--- Log opened Wed Sep 07 00:00:25 2011 00:02 -!- franksalim [~frank@64-71-23-250.static.wiline.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #go-nuts 00:12 -!- areece [~areece@CMU-438263.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #go-nuts 00:22 -!- areece [~areece@CMU-438263.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23 -!- areece [~areece@CMU-438263.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #go-nuts 00:25 -!- c00w [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:26 -!- replore__ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #go-nuts 00:26 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29 -!- Tv__ [~Tv__@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:40 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:40 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@2.81.102.248] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 00:42 < prudhvi> What is the status of Go on Sparc64?. 00:42 -!- c00w [~colin@barh-131.dynamic.rpi.edu] has joined #go-nuts 00:42 < prudhvi> specially Solaris 11x 00:49 -!- rcrowley [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 00:49 -!- rcrowley [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:49 -!- rcrowley [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50 -!- rcrowley [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:52 -!- rcrowley [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52 < jessta> prudhvi: I haven't heard anything. Someone was porting it to Solaris, but I don't think anything was happening with Sparc64 00:52 -!- rcrowley [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:53 -!- ako [~nya@fuld-590c6513.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:54 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c7502.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55 -!- rcrowley_ [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:57 -!- rcrowley [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12 -!- zhujo01 [jon.zhu@CPE00222d5acb80-CM00222d5acb7d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:13 -!- zhujo01 [jon.zhu@CPE00222d5acb80-CM00222d5acb7d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:13 -!- zhujo01 [jon.zhu@CPE00222d5acb80-CM00222d5acb7d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:15 -!- thrashr888 [~thrashr88@64.125.143.6] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 01:17 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Quit: Quit] 01:21 -!- zhujo01 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timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37 -!- shoenig [~seth@rrcs-71-42-216-104.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38 -!- areece [~areece@CMU-438263.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #go-nuts 05:41 -!- fenicks [~fenicks@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has left #go-nuts [] 05:42 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42 -!- goraes [~goraes@189.103.177.124] has joined #go-nuts 05:44 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@563444f2.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:49 -!- areece [~areece@CMU-438263.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:03 -!- meling [~meling@134.81-167-41.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04 -!- wallerdev [~wallerdev@72.44.102.30] has quit [Quit: wallerdev] 06:12 -!- BigBlackDog [~BigBlackD@HSI-KBW-109-192-007-188.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #go-nuts 06:12 < goraes> go'od morning. 06:15 -!- remy_o [~babar@archlinux/developer/remy-o] has joined #go-nuts 06:15 -!- NiteRain [~NiteRain@c-98-254-236-21.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:17 -!- mavar [~mavar@81-226-52-85-no179.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #go-nuts 06:19 -!- raylu [raylu@c-71-202-154-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:25 -!- aat [~aat@cpe-72-225-174-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:33 -!- areece [~areece@CMU-438263.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #go-nuts 06:36 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #go-nuts 06:36 < areece> I've been looking at some Makefiles and I haven't been able to find a way to link local libraries against each other in a satisfactory way. 06:37 < areece> For example, this stack overflow question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1766720/multi-package-makefile-example-for-go 06:37 < areece> The makefile suggest manually specifies GC and LD for each subpackage 06:37 < areece> s/suggest/suggested/ 06:39 -!- heatxsink [u956@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqalehuisaqouvqp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:39 -!- Kai`_ [u327@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntlrueuugglqkqms] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:42 -!- meling [~meling@pico.ux.uis.no] has joined #go-nuts 06:43 -!- yogib [~yogib@dslb-084-062-122-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:44 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54 < jessta> areece: goinstall is usually a better solution than Makefiles 06:54 < areece> how do I test with goinstall? 06:55 < jessta> ah yeah, gotest doesn't work with goinstall 06:55 < areece> or how do I clean compiled object files? 06:55 < areece> :-/ 06:55 < jessta> someone should write a version of gotest that works with goinstall 06:56 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #go-nuts 06:56 < areece> How difficult would it be to add $GOPATH support to the Makefiles? 06:56 < areece> (well, what I'm really asking is whether or not that would solve the problem) 06:57 < jessta> https://github.com/skelterjohn/go-gb will run tests 06:57 < jessta> I hear it's pretty good 06:57 -!- Kai`_ [u327@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdophowcrlysbgkh] has joined #go-nuts 06:57 < areece> Yup, I was working with that 06:57 < areece> It seems mostly optimized for one binary projects 06:58 < areece> For me, I have to do: 06:58 < areece> gd --main="binary1" -o binary1 06:58 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C581.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 06:58 < areece> repeat for binary 2-N 06:58 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 06:58 < areece> So I'd end up using a Makefile wrapper anyways 06:58 -!- fvbommel [~fvbommel_@86.86.15.250] has joined #go-nuts 07:03 -!- remy_o [~babar@archlinux/developer/remy-o] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:07 -!- heatxsink [u956@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aljqcaymiryciblx] has joined #go-nuts 07:10 -!- GeertJohan [~geertjoha@s51478c91.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 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joined #go-nuts 10:09 < Taos> What was go written in 10:11 -!- AlexLuya [AlexLuya@111.186.5.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:13 < goraes> English. 10:13 < goraes> kidding. C. 10:20 < adamhassel> Vim would probably also be a correct answer ;) 10:22 -!- napsy [~luka@193.2.66.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:29 -!- miker2 [~miker2@pool-71-175-94-30.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:30 < ww> UTF-8 10:33 < goraes> a seashore bungalow. 10:33 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #go-nuts 10:35 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:37 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 10:38 -!- miker2 [~miker2@pool-71-175-94-30.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:38 -!- miker2_ [~miker2@pool-71-175-94-30.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:38 -!- miker2_ [~miker2@pool-71-175-94-30.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:41 < jessta> adamhassel: I'm think rob and russ use acme, and ken uses sam 10:41 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:44 < goraes> ken uses sam and sam uses what? 10:44 * goraes hides 10:46 < jessta> sam uses C obviously 10:46 < jessta> and uses ken to compile it 10:47 -!- dreadlorde [dreadlorde@c-68-42-82-10.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:50 -!- fvbommel [~fvbommel_@wlan-244145.nbw.tue.nl] has joined #go-nuts 10:52 -!- mavar [~mavar@81-226-52-85-no179.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:58 -!- Argue [~Argue@112.201.172.5] has joined #go-nuts 10:59 -!- fvbommel [~fvbommel_@wlan-244145.nbw.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:59 -!- miker2 [~miker2@pool-71-175-94-30.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:03 -!- hnry [576c1698@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.108.22.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:04 -!- mavar [~mavar@188.92.169.90] has joined #go-nuts 11:08 -!- nekoh [~nekoh@dslb-088-068-017-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:10 -!- nekoh_ [~nekoh@dslb-088-068-017-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:12 -!- NiteRain [~NiteRain@c-98-254-236-21.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:13 -!- nekoh [~nekoh@dslb-088-068-017-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:14 -!- dreadlorde [dreadlorde@c-68-42-82-10.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:18 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 11:21 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 11:23 -!- wayneeseguin [~wayneeseg@vs9873.blueboxgrid.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:24 -!- wayneeseguin [~wayneeseg@vs9873.blueboxgrid.com] has joined #go-nuts 11:39 -!- meling [~meling@pico.ux.uis.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49 -!- replore [~replore@PPPnf3988.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 11:51 -!- mavar [~mavar@188.92.169.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:56 -!- fossil-njv [~nigel@62.225.38.155] has joined #go-nuts 11:57 -!- replore [~replore@PPPnf3988.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:59 -!- replore [~replore@PPPnf3988.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 12:03 -!- replore [~replore@PPPnf3988.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:06 -!- replore_ [~replore@g1-223-25-153-99.bmobile.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 12:09 -!- mavar [~mavar@81-226-52-85-no179.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:14 -!- alexluya [~alexluya@111.186.5.87] has joined #go-nuts 12:16 < alexluya> hello,any good way to find what package the specific type belongs to?For example,I found some code use "float",want to know it's package 12:17 < exch> alexluya: float used to be a builtin type in Go. But they removed it in favour of just float32 and float64 12:17 < exch> chances are the package you found has not been updated in a while 12:17 < nsf> in Go if you see a lone identifier 12:17 < nsf> it's from the current package 12:18 < nsf> otherwise it will be prefixed by a package name it belongs too 12:18 < exch> Or a builtin type 12:18 < nsf> well, yes 12:18 < nsf> and float doesn't exists anymore, probably the code is out-dated 12:18 < nsf> as exch said 12:18 < nsf> :) 12:21 < alexluya> You mean if a is not a builtin type,and if it belongs to package pkg1,it will be named pkg1_a,right? 12:22 < exch> alexluya: pkg1.a 12:22 < alexluya> thx 12:23 < nsf> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Packages 12:23 < nsf> read the spec, it's not big and readable 12:23 < nsf> explains everything 12:24 < alexluya> ok,just printed it out,I will read it tonight 12:25 < nsf> I don't mean read it all, if you have a question about something take a look at the corresponding section :) 12:27 < alexluya> I know,just don't want to read it on screen 12:36 -!- c00w [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has joined #go-nuts 12:49 -!- BigBlackDog [~BigBlackD@HSI-KBW-109-192-007-188.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:53 < uriel> goraes: could you use the same license as Go for Gorilla? 12:53 -!- marcux [~marco@189.121.104.181] has joined #go-nuts 12:55 -!- alexluya [~alexluya@111.186.5.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56 * uriel wonders where have all the Go-hatting-trolls gone: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/k70os/the_laws_of_reflection_go_language_blog/ 12:58 < Namegduf> uriel: They love reflection, because it's complicated. 12:58 -!- ericvh [~Adium@cpe-72-177-122-77.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:58 < uriel> heheh 12:58 < Namegduf> I think their principle complaint with Go's setup is well represented by YEPHENAS. 12:58 < Namegduf> So they're being quiet otherwise right now. 12:58 < uriel> I'm sure they think Go's reflection is nowhere nearly complicated enough 12:58 < Namegduf> (i.e. it isn't compli-yeah) 12:59 -!- BigBlackDog [~BigBlackD@HSI-KBW-109-192-007-188.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #go-nuts 13:01 < nsf> I don't like that the reflection is called "a form of metaprogramming" 13:01 < nsf> in Go reflection is 100% a runtime feature 13:01 < nsf> and has nothing to do with metaprogramming :) 13:02 < nsf> but it's a nice feature, sure 13:06 < mpl> nsf: it's probably meta in the sense that you manipulate the objects of the language a bit the same way the language does it behind the scenes. 13:10 -!- cr3 [~cr3@64.34.151.178] has joined #go-nuts 13:10 < nsf> well, by metaprogramming I understand "programs writing programs" 13:11 < nsf> reflection on the other hand is about data 13:11 < nsf> compile-time reflection could be a part of metaprogramming facilities though 13:11 < nsf> but.. uhm.. never mind 13:11 < nsf> it's not like it matters to me a lot :D call reflection any way you like :D 13:12 -!- cr3 [~cr3@64.34.151.178] has quit [Client Quit] 13:13 < mpl> I'll call it "too advanced for my needs right now" ;) 13:18 -!- cr3 [~cr3@64.34.151.178] has joined #go-nuts 13:18 < mpl> hehe "We're pretty good at compilers." :) 13:20 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:27 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 13:28 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@141.217.141.205] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- fvbommel [~fvbommel_@86.86.15.250] has joined #go-nuts 13:37 < mpl> there should be IQ, spelling, and grammar tests as entry points to mailing lists registration. 13:48 < goraes> uriel, hm i thought it was apache 13:48 -!- c00w [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:54 < goraes> ewww, go is bsd. this is disgusting. if i knew i'd never get involved. 13:55 < goraes> nah. uriel, ok i can change to bsd. 13:58 -!- meling [~meling@134.81-167-41.customer.lyse.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:58 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:02 -!- c00w [~colin@rpi-wl-1095.dynamic.rpi.edu] has joined #go-nuts 14:02 -!- replore_ [~replore@g1-223-25-153-99.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08 < str1ngs> huh, whats wrong with apache 14:13 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344948.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 14:16 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@200.102.220.181] has joined #go-nuts 14:18 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 14:18 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18 -!- tux21b [~christoph@cpe90-146-162-55.liwest.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:20 -!- shoenig [~seth@rrcs-71-42-216-104.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:23 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 14:28 -!- c00w [~colin@rpi-wl-1095.dynamic.rpi.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:29 -!- FX80 [~MX80@cust151.253.117.74.dsl.g3telecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:31 -!- marcux [~marco@189.121.104.181] has quit [Quit: marcux] 14:32 -!- FX80 [~MX80@cust151.253.117.74.dsl.g3telecom.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:38 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:44 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:45 -!- CoverSli1e [~richard@216.2.249.50] has joined #go-nuts 14:52 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57 < goraes> uriel, please add it to cat-v! 14:57 -!- hnry [50dd2595@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.221.37.149] has joined #go-nuts 14:59 -!- mavar [~mavar@81-226-52-85-no179.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:00 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:00 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:03 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@141.217.141.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344948.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:08 -!- GeertJohan [~geertjoha@s51478c91.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:08 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 15:11 -!- adlan [~adlan@110.159.236.17] has joined #go-nuts 15:12 -!- mavar [~mavar@188.92.169.90] has joined #go-nuts 15:18 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:20 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344948.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 15:20 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344948.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 15:22 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 15:25 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:27 < zozoR> how come no one made a C with a package system like go? 15:28 < nsf> zozoR: it's not that easy now 15:28 < nsf> as it seems 15:29 < nsf> blame preprocessor evil 15:29 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:29 < nsf> there are people who want to push modules into C++ standard 15:29 < nsf> well, no luck at the moment 15:30 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:31 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344948.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 15:32 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344948.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 15:32 < nsf> for C++ it's actually even harder 15:32 < nsf> templates on top of the preprocessor :D 15:33 -!- Bigbear1 [~Cody@S010678cd8e7c81a8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:34 < zozoR> : | 15:34 < zozoR> im just flappergasted at how much they fucked up when creating C : | 15:35 < nsf> C was fucked up afterwards 15:35 < nsf> mostly 15:35 < nsf> at the beginning it was a nice language with clear concepts 15:35 < nsf> then people started to add stuff on top of it 15:35 < nsf> for different reasons 15:35 < zozoR> :'( 15:35 < nsf> and that's what we have now 15:36 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 15:36 < valentin> $ cd $GOROOT; hg log -r 1 15:36 < nsf> but it was necessary 15:36 < nsf> and to some extent C is successful anyway 15:36 < zozoR> true 15:37 < rsesek> I'd say C is wildly successful 15:37 < nsf> yeah 15:37 -!- clr_ [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has joined #go-nuts 15:38 < zozoR> i find it complicated making something equal to type FOO struct in C 15:38 < zozoR> because of prototypes, header files and weird workings of structs D: 15:38 < nsf> uhm? 15:38 < nsf> ah 15:38 < nsf> yes, it's annoying 15:38 < nsf> don't compare it to Go 15:39 < nsf> it has its own culture and its out-dated 15:39 < nsf> but it works 15:39 < nsf> :) 15:39 < zozoR> ^^ 15:39 < nsf> it's* (second one) 15:39 < nsf> try C++ 15:40 < nsf> after C++ using C will be like a blessing 15:40 < nsf> :D 15:40 < nsf> it's very hard to do proper visibility management in C++ 15:44 < rsesek> you can just create a private Impl class and have that be the only member variable of your public class. that's how WebKit manages to hide implementation 15:44 < kevlar_work> C is still the language that I know best 15:44 < kevlar_work> I programmed it for 6 years and taught it for 4 15:44 < nsf> rsesek: pimpl and everythink alike are just ugly hacks 15:44 < nsf> everything* 15:44 < kevlar_work> but I have gone almost cold turkey in favor of Go 15:44 < rsesek> it's tedious, but it works 15:44 < nsf> yes, it works :\ 15:45 < kevlar_work> because, while I don't have all of the control I had in C, I can write so much more quickly and be so much more productive. 15:45 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344948.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 15:45 < nsf> I still miss preprocessor a bit 15:46 < kevlar_work> I vastly prefer C to C++ for the same reason as I like Go, though, in that what you see on the page is what's happening, because you don't have silly things like polymorphism or operator overloading. 15:46 < nsf> yeah 15:46 < nsf> reading C++ is hard 15:47 < rsesek> if you limit yourself to the sane parts of C++ (e.g. follow the Google C++ style guide), it's really not that bad 15:47 < zozoR> but does C even have visability? isnt it all just public 15:47 < nsf> zozoR: of course 15:47 < nsf> it has translation unit private parts 15:47 < nsf> they are defined with static 15:47 < rsesek> you have private linkage in C 15:47 < nsf> yeah, that's what I mean 15:49 < rsesek> random question: is there an idiomatic way in go to test if some object is in a slice? something like python's |3 in [4, 5, 6]|? 15:49 < kevlar_work> wha? 15:49 < zozoR> for loop :D 15:49 < zozoR> if 3 in [1,2,3,4,5]: do stuff 15:49 < rsesek> :( 15:49 < nsf> no, there is no such thing 15:49 < zozoR> is acceptable in go :D 15:49 < kevlar_work> oh, *in* a slice, I read that "is" a slice 15:49 < kevlar_work> lol 15:52 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-usrckxnhljjgrhcu] has joined #go-nuts 15:54 < cr3> rsesek: I once followed an Embedded C++ standard or guidelines, I thought that was pretty sane 15:56 < rsesek> cr3: I'd imagine it's pretty similar to the google guide. no RTTI, limited operator overloading, no exceptions, composition over multiple inheritance 15:59 -!- mavar [~mavar@188.92.169.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00 -!- TimKack [~tkack@213.208.236.186] has quit [Quit: TimKack] 16:00 < cr3> rsesek: no templates too, which might be particularly relevant for embedded systems with little memory footprint 16:00 < rsesek> oh wow. no, we like our templates :p 16:00 < cr3> don't know where google stands relating to templates 16:01 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-121-123.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:01 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-121-123.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Changing host] 16:01 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 16:01 < cr3> rsesek: agreed, it's a pretty powerful way to reuse code albeit at the cost of some sanity :) 16:01 < rsesek> cr3: we have scoped_ptr<T> to scope an object's lifetime to an enclosing scope, which is one of my favorite parts about C++ 16:02 < rsesek> go's defer is pretty nice, though 16:02 -!- wallerdev [~wallerdev@72.44.102.30] has joined #go-nuts 16:03 < cr3> I'm a big fan of the defer pattern, but haven't used it in go yet, only in twisted python 16:03 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:03 -!- ajray_ [~ajray@li175-41.members.linode.com] has left #go-nuts [] 16:05 -!- tux21b [~christoph@cpe90-146-162-55.liwest.at] has joined #go-nuts 16:10 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-usrckxnhljjgrhcu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:14 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-ecnpqdzqjcwazmvc] has joined #go-nuts 16:15 -!- mavar [~mavar@81-226-52-85-no179.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:18 -!- Peet__ [~Peet__@blk-222-42-163.eastlink.ca] has joined #go-nuts 16:18 -!- Peet__ [~Peet__@blk-222-42-163.eastlink.ca] has quit [Changing host] 16:18 -!- Peet__ [~Peet__@unaffiliated/peet--/x-2416233] has joined #go-nuts 16:21 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@cpc2-gill2-0-0-cust701.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:23 -!- rcrowley [~rcrowley@c-71-202-44-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:27 < zozoR> you cant send value types on a channel, if it has unexported fields? 16:28 < zozoR> only zeh pointer 16:28 < zozoR> ? 16:29 < erus`> i have to look for a new job: does anyone need a code monkey? 16:30 -!- mavar [~mavar@81-226-52-85-no179.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31 < jessta> zozoR: you can't copy a value type with unexported fields 16:32 < jessta> becuase you can't access those fields to copy their content 16:33 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:36 < zozoR> ^^ 16:38 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:39 < zozoR> if a channel is closed and not empty, what does ok become in x, ok = <-ch 16:39 < valentin> erus` where do you live ? 16:39 < zozoR> : | 16:40 < erus`> valentin: i can move anywhere 16:40 < erus`> the world is my oyster 16:40 < valentin> Paris ? 16:40 < erus`> ah not too far 16:40 < erus`> :) 16:40 < valentin> hehe 16:40 < erus`> im in england at the moment 16:41 -!- thrashr888 [~thrashr88@64.125.143.6] has joined #go-nuts 16:41 -!- yogib [~yogib@131.234.59.64] has quit [Quit: yogib] 16:42 -!- smw [~stephen@unaffiliated/smw] has joined #go-nuts 16:43 < mpl> erus`: beware: http://www.o-chateau.com/stuff-parisians-like/expats.html I just happened to have a good laugh reading this an hour ago :) 16:45 < erus`> im in demand? :) 16:45 -!- hsoj [~josh@mouse.shaken.lushie.org] has joined #go-nuts 16:46 -!- Argue [~Argue@112.201.172.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:46 < mpl> erus`: apparently. if you can stand being exhibited by arrogant parisians :) 16:47 < erus`> sounds like a win / win to me 16:47 < mpl> heh, to each his own. go for it then ;) 16:47 * mpl managed to escape from Paris almost 2 years ago :) 16:50 -!- noam [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:50 -!- hsoj [~josh@mouse.shaken.lushie.org] has quit [Quit: fucking screen] 16:51 -!- noam [~noam@87.69.42.61.cable.012.net.il] has joined #go-nuts 16:51 < valentin> (in fact we're not exactly in Paris :) 16:51 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52 -!- hsoj [~josh@mouse.shaken.lushie.org] has joined #go-nuts 16:52 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@2.82.65.152] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 16:53 -!- Bigbear11 [~Cody@S010678cd8e7c81a8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:54 -!- tjyang_ [~tjyang@c-67-175-235-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:54 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:55 -!- remy_o [~babar@archlinux/developer/remy-o] has joined #go-nuts 16:55 -!- Bigbear1 [~Cody@S010678cd8e7c81a8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57 -!- chowmeined [~chow@unaffiliated/chowmeined] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:57 -!- tjyang__ [~tjyang@c-67-175-235-146.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58 < jessta> zozoR: you'll get a valid value 16:58 -!- pyrhho [~pyrhho@host-92-27-75-48.static.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: pyrhho] 16:58 < jessta> and ok will be false 16:59 < jessta> ok will only be true once the channel is drained 17:01 < zozoR> wont it be false when its drained? :s 17:01 < zozoR> getting the correct value, and ok=false makes no sense in my head 17:06 < dlowe> rename it to still_open 17:07 -!- rcrowley 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#go-nuts 19:39 -!- thrashr888 [~thrashr88@64.125.143.6] has quit [Quit: thrashr888] 19:47 * rsesek wishes he could do slice[1:-1] instead of slice[1:len(slice)-1] 19:47 < goraes> yeah 19:47 < goraes> slice[-1] too 19:47 < rsesek> yeah 19:47 < rm445> doesn't slice[:] do the first one? 19:48 < goraes> no that gets the whole slice 19:48 < rm445> oh yeah sorry 19:48 -!- sebastianskejoe [~sebastian@56344948.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:48 -!- tvw [~tv@e176005109.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49 < rm445> anyway the go authors have a defined stance on the matter: they think negative indices are likely to be a logic error and hence giving them working semantics is wrong. 19:49 < goraes> bummer. 19:50 < rsesek> I can see why, but as a high value in a range, I think it makes sense. but I understand just as a regular index, otherwise slice[strings.Index(s, sep)] would do the unexpected 19:52 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 19:52 < goraes> unexpected if you don't know the semantic. 19:53 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@84-93-217-24.plus.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:53 < goraes> works pretty well in python. 19:53 < rsesek> true 19:53 < rsesek> yeah. I've never hit that issue in python :p 19:58 -!- alehorst [~alehorst@177.16.123.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:01 < NfNitLoop> Is there a way to import things so that they're accessible without a namespace/package prefix? 20:01 < qeed> yeah use . 20:01 < rsesek> import . "package" http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Import_declarations 20:02 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:02 < NfNitLoop> If so, you could just make a sub(slice, start, end) that does that. Thouugh.. 20:02 < NfNitLoop> I guess you can't just do a generic one for all slices, can you? >.< 20:03 < rsesek> NfNitLoop: why not []interface{} 20:03 < remy_o> that's not "all slices" 20:03 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:04 -!- c00w [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:04 < NfNitLoop> because then you'd have to return []interface{} and you probably want something a bit more useful. 20:04 < rsesek> ah hm 20:04 -!- kergoth [~kergoth@ip24-251-167-38.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:04 < NfNitLoop> remy_o: isn't it? 20:05 < remy_o> huh? 20:05 -!- hnry [50dd2595@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.221.37.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05 < rsesek> which slices would it not cover? 20:09 < remy_o> all slices 20:10 < remy_o> except []interface{} 20:11 -!- thrashr888 [~thrashr88@64.125.143.6] has joined #go-nuts 20:12 < NfNitLoop> oooh, yeah. I always forget that. >.< 20:13 < NfNitLoop> Go needs generics already. :p 20:14 -!- dreadlorde [dreadlorde@c-68-42-82-10.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:16 < Ginto8> NfNitLoop, I find that go is fine without them, but I have no doubt it would be even better with them :P 20:16 < dlowe> I prefer interfaces. 20:17 < Ginto8> I think that gotgo-ish templates integrated into standard go would be fantastic 20:19 < Ginto8> and like you could specify template type parameters for packages in the import statements 20:19 -!- clr_ [~colin@2620:0:2820:a9:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has joined #go-nuts 20:20 -!- squeese [~squeese@cm-84.209.17.156.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 20:25 < kevlar_work> Ginto8, in my (still unpublished...) generics proposal, I specifically *don't* want parameterized imports. 20:25 < Ginto8> oh? 20:25 < kevlar_work> part of the nicety of Go is that you don't have to specify types when the compiler knows them already 20:25 < Ginto8> hmm good point 20:26 < kevlar_work> and also, I really don't want to look at a file and see the same package imported multiple times 20:26 < Ginto8> how complex is your proposal? 20:26 < kevlar_work> really simple. 20:26 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26 < kevlar_work> It adds a new keyword "generic" that can be used in one place: "type a generic" 20:27 < kevlar_work> then you can have functions with multiple a-type arguments and/or returns, and the compiler will specialize the function for you 20:27 < Ginto8> hmm 20:28 < Ginto8> but you should be able to restrict a to a point 20:28 < kevlar_work> as long as the code would compile with s/a/yourtype/ I don't see why you would. 20:29 < Ginto8> but that's the issue 20:29 < Ginto8> In C++, errors from invalid template types are absolutely horrific 20:29 -!- meling [~meling@134.81-167-41.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29 -!- meling [~meling@134.81-167-41.customer.lyse.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:30 < kevlar_work> my proposal is for generics to be a part of compilation, not a part of preprocessing 20:30 < Ginto8> hmm 20:31 < kevlar_work> so, for instance, an error might be "type Blah invalid for a (restriction: Blah + Blah invalid)" or something 20:31 < Ginto8> ahh 20:32 < kevlar_work> the idea being that the compiler keeps track of how the generic is used (math, indexed, methods called, etc) and checks those first when specializing 20:32 < Ginto8> hmm 20:32 -!- clr_ [~colin@2620:0:2820:a9:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:32 < f2f> kevlar, kind of like limbo's adt's? 20:33 < kevlar_work> no idea. 20:33 < kevlar_work> in my mind, it's a compiler-driven version of templates. 20:33 < f2f> sounds similar, but i'm not sure :) 20:34 < kevlar_work> I haven't published it yet because I haven't completely thought through the implications of derived generic types (e.g. type a generic; type b []a) or interfaces (type a generic; interface{Func(a) a}) 20:34 < f2f> i think what you describe is a good way to have generics 20:34 < Ginto8> kergoth, honestly it sounds briliant 20:35 < Ginto8> kevlar_work, * 20:35 < Ginto8> damn autocomplete 20:36 < kevlar_work> another thing that differentiates it from some other generics proposals we've discussed on IRC is that it's compile-time instead of run-time, so it makes your compile longer but shouldn't impact runtime performance 20:36 < f2f> it needs a root concrete type to ensure that the generic types are resolvable 20:37 < kevlar_work> hmm? 20:37 < f2f> but you could still have a generic-typed library 20:37 < |Craig|> kevlar_work: that would require compiling imported packages while compiling parent packages, which would be a major change. It would increase memory needed to compile, and change the entire compiling process right? 20:37 < Ginto8> root concrete type? 20:38 < f2f> ugh 20:39 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-ecnpqdzqjcwazmvc] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:39 < f2f> nevermind, my terminology is screwed :) 20:39 < zozoR> do you know which solutions the go team is looking into at the moment? 20:41 < Ginto8> the thing is, to make templates compile-based rather than preprocessing-based, they probably need an intermediary format 20:41 < f2f> kevlar_work: do you compile different versions of your generic method for the different types it's called with? 20:41 < kevlar_work> |Craig|, no, it would require exporting something akin to an AST and the list of requirements for each generic type in a library's object file 20:41 < kevlar_work> f2f, yes. 20:41 < Ginto8> a sort of special object file format for templates 20:42 < kevlar_work> if I were doing it (IANAcompilerdev) I would just embed the AST for the function into the object file. 20:42 < kevlar_work> There are certainly better ways to do it though. 20:43 < kevlar_work> with the upcoming inlining and escape analysis work, I think you really have to go with compiled specializations if you don't want to completely forfeit all of those benefits (like you would if you had run-time generic functions) 20:44 < |Craig|> kevlar_work: that or preprocessing, which is a mess 20:45 -!- clr_ [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has joined #go-nuts 20:46 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@84-93-217-24.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:47 < kevlar_work> blech, preprocessor-- 20:47 < kevlar_work> I've lost too many fights with the C preprocessor to ever suggest such a thing in a language that currently exists without one. 20:48 < |Craig|> I agree, a preprocessor is more of a hack than a feature 20:48 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49 < exch> It's necessity signals a distinct failure in the language itself :p 20:49 * exch hides 20:49 < Ginto8> exch, I don't think you'll find people here strongly disagree with that 20:50 < kevlar_work> hop on over to ##c++ and say that, though, and you might find yourself in a spot of trouble ;-). 20:50 < Ginto8> C was great for when it was made 20:51 < kevlar_work> totally 20:51 < Ginto8> but the preprocessor was a hack 20:51 < Ginto8> and it just stayed around... 20:51 < kevlar_work> C dominated my programming life for ~10 years and I taught it for 4, but I dropped it like a hot potato when I found Go. 20:51 < Ginto8> I used C++ 20:52 < exch> I still enjoy C now and again 20:52 < kevlar_work> I learned Java, wised up and learned C++, wised up and learned C and only touched C++ a few times after that. 20:52 < kevlar_work> C is still a great language. 20:52 < exch> I came from 10 years of intensive C# use when I ran into Go. Go also got me more into C 20:53 < kevlar_work> and I still think every programmer (especially EE/CmpE) should be required to get to a certain proficiency in C 20:53 < Ginto8> yes 20:53 < kevlar_work> because it makes you understand what is going on under the hood. 20:53 < Ginto8> yesyesyes 20:53 < Ginto8> but C's grammar was complex, C++'s just became a mess 20:54 < f2f> i don't think the two are comparable :) 20:54 < kevlar_work> I love how simple and unambiguous Go's grammer is 20:54 < Ginto8> kevlar_work, yes :D 20:54 < kevlar_work> the fact that it has its own grammar parser is brilliant, but even without that it'd be really simple to use regex to do refactors for you 20:55 < exch> I am following a CS course 'From NAND to Tetris' to /really/ understand what goes on under the hood. Most of it is old news, but it has demystified some aspects which were always a bit beyond me in the past 20:55 -!- itrekkie [86868b4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.134.139.76] has joined #go-nuts 20:55 < exch> Go does have ambiguity unfortunately. Notably a function call and type cast are identical 20:55 < Ginto8> but 20:55 < kevlar_work> I remember when I made my first processor in VHDL and then made my own assembler for it 20:56 < kevlar_work> demystified *so much* lol 20:56 < Ginto8> you can't give a function and a type the same name, which is good 20:56 < exch> kevlar_work: yea that's basically what this course is about. You design a virtual computer from NAND gates up. design asm for it. write an assembler. design a high level language. write a rudimentary OS, VM and some games 20:56 < kevlar_work> exch, what does the AST do for typecasts? 20:56 < exch> I love it 20:56 < |Craig|> kevlar_work: yes, implementing a processor is a great project, I'm glad I did that 20:57 < exch> kevlar_work: No idea I haven't looked 20:57 -!- aat_ [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:58 < kevlar_work> the only gate-level stuff I've done is a basic register and ALU. That was crazy, and made me really appreciate the people who keep our die sizes down, lol 20:58 < exch> Ginto8: you can name a function uint(). 20:58 < exch> Go doesnt really have any reserved words as such 20:58 < Ginto8> o.o 20:58 < ww> exch: i recommend reading feynman's lectures on computation 20:58 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:58 < exch> of course,if you use uint as a type anywhere, the compiler will throw a fit 20:58 -!- aat_ [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59 < kevlar_work> func(int, a string) <-- does not do what you might at first expect, lol 20:59 < ww> covers a lot of that ground... and more... in style... 20:59 < exch> ww: cool. I'll look it up 20:59 < exch> I learn best by just doing though. 21:00 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00 < exch> This course comes with harware simulation software and a custom HDL in which you can just go ahead and build/test stuff 21:00 < kevlar_work> (I wish my students realized that. I mean, seriously, in a programming class, how do you expect to pass without doing the homework?) 21:00 < mpl> so anyone here good with mysql? I've made a little experiment where I simply loop over mysql.DialTCP until it errors out with "#2013 Lost connection to MySQL server during query", and yet I don't see any trace of that in the mysql error log? any idea? 21:00 < itrekkie> hi all--is there any way to execute generated code? e.g., in c casting and calling a function from memory? 21:01 -!- tdnrad [~darndt@terminal.research.cs.dal.ca] has joined #go-nuts 21:01 < ww> does mysql still truncate VARCHAR(X) columns silently? 21:01 < mpl> no idea. (using philio's gomysql btw). 21:02 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:02 < f2f> itrekkie: no 21:02 < ww> e.g. CREATE TABLE foo (bar VARCHAR(2)); INSERT INTO foo VALUES('abc123'); SELECT * FROM foo; 21:03 < ww> --> 'ab' ... and no error 21:03 * ww was apalled that anyone would use a database that does that 21:03 < mpl> ah, interesting. but not my problem right now ;) 21:03 < itrekkie> so any sort of jit is impossible in go? :( 21:03 -!- zeebo [~zeebo@ip72-218-115-129.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:04 < f2f> go is a compiled language 21:04 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 21:04 < itrekkie> yes, but runtime code generation and execution is useful if you're implementing a runtime for another language 21:05 < |Craig|> if you generate machine code, you can call it via CGO and a bit of c I suppose 21:05 -!- clr_ [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:07 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 21:07 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:08 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Client Quit] 21:09 < zozoR> meh, why do we need generics when we have interface{} 21:09 < f2f> interface is a wee bit too generic? 21:10 < f2f> we need less generic generics ;) 21:10 < Ginto8> because sometimes you want an array of one single type 21:10 < |Craig|> zozoR: safety, clarity and performanc 21:10 < Ginto8> but you want the type to be generic 21:12 < zozoR> well since we cant have that, interface{} is good enough '' 21:12 < Ginto8> we CAN have it 21:12 < Ginto8> we DON'T have it 21:12 < nsf> generics rant again 21:12 < nsf> we won't have generics, live with it 21:13 < nsf> :) 21:13 -!- remy_o [~babar@archlinux/developer/remy-o] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14 < f2f> i'm living with it just fine. 21:14 < Ginto8> we'd just prefer not to have to live with it 21:14 < f2f> the instances where i have found myself thinking 'this should be a generic function' are very few. especially since append() appeared and is generic. 21:14 -!- miker2 [~miker2@pool-71-175-94-30.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:15 < nsf> besides everyone will learn writing binary searches and all kinds of sorts :D 21:15 < f2f> the formal language theory community will dismiss append() as a hack :) 21:16 < f2f> hey, new idea: union interfaces! 21:16 < f2f> problem solved! 21:16 < nsf> f2f: we've seen that 21:16 < nsf> we've heard that 21:16 < f2f> oh, well, then. 21:16 -!- jbooth1 [~jay@209.249.216.2] has joined #go-nuts 21:16 < Ginto8> union interfaces? 21:16 < f2f> not union types, but union interfaces 21:16 < nsf> unions are pain in the ass with GC, or otherwise they are safe and actually they are interface{} 21:17 < f2f> you cast away the generality of an interface 21:17 < nsf> :D 21:17 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 21:17 < f2f> and say my []interface{} can only be of the T interface type 21:17 < Ginto8> huh? 21:17 < f2f> et viola ;) 21:17 < Ginto8> I'm still confused 21:17 < f2f> []os.Error 21:18 < qeed> what i want most is something less than package scope heh 21:19 < qeed> as it stands right now i have to make all these dirs to split up the program 21:21 < |Craig|> qeed: you have something less than package scope, function scope (oh, and sub packages if you want to count that) 21:21 < qeed> i want file scope in addition to it 21:22 < f2f> do you absolutely need to make separate dirs? 21:22 < qeed> goinstall forces me to 21:22 < f2f> well, screw goinstall, go rogue :) 21:23 < f2f> or, as they say in france, go rouge ;) 21:25 < jlaffaye> we say that? 21:25 < f2f> only when creating a goroutine to run a function called "rouge()" 21:26 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26 < mpl> f2f: but also, "rouge sur blanc, tout fout le camp!" 21:26 -!- goraes [~goraes@189.103.177.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@nat/google/x-wkxjjpkjlkeohjeh] has joined #go-nuts 21:29 < jlaffaye> mpl: :) 21:29 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:32 < itrekkie> append has no overhead if a slice has sufficient capacity, correct? 21:32 < f2f> yes 21:33 < f2f> well, it won't allocate a new one, but you still incur the overhead of the function call and data copy 21:34 < exch> The data copy has to occur whether you use append or not. So that ca technically be ignored in this case 21:34 < itrekkie> I'm implementing a stack with a slice of ints, just appending and popping, trying to decide if it's best to use append, or track stack size manually 21:34 < exch> That leaves the function call, which might be eliminated when we have inlining 21:35 < Ginto8> itrekkie, append, but you can also keep track of stack size 21:35 < exch> itrekkie: I found the fastest stack implementation is to pre-allocate the stack with a fixed size and just use an integer index to track where you are at 21:35 < itrekkie> I'm really looking forward to inlining :) 21:36 < itrekkie> thanks guys, I'll try pre-allocating the stack and keeping track of the index 21:36 < exch> me too 21:38 < itrekkie> excellent, that approach to the stack helped my performance a bit, thanks 21:40 < itrekkie> is anyone aware of any news on inlining? I saw some patches a while back, but I don't know if they were taken or not? 21:42 < f2f> is this code really that performance-critical? :) 21:42 < itrekkie> I ask, because I'm having a hard time getting a basic virtual machine's performance off the ground, and I think inlining might help a bit 21:42 < f2f> perhaps you can profile the code and see exactly where the time is spent 21:43 < f2f> identify hotspots if you will 21:43 < f2f> get it? VM? Hotspot? :) 21:43 < itrekkie> basic profiling with 6prof shows 20% of the time is spent in stack pushing/popping, and I'm sure some of that time is function call overhead 21:43 < itrekkie> I could manually inline, but that's super ugly 21:44 < f2f> what do your push/pop functions look like? 21:45 < itrekkie> pretty simple, just adjusting an index, and array access 21:45 < itrekkie> http://pastie.org/2499554 machine.popInt() and machine.pushInt() 21:45 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:46 < itrekkie> apparently only 70% of the time is within the machine.Execute(), which is troublesome, I think 21:47 -!- Taos [~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50 < jlaffaye> there is no Do() methods in http with DefaultClient? 21:50 < f2f> wait, those should be cumulative, since all the push/pop is called from inside Execute 21:51 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 21:52 < itrekkie> I don't follow, am I reading the profiling results wrong? http://pastie.org/2499589 21:56 < f2f> you can get a cumulative printout too 21:57 < f2f> and a callgraph 21:57 < f2f> just see the gopprof script 21:57 -!- cr3 [~cr3@64.34.151.178] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58 < f2f> one thing to do -- remove that allocation at the top of for true { 22:00 < itrekkie> I'm not seeing an allocation, do you mean "instr := function.Instructions[ip]"? 22:00 < f2f> yes 22:01 < f2f> oops, that's gone now 22:03 < itrekkie> I thought that was just assigning a variable a pointer, not particularly expensive? 22:05 < exch> it also initializes a new 'instr' 22:05 < f2f> you're creating a new variable on the heap every time 22:06 < exch> put a 'var instr T' outside the loop and then just 'instr = ...' inside it 22:06 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:07 -!- franciscosouza [~francisco@187.105.26.180] has joined #go-nuts 22:10 < itrekkie> hm, that change actually slows it down a bit 22:10 -!- tav [~tav@host-2-96-36-70.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:10 < f2f> in total run time? 22:11 < itrekkie> yea 22:11 -!- lazy1 [~miki@cpe-75-84-253-172.socal.res.rr.com] has left #go-nuts ["Ex-Chat"] 22:12 < f2f> what's a bit? is it above the wallclock noise? 22:12 < f2f> is it average of 10 runs? 22:16 < itrekkie> yes, that change seems about 10% slower 22:16 -!- franciscosouza [~francisco@187.105.26.180] has quit [Quit: franciscosouza] 22:17 -!- icebrain [~icebrain@co3-84-90-63-109.netvisao.pt] has joined #go-nuts 22:17 < f2f> i don't have your code for reference anymore 22:17 < icebrain> hi! what would you recommend reading as good, idiomatic Go code? 22:17 < f2f> icebrain: the standard libraries 22:18 < icebrain> f2f: thanks. Should've thought of that:| 22:18 < itrekkie> sorry, I refreshed the code, should be good now 22:18 -!- jmil [~jmil@2001:468:1802:e148:c9a6:5152:e4c:a8ca] has quit [Quit: jmil] 22:19 < f2f> i still see := on line 73 22:20 -!- erus` [~chatzilla@cpc2-gill2-0-0-cust701.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22 < itrekkie> updated :) 22:23 < f2f> gtg. itrekkie, FWIW, i don't think there's much wrong with this code. i don't know what you're comparing it to, but, if anything, your push and pop will become slower once you add all the necessary checks for underflow and array overflow. 22:24 < itrekkie> it looks like there's some bound checks getting thrown in, are all slice access bound checked? 22:24 -!- franciscosouza [~francisco@187.105.26.180] has joined #go-nuts 22:24 < kevlar_work> itrekkie, can you link again? 22:24 < itrekkie> http://pastie.org/2499554 22:25 < itrekkie> I remember there being a hidden flag for disabling bound-checks, anyone remember it? 22:26 < f2f> itrekkie: yes, they are bound-checked, but you'll need to protect against panics because that's the default for boundary violations 22:26 -!- tav_ [~tav@host-2-96-36-70.as13285.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:26 < kevlar_work> itrekkie, I recommend changing New to be, basically, return &Machine{ program: program,\n stack: ... } 22:27 < itrekkie> is that more idiomatic? Machine.New() shouldn't be taking a ton of time though 22:27 < kevlar_work> yes, it's just more idiomatic 22:27 < f2f> just publish a gopprof call graph :) 22:28 < f2f> gopprof --web prog profile 22:28 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@h-170-226.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:29 -!- tav [~tav@host-2-96-36-70.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:29 < kevlar_work> also, for retrieveframe, I would do: fp--; frame := franes[fp]; return frame.fun, f.ip; and ditch the named return values. 22:29 -!- jbooth1 [~jay@209.249.216.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30 -!- icebrain [~icebrain@co3-84-90-63-109.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30 < kevlar_work> (also just from an idiomatic point of view) 22:31 < itrekkie> alrighty, always looking to write more idiomatic go :) 22:31 < f2f> from an idiomatic point of view you shouldn't call a function xInt() if it operates on int64 22:32 < f2f> but i let it slide because we're looking at the performance issue, if it existws 22:32 < f2f> s/tws/ts/ 22:32 -!- franciscosouza [~francisco@187.105.26.180] has quit [Quit: franciscosouza] 22:33 < kevlar_work> well, for a machine simulator, "int" as opposed to "byte" or "word" or "pointer" is fine 22:34 -!- justicefries [u2891@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iishasbyhiglttcl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34 -!- proppy [u1692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-golmestoutqimoer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34 -!- Kai`_ [u327@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdophowcrlysbgkh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34 -!- antonkovalyov [u1783@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mpatilvwqdzwqbqd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34 -!- heatxsink [u956@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aljqcaymiryciblx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34 -!- itsPhilip [u2979@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pmyflnzdanephwlj] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34 -!- Crnobog|Work [u1041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jxzbsnffyctnbokg] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 22:34 -!- aat [~aat@rrcs-184-75-54-130.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:34 < itrekkie> I can't remember why I'm working with int64 anyway, so... 22:34 < kevlar_work> so, now that I've looked at the code a bit, what's the performance issue you are seeing? 22:35 < kevlar_work> or are you just trying to optimize? 22:35 < itrekkie> I'm just trying to optimize it a bit, yea 22:35 < kevlar_work> if you're seeing performance change drastically from subtle changes that shouldn't cause anything, I suspect you're running afoul of the stack segmentation 22:35 < itrekkie> (I'm apparently not smart enough to figure out how to convert a svg to a png to upload to imgur) 22:36 < kevlar_work> but the code you have there doesn't have any obvious bottlenecks 22:36 < kevlar_work> open in inkscape, export as bitmap, done ;-) 22:36 < kevlar_work> convert may be able to do svg now, though. 22:36 < kevlar_work> (imagemagick) 22:36 < f2f> itrekkie: http://www.fileformat.info/convert/image/svg2raster.htm 22:37 < kevlar_work> also, I suggest using gist these days, rather than pastie. I often go back through my old gists to find examples and the version control behind it is shiny. 22:38 < itrekkie> hm, that tool cuts off a huge portion of the svg 22:38 < kevlar_work> itrekkie, you are also putting things in what I suspect are too many packages... 22:38 -!- icebrain [~icebrain@co3-84-90-63-109.netvisao.pt] has joined #go-nuts 22:38 < kevlar_work> I tried to do that for encapsulation reasons when I just started out with Go, and have since gone back. 22:40 < itrekkie> there we go :) http://imgur.com/Gy3Aj 22:42 < itrekkie> (this all started with me thinking inlining would help with popInt and pushInt) 22:44 -!- Kai`_ [u327@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzumpnqtezcxhmrh] has joined #go-nuts 22:44 < itrekkie> I do have quite a few different packages though, so maybe that's it 22:45 < itrekkie> every instruction executed is also a pointer indirection (I think), whereas my C version isn't 22:46 -!- clr_ [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has joined #go-nuts 22:46 < kevlar_work> inlining is coming soon, what version of go are you running? 22:47 < kevlar_work> and wow, based on that image, I suspect you're about as optimized as you can get 22:48 < kevlar_work> but you might want to list vm.execute to see where it's spending a lot of time 22:48 -!- gobeginner [~nwood@cpc2-lee23-0-0-cust152.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:48 < kevlar_work> http://blog.golang.org/2011/06/profiling-go-programs.html 22:49 < kevlar_work> (that explains how to read the output of the pprof list command) 22:51 < itrekkie> great, thanks, I'll give that a read 22:54 < kevlar_work> itrekkie, you can actually improve the speed of your math operations by doing something like stack[0] = stack[0] + stack[1]; sp--; (or whatever the proper ordering would be) 22:54 < kevlar_work> which is actually more along the lines of what a processor actually does. 22:54 -!- heatxsink [u956@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ikgcgikklvtccebh] has joined #go-nuts 22:55 < kevlar_work> I guess it would be stack[sp-1], sp = stack[sp] + stack[sp-1], sp - 1; maybe? 22:55 < kevlar_work> *shrug* 22:55 < kevlar_work> that would kill the function calls. 22:56 -!- Crnobog|Work [u1041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ajdvjuveeujkhssh] has joined #go-nuts 22:57 < itrekkie> that's worth a try, thanks :D 22:57 < exch> register based VMs are supposedly faster than stack Vm's. I' currently putting that to the test. Though I have to say I never wrote a register VM before, so lack of skill may bias the results 22:57 < itrekkie> also, disabling the bounds checking is -B, seems to help a bit 22:57 < kevlar_work> yeah, don't bother with that though 22:57 < exch> My stack VMs generally spend most of their time executing stack shuffling instructions 22:58 < exch> For any meaningful program that is 22:58 < kevlar_work> what would be really fun would be to emulate a pipelined processor using goroutines >:-) 22:58 < kevlar_work> with branch prediction and all that fun stuff. 22:59 < kevlar_work> (probably would be slower than a straightline vm, but that's not the point, it would be fun) 23:00 < exch> indeed. People tend to forget about the importancce of fun 23:00 -!- nekoh [~nekoh@dslb-088-068-017-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: nekoh] 23:00 < exch> That is mostly why I wrote so many stack VMs. They all turned out to be useless for anything serious, but it was just plain good fun 23:01 -!- miker2 [~miker2@pool-71-175-94-30.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:01 < kevlar_work> I'm currently, in my idle moments, working on a simulation involving self-modifying programs trying to evolve in a combative environment 23:01 < kevlar_work> it should be super fun. 23:01 < kevlar_work> mostly because I like writing programs whose results I don't know going into it. 23:03 < kevlar_work> If I get really adventurous, I want to make it so you can submit a program via appengine or something to compete against other ones. 23:04 < exch> that sounds ambitious 23:05 < itrekkie> hm, this isn't quite working for me: "machine.stack[machine.sp-1], machine.sp = machine.stack[machine.sp] + machine.stack[machine.sp-1], machine.sp-1" 23:05 < itrekkie> stack access is way easier than messing with arrays ;) 23:06 -!- proppy [u1692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndqooeshzfqfqiiv] has joined #go-nuts 23:08 -!- miker2 [~miker2@pool-71-175-94-30.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:13 < itrekkie> yay, manually inlining helps a little bit :) 23:14 -!- clr_ [~colin@2620:0:2820:2208:224:d7ff:fe3e:71b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15 < kevlar_work> exch, they're "programs" in that they have a limited (16 instruction) instruction set 23:16 < exch> You could do a lot with 16 well chosen instructions :) 23:16 < kevlar_work> a full instruction is 1 byte, with the high-order nibble being the opcode and the low-order nibble being the argument (or two) 23:16 < kevlar_work> indeed, lol 23:19 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:20 -!- vmil86 [~vmil86@88.118.38.213] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22 < itrekkie> alrighty, 99% of time spent in the Execute function, and I think that's about as far as I can go 23:23 < itrekkie> it would be nice if go had jump to labels :D 23:26 -!- justicefries [u2891@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xumwnihzxdmbybxm] has joined #go-nuts 23:26 < itrekkie> okay, let me rephrase that, it would be nice if I could get the address of labels 23:28 -!- itsPhilip [u2979@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhxvsbuzsrxryhby] has joined #go-nuts 23:31 < |Craig|> itrekkie: go has goto 23:34 < itrekkie> I know, my mistake, I'd like to goto the absolute address of a label, e.g., gcc &&label 23:35 -!- clr_ [~colin@virginia-155.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #go-nuts 23:38 -!- antonkovalyov [u1783@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vsibuufpwpsvwdjs] has joined #go-nuts 23:39 -!- itrekkie [86868b4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.134.139.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:39 < KirkMcDonald> Computed goto 23:39 < KirkMcDonald> (Is what that feature is called.) 23:44 -!- tux21b [~christoph@cpe90-146-162-55.liwest.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49 -!- c00w [~colin@virginia-155.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:57 -!- franciscosouza [~francisco@187.105.26.180] has joined #go-nuts --- Log closed Thu Sep 08 00:00:24 2011