 < skelterjohn|work> see what godoc says 18:27 < ArgonneIntern> indeed 18:27 < ArgonneIntern> they actually removed like half of these base64 functions 18:28 < skelterjohn|work> what version are you using? 18:28 < skelterjohn|work> it's in release, since it's on golang.org. it's in weekly, since when i run godoc I see it 18:28 < zozoR> invalid type assertion: out.([]<nil>) (non-interface type []interface { } on left) 18:28 < zozoR> i dont get it : | 18:28 < skelterjohn|work> you're not doing what i said to do 18:29 < skelterjohn|work> i said "var x interface{} = []interface{}{}" 18:29 < skelterjohn|work> and pass x to the decoder 18:29 < skelterjohn|work> then you can turn it back into the []interface{} and inspect each element 18:29 < zozoR> oh 18:29 < skelterjohn|work> i feel like that should complain about pointer types though 18:30 < skelterjohn|work> but we'll see 18:30 < ArgonneIntern> i'll update skelter 18:30 < ArgonneIntern> I havn't done weekly in like 2 weeks 18:32 < zozoR> i cant do that 18:32 < zozoR> Unmarshal(non-pointer []interface { }) 18:32 < skelterjohn|work> try &x 18:32 < skelterjohn|work> err 18:32 < skelterjohn|work> no 18:32 < skelterjohn|work> var x []interface{} 18:32 < skelterjohn|work> and then pass &x 18:33 < skelterjohn|work> that makes a lot more sense to me. but i think the documentation was a little confusing 18:33 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@204.14.152.118] has joined #go-nuts 18:33 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33 < skelterjohn|work> "To unmarshal a JSON value into a nil interface value, the type stored in the interface value is one of:" 18:33 < skelterjohn|work> should read "To unmarshal a JSON value into a nil interface value, the type stored in the interface value is a pointer to one of:" 18:34 < zozoR> heh it panics now 18:34 < zozoR> i did not expect this to be so troublesome 18:34 < zozoR> ill drop the array part now, and get it to work with just one element 18:34 < skelterjohn|work> what's the panic? 18:36 < zozoR> cant remember 18:36 < zozoR> it was just.. long 18:39 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:40 < zozoR> yay, now to figure out why it wont assert to my type ^^ 18:41 < ArgonneIntern> hmm mercurial doesn't want to pull....crashes. Reinstalled, same thing 18:41 < skelterjohn|work> ? 18:41 < skelterjohn|work> weird... 18:42 < skelterjohn|work> i pulled fine earlier today 18:43 < ArgonneIntern> yea I'm kinda clueless 18:43 < skelterjohn|work> try cloning to a new spot? 18:44 < ArgonneIntern> brb 18:45 < zozoR> now it works with arrays as well 18:45 < zozoR> what i did wrong was i forgot the & before my input 18:46 -!- ArgonneIntern [~gauge@mcswl144.mcs.anl.gov] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46 < zozoR> json.Unmarshal(&out) (where out = []*JSONlevel 18:46 < zozoR> would it be nice if the std lib had examples in it? 18:47 < skelterjohn|work> it does - the _test.go files 18:50 < zozoR> the one for unmarshal was horrid 18:50 -!- ArgonneIntern [~gauge@mcswl144.mcs.anl.gov] has joined #go-nuts 18:51 -!- tvw [~tv@e176006088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 18:51 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@nat/google/x-fsicgvpmxvjlaqwp] has joined #go-nuts 18:51 < ArgonneIntern> skelterjohn, do I need to sudo? 18:53 < ArgonneIntern> yes it won't even let me clone 18:53 < ArgonneIntern> wth 18:54 < skelterjohn|work> depends where you're cloning to, i'm sure 18:54 < skelterjohn|work> my $GOROOT is $HOME/go 18:54 < skelterjohn|work> no sudo required 18:54 < ArgonneIntern> mine too 18:54 < skelterjohn|work> something is up with your computer, maybe 18:55 < ArgonneIntern> i havn't even used it since last time I coded lol 18:55 < ArgonneIntern> abort: repository default not found! 18:55 < ArgonneIntern> Not trusting file /home/gauge/go/.hg/hgrc from untrusted user gauge, 18:56 < ArgonneIntern> I'm afraid to remove go and reinstall cause I might not be able to... 18:56 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:56 < skelterjohn|work> mv it 18:57 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has joined #go-nuts 18:57 < ArgonneIntern> good call 18:58 -!- kytibe [~kytibe@212.174.109.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58 < ArgonneIntern> wow 18:59 < ArgonneIntern> even if I move it it won't let me clone 18:59 < ArgonneIntern> o.O 18:59 < aiju> 21:01 < ArgonneIntern> Not trusting file /home/gauge/go/.hg/hgrc from untrusted user gauge, 18:59 < aiju> add him to your trusted list 18:59 < ArgonneIntern> he is me 18:59 < aiju> hahaha 18:59 < ArgonneIntern> how can he not be trusted by me 18:59 < ArgonneIntern> i'm logged in as that user 19:00 < ArgonneIntern> something is really really messed up 19:00 < ArgonneIntern> can you guys pull right now? 19:01 < skelterjohn|work> yes 19:01 < skelterjohn|work> it's definitely you, not go 19:01 < ArgonneIntern> this is a really stupid problem to have 19:02 < aiju> 20:57 < ArgonneIntern> skelterjohn, do I need to sudo? 19:02 < aiju> wait 19:02 < aiju> you're sudoing 19:02 < ArgonneIntern> I tried both 19:02 < ArgonneIntern> with and without 19:02 -!- kytibe [~kytibe@212.174.109.55] has joined #go-nuts 19:03 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@host86-162-228-176.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04 < ArgonneIntern> crap I upgraded my python 19:04 < ArgonneIntern> I think that's it 19:04 < skelterjohn|work> don't do that 19:05 < ArgonneIntern> I think it uses 2.6 19:06 < ArgonneIntern> what version are you guys using 19:07 -!- gnuvince|work [8e544424@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.84.68.36] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:11 < skelterjohn|work> 2.6.5 19:14 < zozoR> will ok be "ok the key is there" or "ok the type assertion works" x, ok := dic["X"].(float64) 19:14 < zozoR> : | 19:14 < ArgonneIntern> dude this makes no sense 19:14 < ArgonneIntern> whyw ould it just randomly stop working 19:15 < ArgonneIntern> it apparently works with 2.7 python 19:15 -!- grai [~grai@38.70.70.115.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15 -!- grai [~grai@38.70.70.115.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 19:17 < skelterjohn|work> zozoR: it would be the assertion working 19:17 < skelterjohn|work> since you can't .(float64) a multiple return 19:17 < skelterjohn|work> but... don't do that 19:17 < skelterjohn|work> separate it onto two lines 19:17 < skelterjohn|work> much clearer 19:18 < zozoR> ^^ 19:25 < aiju> if you do multiple return, your design is fucked -- programmer i know 19:25 < skelterjohn|work> pretty silly 19:26 < lucian> aiju: did that programmer have a reason? 19:26 < aiju> no clue ;P 19:26 < aiju> i complained about the lack of anything like multiple return in C# 19:27 < lucian> one could make the point that if you have destructuring assignment, you don't really need multiple return 19:28 < lucian> but saying not having it is a good idea? that's like saying not having overloading operators is a bad idea! :) 19:33 < ArgonneIntern> skelterjohn, got it 19:33 < ArgonneIntern> had to force update mercurial so it would add the proper modules 19:34 < ArgonneIntern> worked fine after that 19:34 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-yujukyncfugaytbf] has joined #go-nuts 19:35 -!- tncardoso [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:35 < jdahm> has anyone wrapped BLAS/LAPACK yet? Is there an eample of how to all it? 19:36 < skelterjohn|work> there is a matrix library that is pure go, if you just need matrix stuff 19:36 < skelterjohn|work> and to wrap BLAS or LAPACK, you'd surely have to use cgo 19:36 < aiju> is there fortran go? 19:36 < aiju> :> 19:36 < jdahm> skelterjohn|work: what is it called? 19:36 < skelterjohn|work> gomatrix.googlecode.com 19:37 < jdahm> how about with gccgo 19:38 < jdahm> isn't there interoperability? 19:38 < skelterjohn|work> gccgo is a compiler 19:38 < skelterjohn|work> cgo is how you do c <=> go interaction 19:38 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38 < jdahm> you can't just link in a C library? 19:38 < skelterjohn|work> well, presumably you have to call its functions somehow 19:38 < skelterjohn|work> that's where cgo comes in 19:39 < aiju> jdahm: just start your own linear algebra package 19:39 -!- nicka1 [~lerp@142.176.0.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:39 < jdahm> aiju: man, thats ridiculous. LAPACK/BLAS is there for a reason. It's fast and optimized by people who do only that 19:39 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.89.139] has joined #go-nuts 19:39 < jdahm> My advisor and I are interested in using Go, but would need mature matrix libraries 19:39 < skelterjohn|work> if someone used the interface provided by gomatrix to bring in LAPACK, i'm sure the author would be happy to include it 19:40 -!- huin [~huin@91.85.188.1] has joined #go-nuts 19:40 < aiju> jdahm: MAN, it's not like there isn't any previous work 19:40 < skelterjohn|work> try gomatrix. if it's too slow and you think it's gomatrix's fault, slip in LAPACK using the interfaces provided 19:41 < skelterjohn|work> but gomatrix is mostly a translation from JAMA 19:43 < ArgonneIntern> oh these changes to exec are nice 19:43 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 19:43 < ArgonneIntern> :) 19:43 < jdahm> ohh ok 19:44 < skelterjohn|work> plus the author is available in this irc channel 19:44 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: is it you? 19:44 < skelterjohn|work> it's possible 19:44 < kevlar_work> lol 19:44 < kevlar_work> I totally pretend to not have any ownership of my code on IRC. 19:44 < kevlar_work> xml.Marshal? What screwup wrote that? 19:45 < kevlar_work> gofr? log4go? why would you ever use a third-party package for that? ;-) 19:47 < skelterjohn|work> not me, certainly 19:47 < skelterjohn|work> i write everything from scratch, every time 19:47 -!- Jessica_Lily [~Jessica@unaffiliated/xray7224] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:47 -!- huin [~huin@91.85.188.1] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:49 < jdahm> aiju: This does look interesting: www.cc.gatech.edu/grads/d/dlong3/presentations/go-blas.pdf 19:51 < aiju> haha 19:51 < jdahm> of course that might be someone in here for all I know ;) 19:51 < aiju> BLAS is really fortran? 19:51 < jdahm> yes 19:52 < skelterjohn|work> too bad the guy didn't decide to make it public 19:52 < jdahm> yeah 19:52 < jdahm> it would have been really helpful 19:52 < skelterjohn|work> what field are you in that you want BLAS/LAPACK? 19:52 < jdahm> skelterjohn|work: CFD 19:53 < skelterjohn|work> could you expand that acronym? 19:53 < jdahm> computational fluid dynamics 19:53 < aiju> don't they all use C++? 19:54 < jdahm> C++ is a great laguage for it yes, but a tad slow 19:54 < skelterjohn|work> er? 19:54 < jdahm> I use C a lot. And built one in C++ a while back too 19:55 < skelterjohn|work> jdahm: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/grads/d/dlong3/research.php 19:55 < skelterjohn|work> he does publish the code 19:55 < skelterjohn|work> but if it's as old as his slides, it might not compile 19:56 < skelterjohn|work> what do i install to expand .7z files on linux? 19:56 < aiju> p7zip 19:56 < aiju> prepare some lambs 19:57 < jdahm> he should really have put that on github :P 19:57 < skelterjohn|work> does fortran need a build script? it has a bunch of folders with a bunch of .f files in them 19:57 < skelterjohn|work> not really sure what to do with it 19:59 < aiju> gfortran *.f? 19:59 < aiju> something along that 19:59 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:00 < skelterjohn|work> i don't see anywhere in the .go files that interfaces with outside code 20:00 -!- huin [~huin@91.85.188.1] has joined #go-nuts 20:00 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: maybe it's just for comparison? 20:00 < jdahm> I'm still installing p7zip 20:00 < jdahm> there isn't a makefile? 20:00 < skelterjohn|work> ah, good point 20:00 < skelterjohn|work> there is a makefile for the go stuff 20:03 < skelterjohn|work> scanned through it all... i am 99% sure there is no interface between go code and fortran code in there 20:03 < aiju> 22:06 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: maybe it's just for comparison? 20:03 < skelterjohn|work> yes i saw that 20:03 < skelterjohn|work> however - the slides suggested that it was BLAS from go 20:04 < skelterjohn|work> not BLAS compared to go 20:04 < skelterjohn|work> maybe i didn't read carefully enough 20:04 < jdahm> oh man, tarbomb! 20:04 < skelterjohn|work> aha - *port* BLAS to Go 20:04 < skelterjohn|work> is what the slides say 20:04 < skelterjohn|work> ok this is not useful 20:04 < skelterjohn|work> :) 20:05 -!- keithcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-wjlpgpnfqpjvrmqb] has joined #go-nuts 20:12 -!- robteix [~robteix@192.55.54.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:12 -!- Kahvi [~Kahvi@a91-152-177-58.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@c-68-42-82-10.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:20 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 20:25 -!- chaos95 [~chaos95@mafianode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37 -!- ancientlore [~ancientlo@ip68-110-238-176.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 20:37 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39 -!- ArgonneIntern [~gauge@mcswl144.mcs.anl.gov] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41 -!- huin [~huin@91.85.188.1] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:42 -!- zcram [~zcram@77-233-85-18.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:44 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-168-62.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 20:46 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.84.190] has joined #go-nuts 20:49 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-168-62.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.115.131.32] has joined #go-nuts 21:06 < jdahm> ls 21:06 < jdahm> oops 21:07 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@nat/google/x-fsicgvpmxvjlaqwp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@nat/google/x-hgyopyxsqnrjbilp] has joined #go-nuts 21:11 -!- alehorst [~alehorst@189.115.80.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12 -!- pjacobs [~pjacobs@66.54.185.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:20 -!- tylerl [~tylerl@unaffiliated/tylerl] has joined #go-nuts 21:20 < tylerl> i it simple to generate documentation for a 3rd-party package? (not under GOROOT) 21:22 < bugQ> look at the -path flag of godoc 21:22 < bugQ> http://golang.org/cmd/godoc/ 21:23 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23 < tylerl> bugQ: I'm looking at it -- godoc -path="`pwd`" mypkg MyFunc 21:23 < tylerl> is a no-go 21:23 < tylerl> it still looks under my GOROOT for the package. 21:24 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 21:24 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25 < bugQ> well first, all you need is -path="." 21:25 < tylerl> bugQ: tried that first. 21:27 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-yujukyncfugaytbf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28 < tylerl> bugQ: so that's it, huh? 21:29 < bugQ> sorry, was torn away for a sec 21:29 -!- ccmike [~cmike@adsl-99-75-50-144.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:29 < bugQ> what does the directory structure in "." look like ? 21:30 < tylerl> a .go file (my local stuff) and a dir called "dns" containing the "dns" package from here: https://github.com/miekg/godns 21:31 -!- cmike_ [~mcrosby@adsl-99-75-50-144.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:31 -!- cmike_ [~mcrosby@adsl-99-75-50-144.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:31 -!- ccmike [~cmike@adsl-99-75-50-144.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:31 -!- cmike_ [~cmike@adsl-99-75-50-144.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:32 < jdahm> tylerl: nice looking code 21:32 < tylerl> jdahm: i didn't write it ;) 21:32 < tylerl> that's why i want to generate documentation 21:32 < zozoR> why is it so hard to find lists of reason why .NET sucks : | 21:33 < zozoR> from sane people, and not just angry persons 21:33 < bugQ> I think godoc might be looking for the name of the directory directly above dns 21:33 < bugQ> like if it's "src" then src/dns 21:33 < bugQ> (as the package name, not the path) 21:34 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@cpc6-haye15-0-0-cust125.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:34 < tylerl> bugQ: ah. If i run using -http, I can at least navigate to my documentation. That's close enough. 21:35 < bugQ> or I could be prattling, since I haven't done what you're doing 21:35 < grai> godoc . MyType; godoc ./dns FooFunc # <- is that at all helpful? 21:36 < tylerl> zozoR: probably because it doesn't. Not from a technological standpoint, at least. It's biggest drawback is that you have to run it on Windows. 21:36 < bugQ> ASP.NET on the other hand... 21:38 < tylerl> grai: ASP.NET is a disaster. It was written to make it easy for people who write Word macros to build web pages. That's not a good starting point. 21:38 < tylerl> sry. that wasnt' to grai 21:38 < tylerl> that was to zozoR 21:38 < zozoR> .NET runs on linux just fine with mono 21:39 < tylerl> zozoR: the mono team got fired. 21:39 < zozoR> .NET still runs fine on linux 21:39 < tylerl> zozoR: "fine"... 21:40 < zozoR> maybe ms asked $$ google to remove some of the bad entries ^^ 21:40 < Namegduf> Code using .NET is not inherently portable, in the way well-written Go/Python/Perl/Ruby/PHP/Java code are to varying degrees 21:40 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Quit: hcatlin] 21:40 < Namegduf> It is more in the C/C++ area; it might be portable if you watch what you're doing, and test 21:41 < Namegduf> *most* of .NET is available and working, yes. 21:41 < Namegduf> I seem to recall parts which aren't include some of the stuff needed to make a properly nice GUI, though 21:41 < Namegduf> Which is fairly important. 21:43 < zozoR> well, i just think it is weird no one complains about it 21:43 < zozoR> except for those who go "i think it is stuuupid that i have to have the framework for it to work" 21:43 < mindphaze> what is your complaints about it? 21:43 < zozoR> dunno 21:43 < Namegduf> I don't use it nearly enough to provide criticisms outside of portability. 21:44 < tylerl> zozoR: why are you looking for a list of complaints? 21:44 < Namegduf> And "install base". 21:44 < zozoR> i've written about 5kloc in C#.net 21:44 < mindphaze> then you should have your own opinions 21:44 < mindphaze> c# is a good language imo 21:45 < zozoR> im kinda simpleminded, i can only figure out that it is worthless compared to go in my eyes 21:45 < Namegduf> I'm not a big fan of C#/Java; I prefer Go's approaches. 21:45 < mindphaze> i just don't like microsofts control over it 21:45 < zozoR> i kinda want better reasons to stay away from it :D 21:46 < Namegduf> Packages rather than classes makes for bigger modules, meaning modules are more independent and have looser coupling. "A single job, handled independently from everything else" at the package scale is nice. 21:46 < zozoR> java is the most popular language in the world (apparently..) i've never met a guy who loved it 21:46 < tylerl> zozoR: you're looking for a reason to be unflexible? 21:46 < bugQ> say, why don't we port Go to the CLR ? :P 21:46 < Namegduf> Java is big in enterprise because it lets lots of bad developers produce mediocre code 21:46 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-173-51.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:46 < Namegduf> Which will just about work. 21:46 < tylerl> bugQ: It should't be too hard, really. The clr is fairly flexible, and Go is a very simple language. 21:47 -!- pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-170-20.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:47 < Namegduf> Set them loose in Python and you'd get exceptions and breaks everywhere. 21:47 < zozoR> :) 21:47 < zozoR> i dont think i would ever program for money, so i dont count it as unflexible 21:49 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.115.131.32] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:49 < tylerl> zozoR: .NET is probably the best app framework avialable for windows. And that's fine with me. Just don't use it to write server software ;) 21:49 * Namegduf finds it hard to imagine writing a server in anything BUT Go now. 21:49 < Namegduf> Goroutines are just so good at connection handling, heh. 21:50 < zozoR> if i went back to C#, it would feel like going forward having iron in your shoes 21:50 * Namegduf is going to have to be working on a C# project soon, needs to learn more about the language 21:51 < tylerl> zozoR: you might like F#, then. It's got some go-like features. 21:51 < zozoR> why would i want something go-like when i can have go? xD 21:52 < Namegduf> The only Go-like that's ever interested me is Crawl, and mostly because it could let me use Go-like stuff in applications which Go is *at present* less suited for. 21:52 < tylerl> zozoR: go doesn't work well on windows. so if you have to program there... 21:52 < Namegduf> Like where I'm effectively gluing two C libs together 21:53 < zozoR> but i dont want to code for windows : | 21:53 < zozoR> Crawl? 21:53 < Namegduf> It's a Go-like language designed to be very interoperable with C. 21:54 < Namegduf> Use C headers, not garbage collected, no concurrency... 21:54 < zozoR> the one nsf is working on? 21:54 < Namegduf> Yeah. 21:54 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@c-68-42-82-10.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54 < zozoR> isnt it krawl :P 21:54 < Namegduf> If that's not called crawl, then I got the name mixed up. 21:54 < Namegduf> Ah, oops. 21:54 < zozoR> heh 21:54 < zozoR> yebyen, i would like that too 21:55 < zozoR> a clean C language 21:55 < zozoR> that does not poke you in the eyes 21:55 -!- Dr_Who [~tgall_foo@linaro/tgall-foo] has quit [Quit: ZZZZZzzzzz] 21:57 < tylerl> that's an unpleasant metaphor 21:57 < zozoR> why? 21:58 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@188.114.142.217] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:58 -!- qulinxao [~qulinxao@46.167.75.5] has joined #go-nuts 22:00 -!- qulinxao [~qulinxao@46.167.75.5] has left #go-nuts [] 22:00 < tylerl> because it's unpleasant 22:04 < zozoR> weird '' 22:04 < bmizerany> does anyone have any good examples of using http/httptest? 22:05 -!- Varriount [~Varriount@67.222.157.172] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"] 22:06 < zippoxer> how can I link a library to cgo with gb? 22:07 < zippoxer> i mean if gb can set CGO_LDFLAGS to something I choose 22:07 < skelterjohn> tylerl: too much backscroll - did you ever figure out the godoc issue? 22:08 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:08 < skelterjohn> zippoxer: golang.org/cmd/cgo 22:08 < zozoR> goodnight ^^ 22:08 < skelterjohn> / #cgo LDFLAGS: -lmylib 22:08 < skelterjohn> that kind of thing 22:08 < skelterjohn> except with two slashes 22:08 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08 < tylerl> skelterjohn: I ran godoc -http=:8081 -path="." and i can navigate to the correct docs through the web interface 22:08 < zippoxer> skelterjohn: great thanks 22:08 < tylerl> skelterjohn: never figured out how to do it on teh cmdline 22:09 < skelterjohn> i see. i've never tried. 22:09 < skelterjohn> but once i was convinced -path did nothing - didn't realize there was a link to the new path at the top 22:09 -!- angasule [~angasule@190.2.33.49] has joined #go-nuts 22:10 < tylerl> skelterjohn: yes. that appears to be a very useful program to have running in the background. instant docs for your own code. 22:10 < jnwhiteh> I wish you could set it to document unexported methods as well 22:11 < jnwhiteh> maybe you can 22:11 < skelterjohn> i don't believe you can 22:11 < jnwhiteh> yeah, I'd use that for development purposes 22:11 < jnwhiteh> I sometimes forget my method signatures 22:11 -!- gridaphobe [~gridaphob@cpe-74-68-151-24.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:11 < jnwhiteh> tho taglist is helping with that a bit now that I've set it up 22:14 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@cpc6-haye15-0-0-cust125.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 22:15 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@host86-162-228-176.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:17 -!- Bigbear1 [~Cody@d75-158-131-113.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:32 -!- vmil86 [~vmil86@78.57.227.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:36 < kevlar_work> I'm really bored of the "golang inconsistencies" and "automatic reference counting and garbage collection" threads on golang-nuts 22:37 < kevlar_work> isn't there some law of physics that says that the upper bound on information per-email in a thread decreases exponentially with the number of posts? 22:37 < kevlar_work> *new information 22:37 < Namegduf> Yes. 22:37 -!- r_linux [~r_linux@189.38.220.35] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:41 -!- flaguy48 [~gmallard@user-0c6s350.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41 -!- tylerl [~tylerl@unaffiliated/tylerl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41 -!- pharris [~Adium@rhgw.opentext.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46 < skelterjohn> the law of diminishing returns 22:51 -!- mkb218 [~mkb@pool-96-233-4-238.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:52 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 -!- mkb218 [~mkb@pool-96-233-4-238.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:59 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@nat/google/x-hgyopyxsqnrjbilp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:03 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:07 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.84.190] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 23:11 -!- Bigbear1 [~Cody@d75-158-131-113.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12 -!- Bigbear1 [~Cody@d75-158-131-113.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:14 -!- rael_wiki [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/rael-wiki/x-8420294] has joined #go-nuts 23:14 < rael_wiki> hello everybody 23:15 < erus`> lets write a go compiler in go ? :) 23:15 < erus`> or haskell 23:16 < kevlar_work> I'd vote for bootstrapping. 23:17 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:17 < skelterjohn> i can't imagine using haskell 23:18 < erus`> is there anything like templates for go? 23:18 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-clomsgryunbydndd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:19 < rael_wiki> in the netchan package if I use func (imp *Importer) Import(name string, chT interface{}, dir Dir, size int) os.Error 23:19 < rael_wiki> chT must be initialized? 23:20 < rael_wiki> because in the exaples I found it's always initialized but if I give a null chan does it initializes it if the importing succeds? 23:20 < rael_wiki> *examples 23:20 < rael_wiki> *initialize 23:24 < rael_wiki> ok I just found out it doesn't :) 23:30 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-50-89.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39 -!- nicka [~nicka@unaffiliated/nicka] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:47 -!- nicka [~nicka@unaffiliated/nicka] has joined #go-nuts 23:47 < uriel> erus`: like c++ templates? thank god no! 23:48 < erus`> what about haskell style type inference 23:48 < erus`> func adder(a any, b any) { return a + b } 23:48 < uriel> Go has go-style 23:48 < Namegduf> No; Go's type inference is limited to variable declarations. 23:48 < erus`> it would be pretty useless without overloaded functions :P 23:48 < uriel> why everyone insist on applying the feature checklist of one language into another? that is what results in monsters like C++ and perl 23:48 < Namegduf> That's generics, not type inference, and the answer is still no 23:49 < Namegduf> Type inference is where you don't specify the type at all and it figures out it has to be numeric because you added them. 23:51 < rael_wiki> as in ML 23:52 -!- tvw [~tv@e176006088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52 < rael_wiki> that kind of type inference makes a lot of sense in functional languages, I don't see any need of it in a language like go --- Log closed Sat Jul 09 00:00:55 2011