--- Log opened Tue Aug 02 00:00:19 2011 00:15 -!- robteix [~robteix@host210.190-30-192.telecom.net.ar] has joined #go-nuts 00:21 -!- gridaphobe [~gridaphob@cpe-74-68-151-24.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:24 <@adg> gmilleramilar: one month :) 00:36 -!- Tv__ [~Tv__@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:46 -!- kergoth [~kergoth@ip24-251-173-232.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48 -!- Queue29 [~seth@bastion.sfo1.yelpcorp.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:08 -!- ccc1 [~Adium@140.109.98.230] has joined #go-nuts 01:08 < brandini> and home 01:08 < brandini> building the new release 01:10 < brandini> I've never been so excited to learn a new programming language 01:10 < brandini> about 11 years ago I tought myself how to write code 01:10 < brandini> perl, then java, then python and ruby 01:11 < brandini> but I feel like now I can actually learn Go the right way 01:11 < brandini> the others it was just learning to make it do what I wanted 01:11 < brandini> </coding-therapy-session> 01:11 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.109.5] has joined #go-nuts 01:12 -!- foocraft_ [~ewanas@78.101.44.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:13 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13 -!- ccc12 [~Adium@140.109.98.187] has joined #go-nuts 01:17 -!- ccc1 [~Adium@140.109.98.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19 < raylu> how does one send an http request with a custom user-agent in the new release? http.UserAgent was just a field previously but it's a method now 01:21 < str1ngs> raylu: use NewRequest then call the method 01:22 < str1ngs> iirc NewRequest is the helper function. I tend to use my own request helper 01:25 < raylu> "UserAgent returns the client's User-Agent, if sent in the request." 01:26 < raylu> i suppose i could modify the header map 01:27 < str1ngs> right sorry so use the headers 01:28 < str1ngs> req.Header["user-agent"] = "mahAgent" or req.Header.Set("user-agent", "mahAgent") 01:29 < str1ngs> something like that 01:32 -!- ph1234k [~Steven@ip72-209-135-200.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:33 < raylu> yep. that's pretty much what i wrote 01:33 < raylu> thanks :D 01:33 < raylu> now if only people would stop sniffing user-agents 01:39 -!- deepfuture [~liuxing@218.75.249.184] has joined #go-nuts 01:39 -!- Dr_Who [~tgall_foo@linaro/tgall-foo] has joined #go-nuts 01:46 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has quit [Quit: ...] 01:54 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has joined #go-nuts 01:57 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59 -!- qeed [~qeed@adsl-98-85-40-165.mco.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03 < brandini> I'm finding that writing web apps in go is harder than I originally thought :) 02:03 -!- gtaylor [~gtaylor@97-95-231-85.dhcp.sffl.va.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:08 <@adg> brandini: really? how so? 02:10 -!- chadkouse [~Adium@rrcs-74-218-87-242.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:11 < brandini> well right now I'm trying to figure out how to do templating where I can pass in a context object that I can use in the html page and draw stuff... proving nontrivial for me 02:12 < uriel> adg: THANKS! 02:13 < uriel> adg: make sure to do the same for the -dev list 02:14 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 02:17 -!- NiteRain [~NiteRain@c-98-254-236-21.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24 -!- angasule [~angasule@190.2.33.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25 < jessta> brandini: you can't "draw stuff" on a html page. You can only output text that will be interpreted by the web browser 02:28 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has joined #go-nuts 02:28 -!- fvbommel [~fvbommel_@86.86.15.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:32 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36 -!- robteix [~robteix@host210.190-30-192.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:37 -!- nicka [~nicka@unaffiliated/nicka] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:38 -!- nicka [~nicka@unaffiliated/nicka] has joined #go-nuts 02:44 -!- deepfuture [~liuxing@218.75.249.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:45 -!- Bigbear1 [~Cody@d75-158-137-7.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:47 -!- rendar [~s@host31-180-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 02:48 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.109.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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[] 04:31 -!- Tv__ [~Tv__@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:31 -!- Tv__ [~Tv__@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has left #go-nuts [] 04:32 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #go-nuts 04:34 -!- benjack [~benjack@bb220-255-251-77.singnet.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts 04:39 -!- chrisdothall [~chris@segfault.net.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:40 -!- Kumul [~Kumul@67.224.128.128] has quit [Quit: gone] 04:40 -!- chrisdothall [~chris@segfault.net.nz] has joined #go-nuts 04:44 -!- chrisdothall [~chris@segfault.net.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 04:45 -!- chrisdothall [~chris@segfault.net.nz] has joined #go-nuts 04:45 -!- brnstz_ [48e1d620@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.225.214.32] has joined #go-nuts 04:49 < kuroneko> Just thrown together Yet Another Generic Configuration File Parser if anybody wants to have a prod at it. 04:49 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-18baf7e7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:49 -!- chrisdothall [~chris@segfault.net.nz] has 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[~kfeng@114-32-57-164.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 05:50 -!- kfmfe04 [~kfeng@114-32-57-164.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:56 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00 -!- vmil86 [~vmil86@78.57.227.12] has joined #go-nuts 06:03 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 06:11 -!- ph1234k [~Steven@ip72-209-135-200.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11 -!- ph1234k [~Steven@ip72-209-135-200.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:16 -!- Sep102_ [~Sep102@c-71-227-179-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:19 -!- Sep102__ [~Sep102@c-71-227-179-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20 -!- ph1234k [~Steven@ip72-209-135-200.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31 -!- foxen [~foxen@212.12.18.237] has joined #go-nuts 06:31 -!- noodles775 [~michael@f053073181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 06:31 -!- noodles775 [~michael@f053073181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Changing host] 06:31 -!- noodles775 [~michael@canonical/launchpad/noodles775] has joined #go-nuts 06:32 -!- foxen [~foxen@212.12.18.237] has left #go-nuts [] 06:33 -!- Sep102_ [~Sep102@c-71-227-179-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:36 -!- fvbommel [~fvbommel_@86.86.15.250] has joined #go-nuts 06:40 < kuroneko> hmm. any hope of getting a way to fidget uid/gid across an exec boundary implemented upstream? 06:41 -!- saschpe [~quassel@opensuse/member/saschpe] has joined #go-nuts 06:42 < kuroneko> oop! nevermind. Just found it. :) 06:43 < kuroneko> funny how the bits I want I suddenly discover really did get implemented ;) 06:43 < cbeck> Random question, but any ideas for a decently interesting string manipulation problem that's easily paralellizable? 06:47 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C4D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 06:49 -!- samuell [~samuel@pc2-samuel.uppmax.uu.se] has joined #go-nuts 07:03 < |Craig|> cbeck: data mining in log files 07:05 -!- yogib [~yogib@131.234.59.64] has joined #go-nuts 07:08 -!- alehorst [~alehorst@201.47.25.192.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:11 -!- deepfuture [~liuxing@218.75.249.184] has joined #go-nuts 07:11 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:13 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@mailgate.ips-international.com] has joined #go-nuts 07:16 -!- Niedar [~dgdfg@ip68-99-166-222.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:16 -!- chadkouse [~Adium@rrcs-74-218-87-242.central.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:21 -!- alehorst [~alehorst@189.114.233.122.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 07:23 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 07:25 -!- DonGene [~DonGene@212.174.109.54] has joined #go-nuts 07:26 -!- Fish- [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 07:26 -!- napsy [~luka@193.2.66.6] has joined #go-nuts 07:28 -!- Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:28 -!- squeese [~squeese@cm-84.209.17.156.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 07:45 -!- Bigbear1 [~Cody@d75-158-137-7.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344f29.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 08:06 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 08:06 -!- kfmfe04 [~kfeng@114-32-57-164.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 08:08 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.109.5] has quit [Quit: default SIGPORTAL handler] 08:10 -!- wrtp [~rog@host-92-30-166-101.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:19 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:24 -!- deepfuture [~liuxing@218.75.249.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30 -!- Sep102 [~Sep102@c-71-227-179-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:40 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C4D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has joined #go-nuts 09:10 -!- proppy [u1692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yoictiggoqwglosy] has joined #go-nuts 09:13 -!- Maxdamantus [~Maxdamant@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:14 < Maxdamantus> Not directly a question about Go, but, in case anyone's familiar with its history .. why doesn't Limbo have lexical closures? 09:15 -!- EvilJStoker [jstoker@unaffiliated/jstoker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:15 < aiju> because closures are lots of work? 09:15 < Maxdamantus> The related languages before (Newsqueak) and after (Go) seem to have them .. seems strange for the middle one to lack it. 09:15 -!- itsPhilip [u2979@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnihpintegutfbyd] has joined #go-nuts 09:16 < Maxdamantus> It'd be easy if they'd taken it into account when designing the VM it runs on, which I believe was designed for Limbo. 09:19 -!- EvilJStoker [jstoker@unaffiliated/jstoker] has joined #go-nuts 09:32 -!- adil [~adil@nat/ibm/x-kvzgrlcprlecmnis] has joined #go-nuts 09:33 -!- adil [~adil@nat/ibm/x-kvzgrlcprlecmnis] has left #go-nuts [] 09:36 < str1ngs> I think bash needs a builtin called YELL 09:36 < str1ngs> YELL "YOU SCREWED UP AGAIN!" 09:38 -!- ccc12 [~Adium@140.109.98.187] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:43 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48 -!- rlab [~Miranda@254-114-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:49 -!- benjack [~benjack@bb220-255-251-77.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:49 -!- noam_ [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:49 -!- exch [~blbl@ip34-181-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:52 -!- noam_ [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has joined #go-nuts 09:52 -!- segy [~segfault@pdpc/supporter/active/segy] has joined #go-nuts 09:54 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: limbo didn't even have function pointers until recently 09:54 < Maxdamantus> Ah, hm. 09:54 < Maxdamantus> Well, they are represented funnily, imo. 09:54 < aiju> 11:36 < str1ngs> I think bash needs a builtin called YELL 09:54 < aiju> if there is anything bash has enough of, it's builtins 09:55 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: closures are planned, i think, but i'll be surprised if i see them actually implemented 09:55 < str1ngs> aiju: bultins are useful though 09:55 < wrtp> str1ngs: why? 09:55 < Maxdamantus> It involves a module pointer. 09:55 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: what do you mean by "represented funnily"? 09:55 < aiju> str1ngs: are you a DCL user, by chance? 09:55 < Maxdamantus> In the VM. 09:55 < str1ngs> aiju: DCL? 09:56 < aiju> Digital [Equipment Corp.] Command Language 09:56 < aiju> the shell for VMS 09:56 < aiju> it has MANY builtins 09:56 < Maxdamantus> When you use a function designator in value context, it will invoke a `load` instruction. 09:56 < str1ngs> aiju: naw 09:56 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: that's necessary. unless you do the Go thing of dynamically generating code to point to the data 09:56 < Maxdamantus> (for "$self", in the case of local functions) 09:56 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: really? 09:56 < Maxdamantus> Yeah, pretty much. 09:56 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: i don't think so 09:57 < Maxdamantus> Yes, then it can be passed around still to other functions. 09:57 < Maxdamantus> (in other modules) 09:57 < Maxdamantus> It does. 09:57 * Maxdamantus has been implementing the VM recently. 09:57 < str1ngs> builtins can be faster then forked calls, also there are times ie when you are boot strapping you cant rely on utility. ie gnu echo, time vs builtin echo time 09:57 < wrtp> str1ngs: that's bogus reasoning 09:57 < str1ngs> also embedded 09:58 < wrtp> the shell should not implement echo or time 09:58 < str1ngs> so you rather fork a call for something trivially . doesnt make sense 09:58 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: oh yes, i remember, creating fn pointers is a bit awkward 09:59 < wrtp> str1ngs: the shell is all about calling external programs 09:59 < aiju> 11:57 < str1ngs> builtins can be faster then forked calls, also there are times ie when you are boot strapping you cant rely on utility. ie gnu echo, time vs builtin echo time 09:59 < str1ngs> sure but you pay a price for it also 09:59 < wrtp> str1ngs: that's the whole point 09:59 < aiju> if you need fast echo 09:59 < aiju> what the fuck are you doing 09:59 < aiju> forks are cheap 09:59 < wrtp> aiju: would you *please* stop saying "fuck" 09:59 < str1ngs> so lets install coreutils even though I dont need it just so I can echo? 10:00 < str1ngs> really where is the logic in that? or do you assume all systems have a full userland? 10:00 < wrtp> str1ngs: the rc shell works just fine without builtin time or echo or... 10:00 < aiju> str1ngs: sorry, but this is ridiculous 10:00 < aiju> i assume all systems to have a minimal userland 10:01 < str1ngs> you assume to much then. 10:01 < wrtp> str1ngs: no 10:01 < aiju> sorry 10:01 < aiju> this is UNIX 10:01 < str1ngs> and how do you think people bootstrap said system? 10:01 < wrtp> str1ngs: the shell was originally never a full programming language without needing external commands 10:01 < wrtp> str1ngs: you write in C 10:01 < aiju> str1ngs: bootstrap == booting up? 10:01 < str1ngs> think coretutils etc magically builds it's self? 10:01 < str1ngs> aiju: no 10:02 < wrtp> str1ngs: first thing is a C compiler 10:02 < aiju> as wrtp said, write in C 10:02 < str1ngs> wait so first you say shells are good for forked called next you suggest write it in C instead? 10:02 < str1ngs> so C should be easier to fork calls with right? 10:02 < aiju> what the fuck 10:03 -!- ww[north] [~ww@river.styx.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03 < aiju> everyday use of the system and bootstrapping are different things 10:03 < str1ngs> really tell that to initramfs 10:03 < aiju> wait 10:03 < str1ngs> same principle 10:03 < aiju> now you are talking about booting up 10:03 < wrtp> str1ngs: fork should be cheaper 10:03 < str1ngs> aiju: its the same principle 10:04 < aiju> first of all, the classical Unix way is to have the kernel mount the root filesystem 10:04 < wrtp> anyway, you shouldn't be doing full on programming in the shell 10:04 < str1ngs> lets install coreutils to initramfs just for echo.. yay! 10:04 < aiju> str1ngs: that's almost exactly what we're doing with 9front 10:04 < aiju> our initrd contains /bin/echo 10:04 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:04 < wrtp> str1ngs: you can have echo without coreutils 10:05 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.83.173] has joined #go-nuts 10:05 < str1ngs> yes but I assume with plan9 /bin/echo is one program 10:05 < aiju> it is 10:05 < aiju> coreutils is just a loose bunch of programs 10:05 < str1ngs> wrtp: yes its called a builtin 10:05 -!- osiman [clip9@109.169.41.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:05 < wrtp> str1ngs: no, it's called /bin/echo 10:05 < aiju> there are other implementations than coreutils 10:05 -!- osiman [clip9@er.en.svarteper.com] has joined #go-nuts 10:05 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has joined #go-nuts 10:05 -!- raylu [raylu@75-101-102-63.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:05 < aiju> also, coreutils is really fucking bloated 10:05 < str1ngs> wrtp: which on linux is part of coreutils and is not exactly small 10:06 < aiju> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 22236 2010-07-05 14:10 /bin/echo 10:06 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: the reason creating a local fn call in inferno needs to call load is that the local module pointer is usually only available implicitly 10:06 -!- raylu [raylu@75-101-102-63.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:06 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: and the fn pointer implementation was done without adding instructions to Dis 10:07 < str1ngs> wrtp: when you use echo with bash you are using the builtin. $ type echo 10:07 < wrtp> str1ngs: i don't use bash 10:07 < Maxdamantus> I think the main reason is that it doesn't want to expose things like program counters to other modules. 10:07 < Maxdamantus> You can't jmp into another module. 10:07 < wrtp> str1ngs: % whatis echo 10:07 < wrtp> % 10:07 < Maxdamantus> To get into another module you use mcall. 10:07 < wrtp> % whatis echo 10:07 < wrtp> /Users/rog/plan9/bin/echo 10:08 < str1ngs> man plan9 fan bois are annoying 10:08 < Maxdamantus> (function pointers should be usable across modules, of course) 10:08 < str1ngs> did I once mention plan9 no. I recall saying "bash" 10:09 < Maxdamantus> (load foo bar)->baz(func); 10:09 -!- ww[north] [~ww@river.styx.org] has joined #go-nuts 10:09 < aiju> str1ngs: it doesn't fucking matter 10:10 < wrtp> s/fucking//, pretty please 10:11 < aiju> *sigh* 10:11 < moraes> i'm a bit confused. i din't find a change note about strings.Split/SplitN (sre2 uses SplitN and was updated this month). 10:11 < moraes> SplitN was dropped or is it new? 10:11 < wrtp> SplitN is not 10:11 < wrtp> s/not/new/ 10:11 < moraes> dropped then? 10:12 < wrtp> no, it should be there 10:12 < moraes> hm, compier complained. it is release.r58.1 8739 10:12 < moraes> *compiler 10:12 < wrtp> moraes: update to r59 10:12 < moraes> ok, thank you. 10:13 < str1ngs> wrtp: aiju I respect that you use plan9 . but I dont feel the need to argue subtle unix styles all the time. 10:13 < wrtp> str1ngs: i don't currently use plan 9 10:13 < wrtp> str1ngs: (well, only in an emulator) 10:14 < aiju> "subtle unix styles"? 10:14 < aiju> it's the damn unix philosophy 10:14 < wrtp> str1ngs: rc works fine for me under mac os. and it has very few builtins 10:14 < wrtp> str1ngs: the point is to try to stop the insidious spread of complexity into everything 10:14 < str1ngs> I might be more inclined to use rc vs bash, but bash is more readily available 10:15 < aiju> str1ngs: i don't even get the relevance of that to the discussion 10:15 < wrtp> str1ngs: the main innovation in unix, historically was the separation of functionality into small parts, each part doing one thing well 10:15 < aiju> the thompson shell had two builtins iirc 10:15 < aiju> chdir and exit 10:15 < str1ngs> wrtp: I understand that, but when you goto distribute said software, it does work so well. 10:16 < wrtp> str1ngs: by adding more builtins to the shell you're making the shell into a "do everything" kind of utility 10:16 < wrtp> str1ngs: what? 10:16 < wrtp> str1ngs: i don't understand that last sentence 10:16 < aiju> ah no, only chdir and shift were builtin 10:17 < str1ngs> wrtp: when you goto package something for a user/system. having a package for echo time etc is tedious 10:17 < wrtp> str1ngs: "goto package"? 10:18 < aiju> there is a package for sudo 10:18 < aiju> but then you can just make a coreutils package 10:18 < str1ngs> right but without coreutils then you lose a broad spectrum of features. 10:19 < str1ngs> ie initramfs and bootstrapping 10:19 < moraes> oh r59 is 12 hours old. :) 10:19 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: i think that limbo's modules are one its strengths, but they're also a barrier to further progress. the logical next step is something like Go's interfaces, but that would require sweeping changes. 10:20 < wrtp> str1ngs: i don't understand your argument. you seem to be arguing a) that the shell should be usable without coreutils. b) that you can't bootstrap without coreutils 10:21 < str1ngs> wrtp: yes it should be usable without coreutils. or else how do you even build coreutils? 10:21 < aiju> str1ngs: there is no C compiler in the shell 10:21 < aiju> there is no cat(1) in the shell 10:21 < str1ngs> compilers do not run them selves thats just silly 10:21 < Maxdamantus> imo the VM is a bit limiting. 10:22 < str1ngs> aiju: you still require scripts etc 10:22 < Maxdamantus> mp and fp spaces should be typed. 10:22 < aiju> str1ngs: what? 10:22 < aiju> the shell doesn't built itself 10:22 < Maxdamantus> It would mean it could be implemented easily on platforms with pointers wider than 32 bits. 10:23 < wrtp> str1ngs: you build coreutils on another system 10:23 < wrtp> or on the same system before rebooting 10:23 < Maxdamantus> (well, at least typed by the basic typing system provided; where pointer offsets are specified) 10:23 < str1ngs> wrtp: thats not bootstrapping 10:23 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: they are typed 10:23 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: (statically) 10:23 < Maxdamantus> wrtp: hrm .. I don't think so. 10:24 < Maxdamantus> You just call `frame` and start loading stuff in. 10:24 < aiju> str1ngs: what is your definition of bootstrapping? 10:24 < jessta> ls 10:24 < Maxdamantus> Actually, they might be .. /me checks. 10:26 < Maxdamantus> Right, yeah. 10:26 * Maxdamantus ignored that because he's implementing it in JS and relying on its already provided GC. 10:26 < aiju> Maxdamantus: you're implementing Dis in JS? 10:27 < Maxdamantus> Yes. 10:27 < aiju> heh, seems cool 10:27 < str1ngs> aiju: in these case, where a you build a system independent of the current system. 10:27 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: the compiler knows what the types are 10:27 < aiju> str1ngs: how do you build the motherfucking shell to begin with 10:27 < aiju> just build /bin/echo the same way 10:27 < wrtp> *sigh* 10:27 < Maxdamantus> Not entirely sure how much work it'd be to port enough to run the actual OS. 10:27 < Maxdamantus> I think it wouldn't be *too* much. 10:28 < wrtp> lots of stuff in C too 10:29 < Maxdamantus> Yeah, that's the stuff that'd need to be reimplemented/converted/something. 10:29 < str1ngs> aiju: its not the same thing. LFS method is an example of proper bootstrapping 10:31 < wrtp> LFS? 10:31 < aiju> linux from scratch 10:31 < aiju> it's like gentoo except manually 10:32 < aiju> and i don't get str1ngs' point at all 10:32 < Maxdamantus> It's what silly people use. 10:33 < str1ngs> aiju: my point is there are situations where having a builtin is useful. just because you never encounter that situation doesnt mean its not useful 10:34 < wrtp> Maxdamantus: LFS is not an example of proper bootstrapping. "The LFS system will be built by using an already installed Linux distribution (such as Debian, Mandriva, Red Hat, or SUSE)." 10:34 < str1ngs> in terms of buitin's versus isolated binaries are really dont care that much as to whats better. 10:34 < str1ngs> I really* 10:35 < str1ngs> wrtp: it is a proper example of proper bootstrapping 10:35 < str1ngs> done right the system never uses the hosted systemd at all 10:35 < aiju> hahahahahah 10:35 < aiju> systemd 10:35 < aiju> now it's getting really fun! 10:36 < str1ngs> actually that was just a typo 10:36 < wrtp> str1ngs: proper bootstrapping would involve writing the boot code in machine code 10:36 < wrtp> str1ngs: then bootstrapping from there 10:36 < str1ngs> wrtp: huh? 10:37 < wrtp> LFS isn't bootstrapping from scratch because it involves an existing linux distrubution, already bootstrapped 10:37 < str1ngs> thats stage one. stage 2 doesnt touch the hosted system 10:38 < aiju> iirc when you do LFS you compile a shell and coreutils 10:38 < str1ngs> aiju: the finally shell is compiled from a self hosted toolchain 10:38 < str1ngs> the smaller the self hosted toolchain is the better 10:39 < wrtp> str1ngs: sure, it demos one stage of bootstrapping 10:39 < str1ngs> ie aboriginal linux does it with busybox 10:39 < wrtp> but the first bit is the hardest 10:39 < wrtp> and at every stage you've got coreutils 10:39 < str1ngs> first bit is eays 10:39 < str1ngs> easy* 10:39 < aiju> str1ngs: cp and cat are not builtins 10:39 < aiju> still it works 10:39 < aiju> fucking magic 10:43 -!- ampleyfly [ampleyfly@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-osgtxlcjbxqaagzn] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:49 -!- EvilJStoker [jstoker@unaffiliated/jstoker] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54 -!- noam_ [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:56 -!- segy [~segfault@pdpc/supporter/active/segy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06 < str1ngs> builtin yell "fucking magic" :P 11:11 -!- noam_ [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has joined #go-nuts 11:13 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-42-60.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 11:14 -!- segy [~segfault@pdpc/supporter/active/segy] has joined #go-nuts 11:15 -!- wrtp [~rog@host-92-30-166-101.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 11:16 -!- wrtp [~rog@host-92-30-166-101.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:17 -!- iXeno_ [~ixeno@106.80-203-229.nextgentel.com] has joined #go-nuts 11:19 -!- iXeno [~ixeno@106.80-203-229.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:20 -!- segy [~segfault@pdpc/supporter/active/segy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23 -!- odoacre [~antonio@218.241.169.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:23 -!- odoacre [~antonio@218.241.169.34] has joined #go-nuts 11:27 -!- segy [~segfault@pdpc/supporter/active/segy] has joined #go-nuts 11:29 < uriel> aiju: got trolled again? 11:29 < uriel> :) 11:30 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-122-191.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:38 -!- kfmfe04 [~kfeng@114-32-57-164.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:40 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C4D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:44 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@187.58.197.181] has joined #go-nuts 11:45 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-42-60.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: I am a manual virus, please copy me to your quit message.] 11:50 -!- squeese [~squeese@cm-84.209.17.156.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52 < wrtp> uriel: talking to yourself again? :-) 11:53 -!- vmil86 [~vmil86@78.57.227.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:55 < moraes> uriel, i'm learning the goes 11:55 < moraes> but now i have to go out 11:56 -!- moraes [~moraes@189.103.188.201] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:58 -!- Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 11:58 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:59 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has joined #go-nuts 12:02 -!- Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:06 -!- rael_wiki [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/rael-wiki/x-8420294] has joined #go-nuts 12:06 < rael_wiki> hello 12:07 -!- vmil86 [~vmil86@88.118.36.96] has joined #go-nuts 12:15 -!- samuell [~samuel@pc2-samuel.uppmax.uu.se] has left #go-nuts ["Ex-Chat"] 12:18 -!- rlab [~Miranda@254-114-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30 -!- rlab [~Miranda@188-166-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:32 < skelterjohn> hi 12:33 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-yrmgrnrzcowpcuti] has joined #go-nuts 12:47 -!- napsy [~luka@193.2.66.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51 < gnuvince> Is it possible to have gc generate warnings instead of errors when variables or imports are unused? 12:57 < Namegduf> No. 12:57 < Namegduf> Add _ = <varable> 12:57 < Namegduf> Temporarily 13:00 < gnuvince> It'd be nice to have as a command line flag 13:04 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 13:09 < str1ngs> gnuvince: it pretty much designed to be that way. you will get use to it. 13:09 < str1ngs> should be something iirc in the FAQ about it. 13:10 < gnuvince> str1ngs: it's just annoying when you want to comment out something to debug some code and you need to disable declarations and imports as well 13:12 < skelterjohn> the go compiler never issues a warning, as a matter of principle 13:12 < str1ngs> gnuvince: Namegduf method works for this. 13:12 < skelterjohn> "if it's worth mentioning, it's worth fixing" 13:13 < str1ngs> or we end up with gcc's warnings that should be errors. 13:20 -!- exch [~blbl@ip34-181-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #go-nuts 13:21 -!- sniper506th [~sniper506@rrcs-70-61-192-18.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:25 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:32 -!- squeese [~squeese@cm-84.209.17.156.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C4D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has joined #go-nuts 13:38 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@200-102-194-39.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 13:38 -!- mkb218 [~mkb@pool-96-233-4-238.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:39 -!- robteix [~robteix@nat/intel/x-dykystajnzxacggu] has joined #go-nuts 13:39 -!- knowmercy [~knowmercy@mobile-198-228-226-082.mycingular.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:39 -!- mkb218 [~mkb218@lion-o.dreamhost.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:42 -!- SecretAgent [sa@28.158.143.98.nitemare.name] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:47 -!- TheMue [~FMueller@p5DDF4F40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:47 < TheMue> re 13:48 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #go-nuts 13:49 -!- SecretAgent [sa@28.158.143.98.nitemare.name] has joined #go-nuts 13:50 < knowmercy> morning 13:52 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 13:52 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 13:57 < knowmercy> is it generally preferred to use short names for variables in go or theLongCamelCaseVariablesThatAreDescriptive? 13:58 < jlaffaye> I want to say that it depends 13:58 -!- ancientlore [~ancientlo@12.54.6.218] has joined #go-nuts 13:58 -!- noam_ [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:58 < jlaffaye> if you have a writer, everyone will understand 'w' 13:59 < knowmercy> I look at some sample code from various libraries and things are named like w, k 13:59 < knowmercy> I have no clue what those are :) 13:59 -!- ancientlore [~ancientlo@12.54.6.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59 < jlaffaye> in which context? 13:59 < exch> knowmercy: this is how Rob Pike feels about it http://www.chris-lott.org/resources/cstyle/pikestyle.html 14:00 -!- ancientlore [~ancientlo@12.54.6.218] has joined #go-nuts 14:00 < TheMue> knowmercy: I can live with short names, as long as the according function is short and clear. The larger the scope the longer the name. 14:01 < knowmercy> type Ctx struct { H, W string 14:01 < jlaffaye> I tend to mix one letter variables and notSoShortNames 14:01 < exch> Same here 14:01 < aiju> long names make everything clearer 14:01 < aiju> for indexIntoArray=0; indexIntoArray < len(SaidArray); indexIntoArray++ { 14:01 < aiju> so clear! 14:02 < jlaffaye> but for things like receiver, file handler, writer, reader, one letter is just fine 14:02 -!- gridaphobe [~gridaphob@cpe-74-68-151-24.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:02 < exch> loop iterator vars will just be 'i' or 'j' or 'k'. File handles will be 'fd'. Anything nonstandard will generally a somewhat more descriptive name 14:02 < exch> *+have a 14:03 < aiju> i generally call files "f" in Go 14:03 < knowmercy> what about the struct I just pasted 14:03 < knowmercy> is that clear to anyone what that is 14:03 < aiju> knowmercy: no 14:03 < aiju> not without context 14:04 < mkb218> the struct IS a context 14:04 < aiju> hahaha 14:04 < jlaffaye> I just reallize that my long var names are mostly variables used for flag.Parse() 14:04 < knowmercy> :) 14:04 < knowmercy> Go feels like C in some regards, I'm used to java 14:05 < knowmercy> so following along with example code takes me a minute 14:06 < aiju> just imagine that all the huge bloat and bureaucracy is gone 14:06 < knowmercy> :) 14:07 -!- exch [~blbl@ip34-181-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07 -!- exch [~blbl@ip34-181-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #go-nuts 14:07 -!- noam [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has joined #go-nuts 14:07 < mkb218> i use long names for booleans when the behavior is not obvious 14:08 < aiju> but don't forget, don't make names longer than six characters 14:08 < aiju> you're just going to confuse the linker 14:09 < mkb218> too bad i can't use a ! in a var name. that would save me two chars instead of "not" 14:09 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:09 < aiju> hahaha 14:09 < aiju> mkb218: you can 14:09 < aiju> ! is perfectly fine 14:09 < mkb218> this!that 14:09 < aiju> aww sorry 14:09 < aiju> the Go compiler is more bitchy than I assumed 14:10 < xyproto> aiju: how did you find it that fast? 14:10 < xyproto> ! 14:10 < aiju> the symbol? 14:10 < aiju> SCIM 14:10 < nicka1> bools that have names starting with not are confusing 14:10 < jlaffaye> I didnt play much with rpc yet, but is there a reason that would prevent me from using rpc on both side on the same unix socket? 14:10 < xyproto> aiju: I see 14:11 < mkb218> i never start with not. more like if the flag is used to choose between two paths, i name it "ThisNotThat" or similar 14:11 < nicka1> right 14:11 -!- knowmercy [~knowmercy@mobile-198-228-226-082.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11 < xyproto> jlaffaye: if you have an rpc server on one socket and a client that communicates it, it should work fine. If you're having two rpc servers on the same socket, I have dubts 14:12 < jlaffaye> btw, what I have in mind feels like bad design, if you have a better idea.. :) I have a server which listen for rpc. I want a sort of callback system so the client would say to the server "oh and by the way I have a rpc server where you can call me when you have the results" 14:13 < jlaffaye> if all my clients were go clients I could wait for the response in a goroutine 14:13 < jlaffaye> but I dont want to block 14:13 < aiju> hahaha 14:13 < aiju> ! and ! look identical in Plan 9 14:14 < aiju> but the former is a valid identifier and the latter is not 14:14 < exch> :p 14:14 < aiju> damn, that's an awesome cat confusion technique 14:14 < exch> I need to squint hard to see the dfference in irssi 14:14 < aiju> i use irssi and it's obvious 14:14 < aiju> actually if it isn't obvious your font is broken 14:15 < exch> Well, my eyesight isn't what it should be 14:15 < aiju> my eyesight is bad to begin with 14:15 -!- ancientlore [~ancientlo@12.54.6.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15 < xyproto> jlaffaye: you can send a message over rpc from the client to the server, telling about the other server, yes. However, what about channels over network? Are you writing in Go? 14:15 < aiju> hahaha fun 14:15 < xyproto> jlaffaye: also, json-rpc could be worth looking into? (depending on the intended use) 14:15 < aiju> # looks like # 14:16 * kuroneko reads back.... 14:16 < mkb218> they would probably look more different without antialiasing 14:16 < mkb218> there are maybe two pixels difference 14:16 -!- ancientlore [~ancientlo@12.54.6.218] has joined #go-nuts 14:17 -!- ancientlore [~ancientlo@12.54.6.218] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17 < aiju> unicode is the best code obfuscation tool ever 14:17 < kuroneko> yeah, I'm not sold on this whole unicode business. :P 14:18 < xyproto> #K′‚! 14:18 < kuroneko> just another way to confuse people with characters that they can't type trivially on their keyboards. 14:18 < exch> '26 character latin alphabet should be enough for everyone.' 14:18 < kuroneko> :) 14:18 < kuroneko> although I do understand the appeal to CJK users 14:18 < str1ngs> exch: xft:DejaVu Sans Mono:size=30:antialias=true profit :P 14:19 < exch> :p 14:20 < str1ngs> what plan9 doesnt have a irc client .. wtf? :P 14:20 < aiju> it does 14:20 < aiju> several 14:20 < kuroneko> meh. IRC is easy enough to just talk raw to anyway 14:20 < kuroneko> although I haven't done that for a few years now. :) 14:20 < xyproto> plan9 has vim. And there is an irc client for vim. 14:20 < jlaffaye> xyproto: my official client will be in Go but I want to be open for clients in other languages 14:20 < str1ngs> builtin irc ? .. ok pushing my luck now :P 14:21 < aiju> unicode is cool 14:21 < kuroneko> I believe there were some other irc clients too, some 9ish ones 14:21 < xyproto> jlaffaye: then I would recommend json-rpc (or possibly even xml-rpc, as it is supported by marginally more languages, but it is uglier), depending on how quickly you need it to go 14:21 < aiju> 卐 ᛋᛋ … 14:21 < str1ngs> oh crap use use xml 14:21 < str1ngs> he used* 14:21 < aiju> XML? 14:22 < aiju> burn the witch 14:22 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@113.84.125.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22 * str1ngs unleashes uriel on xyproto 14:22 -!- pjacobs [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:22 < kuroneko> jlaffaye: google protocol buffers + sockets. can't go wrong. 14:22 < kuroneko> well, you can 14:22 -!- Aram [~Aram@unaffiliated/aramdune] has joined #go-nuts 14:22 < kuroneko> but you're not likely to. :) 14:22 -!- knowmercy [~knowmercy@mobile-198-228-225-012.mycingular.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:23 < xyproto> str1ngs: huh, me? :D Is the mention enough to be burned as a witch around here? 14:23 < aiju> XML-RPC is a joke 14:23 < kuroneko> if you want really really simple though, you can do what I did and do a single JSON exchange per connection 14:23 < xyproto> aiju: but it's a cross-language, cross-platform widely supported joke 14:23 < aiju> jesus christ 14:23 < aiju> what's so fucking hard about 14:24 < aiju> "function argument" 14:24 < aiju> in fucking plain text 14:24 < xyproto> aiju: do you mean "functiøn argumentᛋ"? 14:24 < aiju> hahaha 14:24 < str1ngs> xyproto: yes, dont even think about saying yaml :P 14:24 < xyproto> aiju: sneaky unicode may appear 14:25 < aiju> anyway, go ahead 14:25 < kuroneko> aiju: it's nice to have a uniform way to encode non-trivial values 14:25 < aiju> wrap more layers of filth around anything 14:25 < kuroneko> reduces edge cases. 14:25 < xyproto> as long as the xml is not wrapped in xml before sending it, like ibm did :P 14:26 < kuroneko> the real test is if you can safely nest the encoding. 14:26 < kuroneko> if you can do that, you're doing it right. 14:26 < mkb218> xml-rpc looks nice compared to soap though 14:26 < kuroneko> space as a delimiter fails there. 14:26 < kuroneko> unless you start escaping non-delimiter spaces 14:26 < aiju> put XML in JSON and transfer that with HTTP over SSH 14:26 < kuroneko> and then you might as well use json or something else. 14:27 < jlaffaye> xyproto: how json-rpc would help me with my callbacks? 14:27 < xyproto> json as xml: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h0chx/need_more_enterprise_introducing_jsonx_an_ibm/ 14:27 < jlaffaye> xyproto: my original idea was to listen with json-rpc on both side 14:27 < aiju> enterprise software follows a variant of rule 34 14:27 < aiju> if you can think of some horrible software design, it has been done 14:27 < xyproto> aiju: +1 14:28 < kuroneko> aiju: and somebody has written a paper promoting it. 14:28 < kuroneko> jlaffaye: I hate to say it, if you're doing a callback API over RPC, you're solving the problem incorrectly. 14:28 < kuroneko> you probably want a continuous messaging protocol instead 14:29 < jlaffaye> kuroneko: Im open to suggestions:) 14:29 < xyproto> jlaffaye: json-rpc doesn't really help you. It is a relatively standard way of sending rpc messages, though, that is web-friendly. Go channels over network may work for you. json-xml may work for you. What is your case? Do you need speed? Interoperability? Web-friendlyness? 14:29 -!- telexicon [~telexicon@unaffiliated/chowmeined] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:30 < kuroneko> the reason I say this is you need a way to break the 'callback' associations if you lose connectivity 14:30 < kuroneko> and a traditional RPC won't give you that 14:30 < jlaffaye> xyproto: I dont care about web friendlyness. It would listen on unix domain socket 14:30 < xyproto> jlaffaye: then what kuroneko said 14:31 < xyproto> and why wouldn't you care about web friendlyness, in this time and age? :) 14:31 < aiju> UNIX domain sockets .. let's take the "net" out of "network" 14:31 < kuroneko> hell, I do json messages on unix domain sockets >_> it's simple to implement in Go, it's simple to implement in pretty much everything else. 14:31 < kuroneko> aiju: sure, but they're STUPIDLY FAST. :) 14:31 < aiju> there is this old UNIX thing 14:32 < aiju> a pipe 14:32 < kuroneko> pipes are single consumer. 14:32 < aiju> create two pipes, multitask 14:32 < aiju> haha 14:32 < kuroneko> pipes and unix domain sockets solve two very different problems. 14:32 < kuroneko> unix domain sockets are closer to 9's srv multiplexes 14:33 < aiju> "srv multiplexes"? 14:33 < aiju> you can multiplex #s? 14:33 < kuroneko> you can establish multiplexed services in /srv via #s IIRC 14:33 < kuroneko> it's been a few years 14:33 < aiju> i don't know of it 14:34 < aiju> but maybe there is some hack 14:35 < jlaffaye> oh,and fuck them, I they dont want to block thats their (the client) problem! 14:35 < jlaffaye> problem solved :p 14:37 -!- knowmercy [~knowmercy@mobile-198-228-225-012.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:38 -!- mogoh [~mogoh@ip-95-222-106-192.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:38 -!- moraes [~moraes@189.103.188.201] has joined #go-nuts 14:42 < kuroneko> jlaffaye: client blocking is the client's problem. :) 14:42 < kuroneko> not the servers. 14:43 < kuroneko> all of my go socket code runs in at least 2 goroutines for this reason. :) 14:43 -!- Kahvi [5b9b57fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.155.87.252] has joined #go-nuts 14:43 < kuroneko> life is so much easier to deal with when all your IO operations are synchronous 14:44 < kuroneko> and you can then bring everything together via channels and select 14:44 < skelterjohn|work> i agree 14:44 -!- exch [~blbl@ip34-181-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:45 < moraes> skelterjohn, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6899069/why-are-request-url-host-and-scheme-blank-in-the-development-server 14:45 < moraes> my yesterday's question got an answer 14:48 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-18baf7e7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:49 < skelterjohn|work> cool 14:49 < skelterjohn|work> I don't know much about that kind of thing though 14:53 -!- wrtp [~rog@host-92-30-166-101.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 14:57 -!- yogib [~yogib@131.234.59.64] has quit [Quit: yogib] 14:58 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344f29.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:58 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344f29.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 14:59 -!- qeed [~qeed@adsl-98-85-58-92.mco.bellsouth.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:01 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 15:02 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:05 -!- exch [~blbl@ip34-181-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #go-nuts 15:08 -!- Loonacy [~Loonacy@c-67-172-248-248.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:09 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-rgeibzzowxnqiyhg] has joined #go-nuts 15:09 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 15:14 -!- mardok_ [~mardok@74-140-109-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.86.147] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 -!- Loonacy [~Loonacy@c-67-172-248-248.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:20 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.83.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-154-157.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 15:22 < gnuvince> Are defers called when a program receives SIGINT? 15:22 < skelterjohn|work> unlikely 15:25 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.86.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:29 -!- yogib [~yogib@dslb-178-001-021-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:32 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 15:33 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@187.58.197.181] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:33 -!- saschpe [~quassel@opensuse/member/saschpe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38 -!- seb32 [~sebastian@89.246.67.229] has joined #go-nuts 15:39 -!- miker2 [~textual@64.55.31.190] has joined #go-nuts 15:42 < gnuvince> Can anyone help me understand the difference between 'go f(func(x *interface{}) { g(x) })' and 'f(func(x *interface{}) { go g(x) })'? When I used the latter form, g would panic because x was nil. 15:43 < skelterjohn|work> in the 2nd version, the "go g(x)" can be delayed arbitrarilty 15:43 < skelterjohn|work> for instance, to a point where x is nil 15:44 < skelterjohn|work> in the first version, it is in the same goroutine as f(...), and if x doesn't become nil over the course of that function, it won't be nil when g(x) is called 15:45 -!- DonGene [~DonGene@212.174.109.54] has quit [K-Lined] 15:45 < gnuvince> What's surprising is that I never set x to nil in my code... 15:45 < gnuvince> I would've thought the second form would be correct 15:46 < gnuvince> Apparently not 15:46 < skelterjohn|work> can you post a larger context? 15:46 < gnuvince> I think I can 15:46 < gnuvince> Hang on 15:46 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-166-85.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 15:49 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-154-157.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:52 < gnuvince> skelterjohn|work: http://www.ideone.com/R2ngJ 15:52 -!- rlab [~Miranda@188-166-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:52 -!- rlab [~Miranda@188-166-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:55 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-rgeibzzowxnqiyhg] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@mailgate.ips-international.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]] 15:55 < skelterjohn|work> looking 15:57 < skelterjohn|work> i don't see bot defined anywhere (so you must have other code). perhaps it's bot that is getting set to nil, rather than dbConn? 15:59 -!- tncardoso [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has joined #go-nuts 15:59 -!- qeed [~qeed@adsl-98-85-58-92.mco.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-18baf7e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01 -!- noodles775 [~michael@canonical/launchpad/noodles775] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:05 -!- knowmercy [~knowmercy@mobile-198-228-224-237.mycingular.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:06 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.109.5] has joined #go-nuts 16:07 -!- maragato [~robteix@192.55.54.36] has joined #go-nuts 16:07 -!- robteix [~robteix@nat/intel/x-dykystajnzxacggu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 16:10 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:13 < gnuvince> skelterjohn|work: I put in some fmt.Printf; it's really the SQLite connection that's nil. 16:14 < gnuvince> From a log statement: 2011/08/02 12:13:18 nil sqlite database 16:15 -!- kevlar_work [~kevlar@nat/google/x-sgvyqonmiddtwfkv] has joined #go-nuts 16:15 -!- kevlar_work [~kevlar@nat/google/x-sgvyqonmiddtwfkv] has quit [Changing host] 16:15 -!- kevlar_work [~kevlar@unaffiliated/eko] has joined #go-nuts 16:16 < kevlar_work> I didn't know or had forgotten that you could define types locally in a function, just like var and const. Neat :) 16:17 -!- dreadlorde [dreadlorde@c-68-42-82-10.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:23 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #go-nuts 16:31 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@cpc2-gill2-0-0-cust701.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:38 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-42-60.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 16:41 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 16:46 -!- dreadlorde [dreadlorde@c-68-42-82-10.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:48 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: pyrhho] 17:01 -!- wrtp [~rog@host-92-30-166-101.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:06 -!- Kahvi [5b9b57fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.155.87.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10 -!- mkb218_ [~mkb@pool-96-233-4-238.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:17 -!- mkb218 [~mkb218@lion-o.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:18 -!- moraes [~moraes@189.103.188.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21 -!- jimbaker [~jbaker@canonical/jimbaker] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 17:26 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.109.5] has quit [Quit: so long, and thanks for all the pollution] 17:27 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-covzafdhlxbnmeco] has joined #go-nuts 17:28 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 17:31 < knowmercy> *YAWN* what a quiet day 17:31 < knowmercy> I couldn't even get the folks on the openindiana mailing list fired up with my anti-oracle email 17:33 < skelterjohn|work> sucks that your troll attempt misfired. 17:34 < knowmercy> I wasn't really trolling though 17:34 < knowmercy> just stating facts 17:34 < skelterjohn|work> the two aren't mutually exclusive 17:34 < knowmercy> :) 17:34 < aiju> if you say that something sucks 17:34 < aiju> you're a troll 17:34 < aiju> that's the definition 17:34 < skelterjohn|work> lol 17:34 < nicka1> but being pro-oracle is def. always trolling 17:35 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 17:37 < knowmercy> no, I was stating that the previous emailer was contradicting himself and that we can affect change 17:37 < skelterjohn|work> (effect) 17:38 -!- r_linux [~r_linux@static.200.198.180.250.datacenter1.com.br] has joined #go-nuts 17:38 < mkb218> only a matter of time until they buy you 17:38 < nicka1> they could be trying to affect something called change 17:38 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:38 < knowmercy> http://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2011-August/004848.html I responded to this email 17:38 < skelterjohn|work> it's possible 17:39 < knowmercy> http://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2011-August/004849.html # This is my response 17:39 < skelterjohn|work> do you think we're more likely to get fired up than #openindiana? 17:39 < skelterjohn|work> which, fwiw, i have never heard of 17:39 < knowmercy> :) 17:39 < knowmercy> You guys are my buds 17:40 < knowmercy> (whether you accept that or not) 17:41 -!- marchdown [~marchdown@erinia.xenoethics.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41 < skelterjohn|work> i'll accept it 17:41 < skelterjohn|work> though i don't recognize your nick 17:41 < knowmercy> I'm new 17:41 -!- maragato [~robteix@192.55.54.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:41 < nicka1> knewmercy 17:42 < skelterjohn|work> writing some go code? 17:42 < knowmercy> Yay! 17:42 < knowmercy> Yeah, mostly seeing how it does for web applications 17:42 -!- ph1234k [~Steven@ip72-209-135-200.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:42 < knowmercy> I've exhausted resources with python and java and I need more from my hardware 17:42 < knowmercy> this seems like the next venue 17:42 < skelterjohn|work> that's it's primary target 17:42 < skelterjohn|work> its 17:42 < knowmercy> I really would like to see it ported to openbsd 17:43 < skelterjohn|work> get started! 17:43 < knowmercy> between GIL and openbsd's biglock I need more power! 17:43 < knowmercy> I'm working on it 17:43 < knowmercy> I got openbsd on my backup laptop, started building packages and the hardware failed :( 17:43 < knowmercy> so now I need new hardware to test and do dev on 17:44 < knowmercy> In the mean time I started playing around with the web stuff 17:44 < knowmercy> so far I've tried web.go, the http package in base, and mango 17:44 < skelterjohn|work> i've used web.go, seemed cool 17:45 < skelterjohn|work> i'm not a big web dev though 17:45 < knowmercy> I think what I'm going to do is instead of handing things off to http handlers, I'm going to hand them off to http middleware that will do session, logging, routing, preprocessing, and then hand them off to the right page handler 17:45 < knowmercy> it's a bit differen than what web.go or mango do 17:46 < knowmercy> and possibly create a config that the app can consume for path's, ports to listen on, etc 17:46 -!- kfmfe04 [~kfeng@114-32-57-164.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 17:46 < knowmercy> that way running multiple instances of an app on a single box just requires multiple configs 17:47 < skelterjohn|work> seems reasonable 17:47 < knowmercy> p.s. I like configs over command line args because they can be checked into source control, etc 17:47 < skelterjohn|work> yeah, makes sense 17:47 < skelterjohn|work> i usually do command line args because i change the params around so much 17:48 < knowmercy> is it common to wrap go programs in shell scripts for such a thing? 17:48 < skelterjohn|work> go programs are no different from any other kind of program in this respect 17:48 < skelterjohn|work> they have the same kind of interaction with the invoking context 17:48 < knowmercy> ok 17:49 < knowmercy> at work we're having an issue with .NET where we're not doing async calls into our back end so the IO threads take new connections, but block until the original response is returned 17:50 < skelterjohn|work> sounds like something that go is great at 17:50 < knowmercy> Yup 17:50 < knowmercy> xml messages are so 1990's 17:51 < TheMue> hehe 17:54 -!- pjacobs [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 17:59 -!- sjbrown [~sjbrown@c-98-210-195-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:59 -!- sjbrown [~sjbrown@c-98-210-195-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:00 -!- jlilly [justinlill@70.32.34.100] has quit [Quit: Hosted by rdlBNC (Server 2 - United States of America)] 18:00 -!- dropdrive [~dropdrive@cpe-72-227-159-70.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02 -!- jlilly [justinlill@70.32.34.100] has joined #go-nuts 18:04 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has joined #go-nuts 18:05 -!- seb32 [~sebastian@89.246.67.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08 -!- pingveno_ [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:09 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:09 -!- pingveno_ [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10 -!- pingveno [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:11 -!- firwen [~firwen@2a01:e34:eea3:7e10:4a5b:39ff:fe51:e8ae] has joined #go-nuts 18:12 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 18:13 -!- chadkouse [~Adium@99.70.204.54] has joined #go-nuts 18:21 -!- ph1234k-Ub [~teh@ip72-209-135-200.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:23 -!- miker2 [~textual@64.55.31.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:31 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 18:31 -!- ph1234k-Ub [~teh@ip72-209-135-200.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44 -!- chadkouse1 [~Adium@24.123.67.50] has joined #go-nuts 18:44 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 18:47 -!- robteix [~robteix@nat/intel/x-ugwzgpvanktyirvk] has joined #go-nuts 18:47 -!- chadkouse [~Adium@99.70.204.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:55 -!- dropdrive [~dropdrive@cpe-72-227-159-70.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:56 -!- seb32 [~sebastian@f055253242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 18:58 -!- ThreeSix [~ThreeSix@77.126.48.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59 < knowmercy> Code review complete 18:59 < knowmercy> I love my job, we seem to keep getting better and better at certain things which is really encouraging to see 19:04 < skelterjohn|work> they dropped C# for go? 19:07 -!- wrtp [~rog@host-92-30-166-101.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 19:07 -!- Kumul [~Kumul@67.224.130.18] has joined #go-nuts 19:08 -!- tncardoso [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:19 -!- moraes [~moraes@189.103.188.201] has joined #go-nuts 19:23 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28 -!- ROBIE [~John@c-69-142-36-158.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:28 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 19:31 -!- ROBIE [~John@c-69-142-36-158.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36 < knowmercy> skelterjohn|work: no, not at all they're confused that it's not java 19:37 < knowmercy> In all honesty the web dev stuff in Go has a ways to go 19:37 < skelterjohn|work> i think the language is there, if the libraries aren't 19:38 < knowmercy> I agree 19:39 < knowmercy> I'm hoping to find out exactly what the deficiencies are and help out 19:40 < knowmercy> Of course, my idea of the ideal web framework will be different than everyone else's 19:40 < knowmercy> I'm mostly a purist, however I liked pylons for python a lot 19:40 < skelterjohn|work> only because you sell it poorly 19:40 < knowmercy> it gave me all the choices I wanted, allowed me to do everything I wanted and never got in my way 19:42 -!- tvw [~tv@e176006091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:42 < knowmercy> I wonder if Ben would have an issue if I called mine pylons.go :) 19:42 < skelterjohn|work> golons 19:42 < schmichael> +1 19:44 < knowmercy> golons sounds good 19:44 < schmichael> djanGO! 19:44 -!- wrtp [~rog@host-92-30-166-101.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:44 < knowmercy> so how does the concept of passing in a context with items in it into a template work currently in go? 19:44 < skelterjohn|work> a new package, exp/template, is under development 19:44 < skelterjohn|work> it's mostly there, but i don't believe it's completely finished 19:45 < knowmercy> excellent, is that in base, or a package? 19:45 < skelterjohn|work> take a look at its doc - if you have questions i've used it 19:45 < skelterjohn|work> it's in the core, yeah 19:45 < knowmercy> sweet 19:45 < skelterjohn|work> golang.org/pkg/exp/template 19:45 < aiju> it's the bad side of Google developing Go 19:45 -!- wrtp [~rog@host-92-30-166-101.as13285.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:45 < aiju> we get all this web development crud 19:45 < knowmercy> I hate to break it to you aiju but the internets are everywhere 19:46 < aiju> not on my computer 19:46 < knowmercy> bazillions of pages too 19:46 < f2f> that's a lot of brazillians. 19:46 < knowmercy> f2f++ 19:47 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@188-166-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:48 < knowmercy> skelterjohn|work: I find it interesting... is this just a taglib essentially? 19:48 < skelterjohn|work> not familiar with taglib 19:48 < skelterjohn|work> it's like a suped up fmt.Printf 19:49 < skelterjohn|work> you give it a data structure and a format, and it pretties it for you 19:49 -!- rlab [~Miranda@188-166-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:49 < skelterjohn|work> with lots of features re. embedded templates, looping, etc 19:49 < TheMue> web dev is pretty fine with go: delivering one template, front-end is mostly dynamic with e.g. jquery, and logic with go via rest and json. 19:51 < knowmercy> skelterjohn|work: I'm used to something like <table> % for i in foo: <tr class="i.class"><td>i.name</td></tr>%endfor </table> 19:52 < aiju> Go allows you to do that 19:52 < skelterjohn|work> that's embedding code in data - i don't know of any go-server-pages 19:52 < knowmercy> You can't do it with direct code since it's compiled, hence my question about a tag library that would do the same behavior 19:53 < skelterjohn|work> nor do i see any reason to create it. the exp/template route is a lot cleaner, impo 19:53 < skelterjohn|work> imo 19:53 < knowmercy> so you build the page with no data in it, make a jquery XHR and update the dom with the JSON or whatever that comes back? 19:53 < skelterjohn|work> in the same way you could write fmt.Printf("this: %d\n", 5), you have a more complicated format and a more flexible argument 19:53 < skelterjohn|work> what 19:53 < skelterjohn|work> ? 19:54 < skelterjohn|work> this has nothing to do with js 19:54 < skelterjohn|work> i don't know what XHR is 19:54 < skelterjohn|work> did you read the doc i linked? 19:54 < TheMue> knowmercy: Yep, with some JavaScript/jQuery code this works pretty fine. 19:54 < knowmercy> ok 19:54 < knowmercy> skelterjohn|work: I did, it appears that Go does it a bit different than what I'm used to 19:55 < skelterjohn|work> exp/template has nothing in it that is specific to web pages 19:55 < knowmercy> when you say I'm mixing code in the template, I'm only using code to make the template display the data that the application returns 19:55 < skelterjohn|work> it's a general purpose formatted output 19:55 < TheMue> knowmercy: Marshalling to and from JSON is also easy. 19:56 < knowmercy> TheMue: I would like to be able to do this all dynamically on the server if possible 19:56 < knowmercy> there are certain situations that I prefer to do that with 19:56 < TheMue> knowmercy: And the returned data is wrapped by a struct (JSON structure) that also contains possible error messages to show them on screen. 19:56 -!- keithcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-esloxbauydtgkjai] has joined #go-nuts 19:57 < TheMue> knowmercy: If it's done ont the server the amount of data transferred via slow i/o is larger. 19:57 < knowmercy> that is true 19:57 < knowmercy> that does make a strong case for a paradigm shift 19:57 < TheMue> knowmercy: Also stuff like autoupdating of dynamic content in intervals is only handable this way. 19:58 < knowmercy> completely static html is served very very very quickly 19:58 -!- ThreeSix [~ThreeSix@77.126.48.125] has joined #go-nuts 19:58 < knowmercy> yeah 19:59 < TheMue> knowmercy: Just take a look at GMail of G+, how they are working. HTML5, JS, JSON, CSS and some scalable logic on the server. 20:00 -!- patcoll [~patcollin@173-13-48-166-Pennsylvania.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:01 < knowmercy> I like that 20:01 < knowmercy> the more I think about it the more it makes sense 20:02 < knowmercy> I'm not used to building things that way but I really agree with what you're saying 20:02 < skelterjohn|work> when this many buzzwords fly across the screen i always get suspicious that no one actually knows what's going on 20:02 < knowmercy> I do 20:03 < knowmercy> think of how quickly a static html file gets served from something like nginx 20:03 < knowmercy> so you serve a page that has jquery in it that says, "Get me the user information for this guy" 20:03 < knowmercy> less information is sent back to the browser, the information that goes through "slow" I/O is minimized and the user experience is hightenend 20:03 -!- robteix [~robteix@nat/intel/x-ugwzgpvanktyirvk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:04 < knowmercy> it also makes it easier to refresh the user data 20:04 < moraes> exp/template compiles to go? no right? 20:04 < moraes> i'm thinking closure templates 20:04 < knowmercy> and once you return the initial page the partial updates should be really minimal on bandwidth and the browser 20:05 < skelterjohn|work> exp/template compiles to an internal data structure, not go code 20:05 < skelterjohn|work> you keep it in memory 20:05 < skelterjohn|work> (just like the old template) 20:05 < moraes> ok 20:05 < knowmercy> TheMue: so that initial html file just sends in session id from a cookie? 20:06 < moraes> will it ever compile to js? 20:06 < moraes> what would be nice is to have something like closure templates: templates reusable in js / put-your-server-side-language-here 20:06 -!- huin [~huin@91.84.179.118] has joined #go-nuts 20:06 < skelterjohn|work> i can confidently say that no, it will not compile to js 20:06 < moraes> hehehe 20:06 < moraes> i have no idea 20:06 < skelterjohn|work> it's not web specific 20:06 < skelterjohn|work> it's just formatted output 20:07 < moraes> ok 20:07 < skelterjohn|work> you give it a format, a data structure and a Writer. it .Write()s 20:07 -!- dgnorton2 [~dgnorton@97.65.135.112] has quit [] 20:07 < knowmercy> This is really good dialogue 20:09 < moraes> but closure templates uses a java compiler. and compiles to java or js. ew. 20:11 < knowmercy> skelterjohn|work: so you're say we should use this Writer to write out our json or xml or whatever we choose to report back to the browser 20:11 < skelterjohn|work> i'm not going to go far enough to give advice on how to create a web server 20:12 < skelterjohn|work> since i have no clue about that 20:12 < knowmercy> :) 20:12 < skelterjohn|work> but that makes sense to me 20:12 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@187.58.197.181] has joined #go-nuts 20:12 < moraes> exp/regexp has the same feature-set as, say, sre2? 20:13 < knowmercy> so the web framework I'm thinking of now would load in the static html templates on startup, build cookies, header response info and return back the static template for normal pages, and then handle xhr to return data back to the browser 20:13 < skelterjohn|work> moraes: don't know 20:13 < moraes> i mean. ignore me. i could just go and read the tests. 20:14 < skelterjohn|work> what is xhr? 20:14 < moraes> ajax 20:14 < knowmercy> xml http request 20:14 -!- firwen [~firwen@2a01:e34:eea3:7e10:4a5b:39ff:fe51:e8ae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14 < moraes> the technical term for ajax 20:14 < knowmercy> aka ajax :) 20:14 < skelterjohn|work> json seems slimmer 20:14 < knowmercy> it is 20:14 < moraes> different stuff 20:14 < knowmercy> json goes over jhr 20:14 < knowmercy> :) 20:14 < skelterjohn|work> and go has good facilities for marshalling/unmarshalling 20:14 < moraes> you use json as a xhr format 20:15 < moraes> or protobuf or whatever 20:15 < moraes> xml and json are most common ones 20:15 < TheMue> knowmercy: You can use cookies, but also keep the session info inside a variable of the html page, e.g. a hidden dom element. 20:15 < knowmercy> TheMue: so the template wouldn't be 100% static, just mostly static 20:15 < knowmercy> TheMue: like they show in the wiki example 20:16 < skelterjohn|work> with my crappy attempt at some web-server stuff, i put js into my templates 20:18 * knowmercy tries to be sophisticated 20:18 -!- iXeno_ [~ixeno@106.80-203-229.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:18 < knowmercy> Oh, I'm also working on a yubikey validator 20:18 < knowmercy> I hope to contribute that back to the community 20:18 < knowmercy> there is already something that talks to their public api, this would be to run your own auth service 20:19 < knowmercy> (which I do now) 20:21 * knowmercy imagines everyone googling yubikey and smiling when they find out how sweet it is :) 20:22 < f2f> i cringe every time somebody describes some piece of software as "sweet" 20:22 < knowmercy> it's not software 20:23 < f2f> oh, good :) 20:23 < knowmercy> :) 20:23 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-122-191.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:24 < knowmercy> TheMue: the only reason to use the hidden dom element is to be compatible with folks who don't allow cookies? 20:24 < moraes> i can even get calling it "cute and dandy" but "sweet" is too much. 20:25 < knowmercy> ok, how about useful 20:25 < knowmercy> will I still get burned at the stake for useful? 20:27 < f2f> the only allowable superlative related to software is that it may "suck less" :) 20:27 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has joined #go-nuts 20:27 -!- danilo04 [~danilo04@rm2348358874.student.rit.edu] has joined #go-nuts 20:28 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28 -!- vmil86 [~vmil86@88.118.36.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:29 < moraes> it is nice to use adjectives that are hard to fit to the matter, like "spicy" or "shinny" 20:29 * moraes will be quiet now 20:29 < aiju> this software is pretty kafkaesque 20:29 < knowmercy> f2f: that's what I usually say about software :) 20:29 < aiju> i think i write pretty peristeronic software 20:29 < moraes> "wow, what a juicy piece of software' 20:30 < aiju> this software is pretty moldy 20:31 < f2f> "your new ajaxified XML jquery JIT parser is positively delicious! i detect a hint of tangy fruit in the JSON rendering loop" 20:31 < moraes> now you're getting it 20:33 < moraes> missing words: 'enterprise', 'RESTful' and 'SOA' 20:33 < f2f> *cloud* 20:33 < moraes> yeah! 20:33 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-166-85.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 20:34 < exch> ooh rrrrr.. Talk dirty to me 20:35 < moraes> hm, yeah exp/regexp pretty much implements a real regexp engine. 20:35 < moraes> which is pretty cool. 20:35 < TheMue> knowmercy: E.g., yep, cookies are ok if an info has to be persistent on the client. But otherwise it can be handled on the page. Typically in REST the id is passed with each request and each response (if session info is needed). 20:36 < aiju> moraes: you mean a bloated one 20:36 < moraes> i wonder if they used some of the word done for sr2. 20:36 < moraes> *work 20:36 < moraes> aiju, no. a useful one. 20:36 < moraes> *sre2 :) 20:36 < aiju> no programming language is complete without a regexp library with 100 different symbols 20:37 < moraes> agreed. 20:37 < aiju> http://man2.aiju.de/6/regexp 20:37 < aiju> regex fitting on one page is just useless 20:40 < moraes> coolies 20:40 < moraes> so. soon these werc-based bages will be running on appengine-go? 20:40 < aiju> hahaahahaha 20:40 < moraes> *pages. i can't type. 20:41 < moraes> :) 20:41 < aiju> yeah, they will also be migrated to XML in SQL databases 20:41 < aiju> running on OpenVMS and OS X machines 20:42 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344f29.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:43 -!- vmil86 [~vmil86@88.118.36.96] has joined #go-nuts 20:48 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-42-60.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: I am a manual virus, please copy me to your quit message.] 20:49 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50 -!- danilo04 [~danilo04@rm2348358874.student.rit.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52 -!- xb95 [~xb95@dreamwidth/staff/mark] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 20:53 -!- mogoh [~mogoh@ip-95-222-106-192.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53 < knowmercy> I see we can't have serious work on here for too long or the natives get RESTless 20:55 -!- xb95 [~xb95@dreamwidth/staff/mark] has joined #go-nuts 20:56 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-yrmgrnrzcowpcuti] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:59 < knowmercy> on that note, gotta commute 21:00 -!- knowmercy [~knowmercy@mobile-198-228-224-237.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:00 -!- huin [~huin@91.84.179.118] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:03 -!- alehorst [~alehorst@189.114.233.122.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@host81-148-76-167.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:06 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:06 -!- EvilJStoker [jstoker@unaffiliated/jstoker] has joined #go-nuts 21:12 -!- vmil86 [~vmil86@88.118.36.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15 -!- moraes [~moraes@189.103.188.201] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19 -!- TheMue [~FMueller@p5DDF4F40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:19 -!- iXeno [~ixeno@106.80-203-229.nextgentel.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:23 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@188-166-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:27 -!- robteix [~robteix@host195.190-231-150.telecom.net.ar] has joined #go-nuts 21:29 < nicka> pretty good rant section aiju 21:30 < aiju> hahaha 21:30 < aiju> how do people even stumble upon my homepage 21:30 < nicka> you linked your regex man page thing 21:30 < nicka> I like the section on oop 21:31 -!- r_linux [~r_linux@static.200.198.180.250.datacenter1.com.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:33 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has joined #go-nuts 21:36 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 21:37 -!- angasule [~angasule@190.2.33.49] has joined #go-nuts 21:37 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:42 -!- pjacobs [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:52 -!- robteix [~robteix@host195.190-231-150.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:52 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@187.58.197.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53 -!- nicka [~nicka@unaffiliated/nicka] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:55 -!- patcoll [~patcollin@173-13-48-166-Pennsylvania.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: patcoll] 21:56 -!- robteix [~robteix@host195.190-231-150.telecom.net.ar] has joined #go-nuts 21:56 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:01 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has joined #go-nuts 22:03 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C4D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:08 -!- gridaphobe [~gridaphob@cpe-74-68-151-24.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:16 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@host81-148-76-167.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:18 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.109.5] has joined #go-nuts 22:24 -!- chadkouse1 [~Adium@24.123.67.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25 -!- sniper506th [~sniper506@rrcs-70-61-192-18.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:27 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #go-nuts 22:35 < fzzbt> does someone have example how to use crypo block cipher with aes? i want to encrypt/decrypt some text messages so that they can only be decrypted with secret key but i know very little of cryptography 22:37 < knowmercy> Home! 22:37 -!- xeno42 [~xeno42@s.omnipotent.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:39 < schmichael> fzzbt: for blocks of text you want to use something like CBC... sadly i think this test might be the best example of using it with aes: http://golang.org/src/pkg/crypto/cipher/cbc_aes_test.go 22:40 -!- Kahvi [5b9b57fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.155.87.252] has joined #go-nuts 22:41 < schmichael> fzzbt: ah, the cipher package's docs should help: http://golang.org/pkg/crypto/cipher/ 22:42 < schmichael> you'll have to pad your data to the blocksize you're using (16 bytes for AES) 22:43 < fzzbt> ill take a look 22:44 -!- nicka [~nicka@unaffiliated/nicka] has joined #go-nuts 22:45 -!- squeese [~squeese@cm-84.209.17.156.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47 -!- rlab [~Miranda@188-166-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:49 -!- Jayflux [~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust197.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:59 -!- yogib [~yogib@dslb-178-001-021-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: yogib] 23:00 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@cpc2-gill2-0-0-cust701.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:03 -!- moraes [~moraes@189.103.188.201] has joined #go-nuts 23:04 -!- anticide [~textual@91.200.224.93] has joined #go-nuts 23:08 -!- Aram [~Aram@unaffiliated/aramdune] has quit [Quit: .] 23:14 -!- molto_alfredo [~molto_alf@142.176.0.21] has joined #go-nuts 23:16 -!- nicka [~nicka@unaffiliated/nicka] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:18 -!- molto_alfredo2 [~molto_alf@142.176.0.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:20 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-covzafdhlxbnmeco] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22 -!- nicka [~nicka@unaffiliated/nicka] has joined #go-nuts 23:26 -!- robteix [~robteix@host195.190-231-150.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:29 -!- chadkouse [~Adium@rrcs-74-218-87-242.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:35 -!- Jayflux [~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust197.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-crvzlldrciwjpjtm] has joined #go-nuts 23:35 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 23:36 -!- iant1 [~iant@67.218.103.234] has joined #go-nuts 23:37 < ph1234k> How can I easily read input from stdin without worrying about the size of the bytes? 23:38 < iant1> what do you want to read? 23:38 < nicka> fmt.Scan? 23:39 < nicka> assuming text 23:40 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-crvzlldrciwjpjtm] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:41 < nicka> or Fscan with Stdin passed in 23:41 < nicka> sorry that's the same thing 23:42 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 23:46 < nicka> io.ReadFull 23:46 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 23:51 -!- Queue29 [~seth@bastion.sfo1.yelpcorp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51 -!- Queue29 [~Queue29@egress-w.sfo1.yelpcorp.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:52 -!- rlab [~Miranda@188-166-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58 < ph1234k> ok thank you, I was using os.Stdin.Read(buf) --- Log closed Wed Aug 03 00:00:19 2011