--- Log opened Sun Jan 10 00:00:05 2010 --- Day changed Sun Jan 10 2010 00:00 -!- ikke [n=ikke@unaffiliated/ikkebr] has quit [] 00:00 -!- tomestla [n=tom@87.100.115.249] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:02 -!- rog_ [n=rog@89.241.197.228] has joined #go-nuts 00:03 -!- |hugues23| [n=kvirc@158.50.204.20] has joined #go-nuts 00:03 -!- hugues23 [n=kvirc@vol75-8-82-233-237-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06 -!- DerHorst_ [n=Horst@e176123020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 00:08 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5ad5026c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:09 -!- ccahoon [n=ccahoon@resnet-234-205.resnet.UMBC.EDU] has quit [] 00:14 -!- napsy [n=luka@88.200.96.14] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:15 -!- mnky [n=mcfyang@pool-151-202-75-218.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:17 -!- mnky [n=mcfyang@pool-151-202-75-218.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:20 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5ad5026c.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:22 -!- DerHorst [n=Horst@e176117137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:25 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 00:26 -!- Venom_X [n=pjacobs@cpe-67-9-131-167.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:28 -!- roKB [n=quassel@124.124.84.65] has quit ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."] 00:28 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@c-76-116-179-93.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:29 -!- General13372 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:33 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [] 00:34 -!- Venom_X [n=pjacobs@cpe-67-9-131-167.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:40 -!- Demp_ [n=Demp@bzq-79-181-41-93.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:46 -!- General1337 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:47 -!- Demp [n=Demp@79.181.41.93] has joined #go-nuts 00:54 -!- Garen [n=garen@cpe-75-87-255-36.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:57 -!- goplexian [n=user@d154-20-0-9.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:02 -!- |hugues23| [n=kvirc@158.50.204.20] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:05 -!- FeliceMente [n=FeliceMe@host76-7-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 01:07 -!- FeliceMente [n=FeliceMe@host76-7-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #go-nuts [] 01:07 -!- FeliceMente [n=FeliceMe@host76-7-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 01:09 -!- FeliceMente [n=FeliceMe@host76-7-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17 -!- hd_2 [n=hd_@253.176.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 01:28 -!- [Pete_27] [n=noname@115.64.1.61] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:30 -!- [Pete_27] [n=noname@115.64.1.61] has joined #go-nuts 01:32 -!- mnky [n=mcfyang@pool-151-202-75-218.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:33 -!- hd_ [n=hd_@253.176.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:37 -!- callidus [n=quassel@cpc2-newc1-0-0-cust1524.gate.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:39 -!- absurdhero [n=kabodle@thales.strtok.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46 < goplexian> goodevening 01:47 -!- b00m_chef [n=watr@128.189.91.70] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:49 < CodeBlock> hi 01:56 -!- nullpo [n=nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 01:56 -!- fifoman [n=fifoman@79.204.126.97] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57 -!- fifoman [n=fifoman@p4FCC7AE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:58 -!- jhawk28 [n=jhawk28@user-142g7u9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:00 -!- jhawk28 [n=jhawk28@user-142g7u9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:00 -!- jhawk28 [n=jhawk28@user-142g7u9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:02 -!- jhawk28 [n=jhawk28@user-142g7u9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:10 -!- DerHorst_ [n=Horst@e176123020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 02:11 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@c-76-116-179-93.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:11 -!- jA_cOp [n=yakobu@unaffiliated/ja-cop/x-9478493] has joined #go-nuts 02:24 < trevor> I don't understand the Makefile language, so could someone explain to me how to build a package 02:24 < trevor> I tried 6a file.s but I get errors 02:25 < trevor> game.6:2 syntax error, last name: amd64 02:26 < trevor> Thats from 6g game.go; 6a game.6 02:31 < KirkMcDonald> make is easy. 02:32 < trevor> looks rather cryptic to me 02:32 < KirkMcDonald> target: dependencies 02:32 < KirkMcDonald> Followed by commands. 02:32 < KirkMcDonald> Then there's all the macro/variable stuff. 02:32 < crimson_penguin> there's so many different ways to do things with make 02:33 < crimson_penguin> anyway, it's not actually related to Go itself - just search for a make tutorial 02:33 < KirkMcDonald> But once you get the basic target/dependency thing, the rest follows fairly naturally. 02:33 < trevor> I'm not actually interested in make, I just want to know how to build and link to a custom pkg 02:34 < KirkMcDonald> Well. The easiest way is to write a Makefile. :-) 02:34 < trevor> Not if I don't know the commands to begin with 02:34 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 02:35 < KirkMcDonald> Actually, if you use the Make.pkg stuff, you don't even need to know the specific commands. (Though it is still good to know the commands.) 02:35 < trevor> Say I have a pkg src, pkg.go and a program src main.go 02:35 < trevor> main.go imports "./pkg" 02:35 < trevor> How can I build and link these? 02:35 < KirkMcDonald> 6g -o pkg.6 pkg.go; 6g -I. -o main.6 main.go; 6l -L . -o main main.6 02:35 < KirkMcDonald> Something... like that. 02:37 -!- rhelmer [n=rhelmer@adsl-69-107-78-140.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:39 < KirkMcDonald> trevor: Or just write a Makefile using Make.cmd. See src/cmd/cgo/Makefile for an example. 02:39 < trevor> I guess I'll try that because what you gave me isn't working :) 02:40 < KirkMcDonald> trevor: What is the error message? 02:40 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit ["peace in teh middle east"] 02:40 < trevor> Well I am trying to import "./game" from main.go 02:41 < KirkMcDonald> The ./ should not be necessary. 02:42 < trevor> Cool, that seems to work now 02:42 < KirkMcDonald> You would actually need two Makefiles, I am thinking. 02:42 < KirkMcDonald> One for the package, one for the binary. 02:43 < trevor> I could have sworn I read somewhere that ./ was necessary to import packages in a relative directory 02:43 < KirkMcDonald> trevor: This is what the -I. in that one command is for. 02:43 < KirkMcDonald> Adding the current directory to the package search path. 02:43 < trevor> Sure, I understand now 02:43 < trevor> Thanks 02:45 < trevor> I'm just taking in too many things at once. At first Go only seems a little different, but once you start using it you releaize it is a /lot/ different 02:45 < trevor> Different from traditional OO languages, that is 02:46 < KirkMcDonald> The interface mechanic lies somewhere in a weird region between C++ or Java-style inheritance-based polymorphism and Python-style duck-typing. 02:46 < KirkMcDonald> I like it. 02:47 < trevor> I've been coming up with designs for simple game engines where each entity has its own goroutine and the main controller communicates with each entity via channels 02:47 < KirkMcDonald> So the controller just keeps a big ol' collection of channels... 02:48 < trevor> Basically, yeah 02:48 < trevor> I'm not sure how feasible it all is yet. All those goroutines sort of scares me right now 02:48 < trevor> But I'm going to try 02:49 < trevor> The fun part is that I'm using websockets to talk to safari to do all the drawing in a canvas 02:54 -!- samferry [i=sam@unaffiliated/samferry] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:54 -!- samferry [i=sam@unaffiliated/samferry] has joined #go-nuts 03:04 -!- viirya [n=viirya@cml506-25.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #go-nuts 03:11 -!- scm_ [i=justme@c210109.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 03:11 -!- tor7 [n=tor@c-987a71d5.04-50-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 03:18 -!- GeoBSD [n=geobsd@lns-bzn-59-82-252-190-82.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:24 -!- scm [i=justme@c222066.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:25 -!- iant [n=iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:25 -!- iant [n=iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:25 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 03:32 -!- iwikiwi [n=iwikiwi@202.3.77.160] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 03:32 -!- iant [n=iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:32 -!- adiabatic [n=adiabati@dsl-206-55-130-248.tstonramp.com] has quit ["Rockin’ music will set you free."] 03:33 -!- iant [n=iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:33 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 03:49 -!- O1athe [n=Olathe@173-19-108-228.client.mchsi.com] has joined #go-nuts 03:50 -!- Olathe [n=Olathe@173-19-108-228.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:53 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has joined #go-nuts 03:56 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@c-68-58-17-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:59 -!- sinuhe [n=user@kaptah.deevans.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:09 -!- scm [i=justme@c210109.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:11 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:11 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has joined #go-nuts 04:14 -!- scm [i=justme@c209110.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 04:21 -!- kleinchris [n=kleinchr@project-ajax.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts 04:23 -!- jimdagem [n=jimdagem@69.57.198.88] has joined #go-nuts 04:25 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@c-68-58-17-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26 -!- jimdagem [n=jimdagem@69.57.198.88] has quit [Client Quit] 04:31 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [] 04:38 -!- kleinchris [n=kleinchr@project-ajax.de] has joined #go-nuts 04:51 < trevor> So I set this http://paste.lisp.org/display/93193 makefile up to build my program 04:51 < trevor> But I have custom packages in a pkg directory 04:51 < KirkMcDonald> Yes, you will need two makefiles. 04:51 < trevor> Is there an easy way to tell that makefile to include my pkgs? 04:51 < KirkMcDonald> One for the package, one for the binary. 04:52 < trevor> I have a makefile for my packages 04:52 < KirkMcDonald> I see. 04:52 < trevor> The build just fine and put a *.a in _obj folder in each pkg 04:52 < trevor> they* 04:52 < trevor> Now how to tell my binary makefile to look for these? 04:52 < KirkMcDonald> One option is to 'make install' each of the packages. 04:53 < KirkMcDonald> This has the slight downside of cramming the packages next to the standard library. 04:53 < trevor> Yeah, I'd rather not do that 04:53 < KirkMcDonald> Then (unfortunately) you need to get more creative. 04:54 * KirkMcDonald thinks about the best way to get more creative. 04:54 < trevor> Would be nice if the Makefile.cmd checked for a user definable list of pkgs to include 04:55 < KirkMcDonald> I once submitted a ticket on a related subject: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=347 04:55 < trevor> PKGS=pkg/game/_obj/game.a 04:55 < KirkMcDonald> This was before I discovered that Make.cmd existed, so the BIN variable I suggest is not actually needed. 04:55 < KirkMcDonald> But the other ones are still useful. 04:56 < trevor> Yes, I see 04:56 < trevor> It seems the LD options would need to be on Make.cmd, right? 04:57 < KirkMcDonald> Yes. 04:57 < KirkMcDonald> I should update that patch, in fact. Not least because Make.pkg has changed since I submitted it... 04:58 < trevor> Well if your patch solves my problem I will definitely leave a positive comment 04:59 < trevor> Looking inside Make.cmd give me a headache 04:59 < KirkMcDonald> heh 04:59 < trevor> Way too many symbols 04:59 < trevor> Very dense 04:59 < KirkMcDonald> Syntax highlighting helps. 05:00 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@202.38.97.230] has joined #go-nuts 05:00 < KirkMcDonald> vim Make.cmd -c ":set ft=make" 05:00 < trevor> I did download gnu make's pdf manual, I plan on reading it sometime 05:00 < trevor> It wasn't too long 05:00 < trevor> textmate user here 05:01 < KirkMcDonald> Make's basic mechanism is very simple. 05:01 < KirkMcDonald> target: dependencies 05:01 < trevor> Yeah, I read the intro chapter 05:02 < trevor> Simple enough, seems to get confusing in real world usage 05:02 < KirkMcDonald> The trick is that you can have variables/macros. 05:02 < KirkMcDonald> All that $(FOO) stuff. 05:04 < KirkMcDonald> And Make.pkg is much more complicated than Make.cmd. 05:04 < KirkMcDonald> Since there's all that cgo stuff in there. 05:05 < trevor> Yeah, I more or less understood Make.cmd 05:05 < trevor> Well doing make install for my pkgs work 05:05 < trevor> Just have to be careful not to use the same name as a standard pkg 05:06 < KirkMcDonald> Indeed. 05:06 < Ycros> yeah, I've been doing make install for my own stuff 05:07 < KirkMcDonald> My plan is to do something creative with epkg. 05:07 < CodeBlock> How would I go about doing multi-dimensional arrays? For example, func test(a []string) string { ... }, but I want a to be an array of arrays instead of an array of strings. 05:07 < Ycros> epkg? 05:07 < KirkMcDonald> CodeBlock: You mean like [][]string ? 05:07 < trevor> I suppose the Makefile's aren't more sophisticated because the Go guys want to build their own build/packaging tools 05:08 < trevor> Thats the implication I get from the Makefile section of http://golang.org/doc/code.html anyways 05:08 < CodeBlock> KirkMcDonald: alright, that's what I thought ;) 05:08 < Ycros> trevor: yeah, they're fine for now 05:08 < CodeBlock> KirkMcDonald: thanks :) 05:09 -!- keeto_ [n=keeto@121.54.92.149] has joined #go-nuts 05:09 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: epkg is a lightweight packaging tool. 05:10 -!- keeto [n=keeto@121.54.92.149] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:10 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: For cramming lots of different things into a common prefix, without having them step on each other too badly, and with the ability to remove them. 05:10 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: never heard of it 05:10 < KirkMcDonald> It is very useful. 05:10 < KirkMcDonald> Mostly because it is almost totally brain-dead. 05:11 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: it's kind of like stow then? 05:11 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: Yes, I have heard this, but I've never used stow. 05:11 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: doesn't look very maintained 05:11 < KirkMcDonald> Doesn't need to be, really. 05:12 < KirkMcDonald> It does one very simple thing, and it works. 05:13 < Ycros> mmk 05:13 < Ycros> so you want to use epkg for go libs/apps? 05:13 < Ycros> and go itself? 05:13 < KirkMcDonald> My thinking was, rather than installing third-party packages directly next to the standard library, I could do so via epkg. 05:14 < Ycros> aye. And then just rely on epkg to manage the link farm 05:14 < KirkMcDonald> Indeed. 05:16 < Ycros> an alternative would be messing with search paths during compilation time 05:16 < KirkMcDonald> Both solutions are permitted with my patch. 05:17 < CodeBlock> KirkMcDonald: gah, could you throw me a quick example of putting two arrays in that (multidimensional) array? Can't seem to figure the syntax out (this is my second day in Go, so go easy :P) 05:17 < KirkMcDonald> The point being that Makefiles are permitted to be totally ignorant of any such chicanery, but the user/sysadmin/whatever can play these games to their heart's content. 05:18 < Ycros> to be useful we'd need an ability to register installed dependencies, and to be able to specify required dependencies per project 05:18 < Ycros> ie. pkg-config, ruby gems, python eggs, etc. 05:18 < KirkMcDonald> CodeBlock: var foo [][]string = [][]string{ []string{ "foo", "bar" }, []string{ "baz", "blah" } }; 05:18 < CodeBlock> KirkMcDonald: you rock, thanks :) 05:19 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: Maybe. 05:19 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: I would not go this far. 05:20 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: Another way of doing it, which also has merit, would be something analogous to Python's site-packages. 05:20 < KirkMcDonald> Just a flat directory into which third-party packages may be shoved. 05:21 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: The key fact of both gems and eggs is that they suck. 05:22 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: you should be able to say, "this project requires this version of this project" 05:23 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: And this is what rpms and debs and so forth are for. 05:23 < KirkMcDonald> There are already waaaay too many packaging tools. 05:24 < KirkMcDonald> Less is really more, here. 05:24 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: not for development, or for many cases when I need to rely on different versions of things that are in a particular distribution's repositories 05:25 < Ycros> and it should be easy to package this stuff up by a distro, because then they can base their dependencies off these dependencies 05:26 < Ycros> ie. my python projects are generally deployable anywhere you have a python interpreter. They'll pull down and locally install any dependencies that are missing, or the wrong version on the system. 05:26 < Ycros> at the same time, nothing's going to stop someone rolling some debs/rpms for it, if they want to do that for their distro 05:26 < Ycros> but if they want cutting edge stuff, well then. 05:27 < KirkMcDonald> I am not a fan of the lowest-common-denominator build solution attempting to be intelligent with regards to dependencies. 05:28 < KirkMcDonald> This is the primary reason I despise setuptools and its ilk. 05:28 < Ycros> I do agree that things shouldn't be installed randomly across the system though 05:29 < KirkMcDonald> Yes. Or, even, all installed into once place. :-) 05:29 < KirkMcDonald> s/once/one/ 05:29 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: okay, but it's very nice for development, and deployment (especially for internal apps) 05:29 < Ycros> that's why I like setuptools 05:29 < Ycros> I'm not going to sit there, and package up my dependencies into debs so I can deploy them (though, one person I know does exactly this) 05:29 < Ycros> especially when some are specific revisions pulled out of various repos, or cutting edge stuff 05:29 < KirkMcDonald> Heh. My favorite deployment strategy is rsync + epkg. 05:29 -!- amorpisseur [n=analogue@toulouse.jfg-networks.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:30 < Ycros> or sometimes old versions 05:30 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: right, and I can practically do that with my projects, they're all self-contained to one directory 05:31 < Ycros> the ruby community has been drifting towards this too (at least in the web space), merb has had gem freezing, and now it's going all into rails too 05:32 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: note that I pretty much never do an "easy_install" or "gem install" anything, I merely specify the dependencies for my projects 05:32 -!- crimson_penguin [n=ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [] 05:32 < Ycros> oh, and Haskell uses a similar system with hackage/cabal 05:33 < KirkMcDonald> Setuptools pet peeve: It doesn't like installing packages to directories which are not on the Python module search path. 05:33 < KirkMcDonald> "Gee, Python won't be able to import it if you install it there!" ERROR, DIE 05:33 < KirkMcDonald> No, dangit, I actually wanted to do that. 05:34 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: take a look at zc.buildout 05:34 < Ycros> and/or virtualenvs (everyone seems to be raving on about virtualenvs, but honestly, zc.buildout is better) 05:37 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: seriously, how do you deal with dependencies at the moment? 05:38 < KirkMcDonald> Depends. 05:38 < KirkMcDonald> But I am not above doing so manually. 05:40 < Ycros> yes, go on. I mean, say you're developing on a project, and new version X of project Y just came out, which turns out to implement a feature Z that you need for your project - and obviously it's not packaged by your distro 05:40 < Ycros> what do you do? 05:40 < KirkMcDonald> I built it and jam it in /usr/local via epkg. 05:40 < KirkMcDonald> build* 05:41 < Ycros> fantastic, and how do you deploy/release that? I bet you write the dependencies needed in a README 05:41 < Ycros> what if 05:41 < KirkMcDonald> Depends on what kind of thing it is. 05:41 < Ycros> so, when you have two different versions of the same software you need for different projects? 05:41 < Ycros> you use epkg to switch between each time you want to work on the other project? 05:41 < KirkMcDonald> That would be insane. 05:42 < Ycros> I have been in that situation a few times 05:42 < Ycros> it's a non issue with python projects using zc.buildout because all deps are managed locally per project, it's a non-issue with my haskell projects, because they pull in the right version of deps at compile time 05:43 < KirkMcDonald> The more "interesting" case is C. 05:43 < Ycros> it also means I can throw the project on another machine, and get it running quickly and easily 05:44 < KirkMcDonald> Go's lack of dynamic libraries eliminates that entire class of, ah, interesting situation. 05:44 < Ycros> but yeah, it does break down at the language barrier 05:44 < Ycros> like, C deps for python modules 05:44 < Ycros> but thankfully C deps tend to be way more stable 05:44 < KirkMcDonald> Yes. 05:44 < KirkMcDonald> And backwards-compatible... usually. 05:44 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: yeah, but i think Go will get dynamic libraries 05:45 < Ycros> at some point 05:45 < KirkMcDonald> Perhaps. 05:45 < Ycros> it probably doesn't have them at the moment simply because it's an experimental language and not finished yet 05:45 < Ycros> I'd like to be able to dynamically load/reload code at some point 05:45 < KirkMcDonald> There is a lot to like about static everything. 05:45 < KirkMcDonald> Build binary -> deploy binary 05:46 < KirkMcDonald> Bang, done. 05:46 < Ycros> yes, but I'm not talking about taking away that choice 05:46 < Ycros> you can compile C/C++ code as static if you wish 05:46 < KirkMcDonald> True. 05:46 < KirkMcDonald> Well. 05:47 < KirkMcDonald> I am not sure how practical that is in practice. 05:47 < Ycros> both Python's and Haskell's package system integrate at the system level too, if I have a dependency that's installed via apt, and it satisfies my project's deps, it won't get pulled in 05:50 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@202.38.97.230] has quit [] 05:51 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@c-68-58-17-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:51 -!- General1337 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 05:51 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts 06:01 -!- General1337 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:02 -!- General1337 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 06:07 -!- General1337 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:08 -!- General13372 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:09 -!- skelterjohn 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has joined #go-nuts 08:41 -!- nanoo [n=nano@95-89-198-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 08:52 -!- tomestla [n=tom@87.100.115.249] has joined #go-nuts 08:55 -!- p0g0__ [n=pogo@unaffiliated/p0g0] has joined #go-nuts 08:57 -!- p0g0_ [n=pogo@unaffiliated/p0g0] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:03 -!- kashia_ [n=Kashia@p54AB54DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:04 -!- Kashia [n=Kashia@p54AB7AC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:05 < trevor> Say g.Es is a vector holding things which comply with the Entity interface 09:05 < trevor> I want to go through and call Step on each one (Step is a func in the Entity interface) 09:05 < trevor> http://paste.lisp.org/display/93196 09:06 < trevor> That doesn't work, but I'm looking for the "Go" way to do this 09:07 < Kashia> any error messages? 09:07 < trevor> game.go:37: invalid type assertion: e.(Entity) (non-interface type int on left) 09:07 < Kashia> i, e := range 09:07 < Kashia> first is the index I think 09:07 < trevor> OH, duh 09:08 < trevor> Forgot, that int on left should have given me a clue 09:08 < trevor> It just confused me :) 09:08 < Kashia> *nod* 09:08 < trevor> thanks 09:09 -!- Olathe [n=Olathe@173-19-108-228.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:11 -!- bortzmeyer [n=stephane@central.sources.org] has joined #go-nuts 09:12 < Kashia> hm. really counter intuitive. 09:12 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has quit [] 09:12 < Kashia> I doubt one really wants only the index usually 09:12 < Kashia> but it is analogous to the x.(Type) case 09:13 < Kashia> y, ok := x.(Type) where one can leave the second return value off too 09:14 < trevor> I don't have much experience with Go, but when I range over a container, I usually just want the items 09:15 < Kashia> I agree. 09:16 < Kashia> The ordering of index first is quite like in C, where one only iterates over indices 09:19 < trevor> Having the element the first return value and index the optional second would probably save a lot of "_, x := range a" 09:19 < trevor> But its not that big of a deal really 09:22 -!- Oejet [n=s022018@glint05.gbar.dtu.dk] has joined #go-nuts 09:27 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:29 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has joined #go-nuts 09:48 -!- oal [n=olav@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:50 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@202.38.97.230] has joined #go-nuts 09:55 -!- alexis_ [n=alexis@58.108.161.163] has joined #go-nuts 09:56 < alexis_> is there anyone here? 09:58 < dagle> Yes. 09:59 < alexis_> I am interested in writing an exact rounding maths lib, would this be useful 09:59 < dagle> rounding? 10:00 < alexis_> floating point rounding. 10:00 < trevor> alexis_: There has been discussion on the mailing list recently about such a pkg 10:00 < alexis_> that was me 10:02 < dagle> I kinda feel that a round function would be that different on each usage that a general function is pretty hard. 10:03 -!- iwikiwi [n=iwikiwi@202.3.77.160] has joined #go-nuts 10:03 < alexis_> I have found in my reading an interesting approach 10:03 < alexis_> It is based upon two things. 10:04 < dagle> round(x float, dec, close int) is pretty general. 10:04 < alexis_> One is a set of tight bounds on the required precision, 10:04 < alexis_> that is not what I ment 10:05 -!- trevor [n=trevor@adsl-70-142-37-108.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:05 < alexis_> I meant a library of maths functions with exact rounding, eg. ln() exp() sin() etc. 10:06 < dagle> Aha. 10:06 < dagle> Just woke up. :) 10:07 < alexis_> as the current lib is accurate only to \pm one \epsilon 10:08 -!- tomestla [n=tom@87.100.115.249] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:09 < alexis_> I will do something and come back. 10:13 -!- ako [n=nya@f052074018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 10:16 -!- ako [n=nya@f052074018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:18 < moraes> guys, http://paste.pocoo.org/ now supports go! 10:18 < moraes> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/163927/ 10:18 -!- sebastiandeutsch [n=sebastia@dslb-084-060-121-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:18 -!- triplez_ [n=triplez@cm52.sigma225.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts 10:19 < moraes> thanks to KirkMcDonald for the grammar. :) 10:20 < sebastiandeutsch> I want to create a composite struct that uses Time. So I imported time and used it, but the compiler say that he doesnt know Time. http://pastebin.com/m5c5a6abe 10:22 -!- triplez [n=triplez@cm52.sigma225.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:25 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has joined #go-nuts 10:29 -!- cc_br [n=caio@201-11-160-103.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 10:29 < cc_br> hi all! 10:29 < cc_br> just a simple question.. does go have constructors? 10:31 < jessta> cc_br: nope 10:31 -!- aho [n=nya@f052075122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:31 < cc_br> ty 10:31 < jessta> cc_br: but the convention is just to make a function called NewSomething() 10:34 < sebastiandeutsch> Getting nuts - when I import time, I assume I can use the Time struct but I get errors: imported and not used: time / undefined: Time 10:35 < cc_br> yeh, i was doing that already =) 10:35 < cc_br> @sebastiandeutsch don't you have to use time.Time ? 10:37 < sebastiandeutsch> cc_br: yes that was it. thx. 10:42 -!- r2p2 [n=billy@v32671.1blu.de] has joined #go-nuts 10:46 -!- Demp [n=Demp@79.181.41.93] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:46 -!- Demp [n=Demp@bzq-79-181-41-93.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:48 -!- mrmg [n=mrmg@spc2-bmly4-0-0-cust248.asfd.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:50 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@202.38.97.230] has quit [] 10:51 -!- callidus [n=quassel@cpc2-newc1-0-0-cust1524.gate.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 10:54 -!- Demp_ [n=Demp@bzq-79-181-41-93.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:05 -!- cc_br [n=caio@201-11-160-103.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has left #go-nuts [] 11:07 -!- Demp [n=Demp@bzq-79-181-41-93.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:11 -!- Demp_ [n=Demp@bzq-79-181-41-93.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:15 -!- tomestla [n=tom@87.100.115.249] has joined #go-nuts 11:21 -!- tomestla [n=tom@87.100.115.249] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:22 -!- Demp [n=Demp@bzq-79-181-41-93.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:22 < sebastiandeutsch> was io.ReadFile abandoned? 11:25 < Kashia> ioutil I think 11:25 < Kashia> io/ioutil 11:25 < sebastiandeutsch> Kashia: Ah it was moved 11:37 -!- idea_squirrel [n=ct2rips@77-21-26-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:40 -!- Fraeon [n=kzer-za@e212-246-65-153.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 11:43 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 11:50 -!- dj_ryan_ [n=ryan@c-67-160-202-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:00 < sebastiandeutsch> Is there something like ReadLine if I don't want to read the whole file? 12:01 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:01 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 12:02 -!- dj_ryan [n=ryan@67.160.202.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:03 < jessta> sebastiandeutsch: yes 12:04 < sebastiandeutsch> jessta: When I search the help for ReadLine I yield no results. I can haz pointer? 12:04 < jessta> sebastiandeutsch: bufio.ReadString('\n') 12:04 < sebastiandeutsch> jessta: thx 12:17 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 12:29 -!- bortzmeyer [n=stephane@central.sources.org] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:30 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@222.254.0.77] has joined #go-nuts 12:32 -!- garbeam [n=arg@212.13.194.175.rev.bitfolk.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:33 < sebastiandeutsch> does go have something like default parameters in functions? 12:35 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:35 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 12:36 < jessta> sebastiandeutsch: nope 12:36 < jessta> you can just use wrapper functions 12:39 < sebastiandeutsch> k 12:41 * dagle tried to debug som php code. 12:41 < dagle> But suiced was the better option. 12:46 -!- encolpe [n=encolpe@gai69-3-82-235-15-3.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:49 < jessta> rewriting in go is better than suicide 12:50 < dagle> The functions sucks more then the language. 12:54 < dagle> I really like this: If(!function_exists('somefunc')) { function somefunc ... } 12:54 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:54 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 12:54 < dagle> So if there is a function named the same that does something totaly different then use that instead and don't give an error! That seams to be a good idea! 12:57 < jessta> yeah, I'm a big fan of static typing and non-meta programming 13:06 < dagle> :) 13:07 < Kashia> yay for system wide replacement of classes at runtime like objc ;) 13:12 < moraes> or python 13:16 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@202.38.97.230] has joined #go-nuts 13:19 -!- Kashia [n=Kashia@p54AB54DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:20 -!- nullpo [n=nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26 < taruti> or perl 13:31 -!- DerHorst [n=Horst@e176123020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 13:33 -!- alexis_ [n=alexis@58.108.161.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:41 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@202.38.97.230] has quit [] 13:42 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 13:46 < jessta> or lisp 13:57 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@222.254.0.77] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:59 -!- jajamana [n=jcb@cm-84.215.40.160.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 14:00 -!- tor7 [n=tor@c-987a71d5.04-50-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 14:19 -!- mnky [n=mcfyang@pool-70-23-223-207.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:20 -!- Fraeon [n=kzer-za@e212-246-65-153.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #go-nuts 14:26 -!- iwikiwi [n=iwikiwi@202.3.77.160] has quit ["I ascend to reality!"] 14:31 -!- dju [n=dju@89-158-236-229.rev.dartybox.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:40 -!- jajamana [n=jcb@cm-84.215.40.160.getinternet.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:44 -!- tor7_ [n=tor@c-987a71d5.04-50-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 14:44 -!- tor7 [n=tor@c-987a71d5.04-50-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:01 -!- bthomson [n=bthomson@71.114.74.245] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:11 -!- |hugues23| [n=kvirc@vol75-8-82-233-237-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:15 -!- bthomson [n=bthomson@c-69-255-188-5.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:36 -!- Adys_ [n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 15:37 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@c-76-116-179-93.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:43 -!- jA_cOp [n=yakobu@unaffiliated/ja-cop/x-9478493] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:48 -!- Adys [n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:50 -!- theGussi [n=gussi@gussi.is] has joined #go-nuts 15:51 < taruti> would other people like a single-vtable-interface-struct possiblity in Go in addition to the current model? 15:51 -!- kanru [n=kanru@61-228-159-192.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["WeeChat 0.3.0"] 15:51 * taruti is thinking on what level to hack support for it 15:53 -!- amacleod [n=amacleod@c-75-69-45-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:53 -!- sebastiandeutsch [n=sebastia@dslb-084-060-121-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:54 -!- sebastiandeutsch [n=sebastia@dslb-084-060-121-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:55 < taruti> basically a variant of new that would create: pointer->{iface-vtable, struct-field1, ..., struct-fieldN}. 16:00 -!- yadudoc [n=yadu@unaffiliated/yadudoc] has joined #go-nuts 16:03 -!- Gussi [n=gussi@gussi.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11 -!- peppers [n=peppers@87.196.187.40] has joined #go-nuts 16:14 -!- gnuvince_ [n=vince@64.235.211.204] has joined #go-nuts 16:24 < rog_> taruti: what do you mean by that? 16:27 -!- gnuvince [n=vince@64.235.201.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:30 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:38 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@i577AE5E2.versanet.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:39 < taruti> rog_: just a memory layout optimization for the case that uses a "classic" class approach. 16:40 < rog_> how is it an optimisation? 16:42 < taruti> rog_: because I end up needing pointer to interfaces rather than interfaces which results in more overhead with the current system. 16:48 -!- vizzord [n=exn@195.49.206.202] has joined #go-nuts 16:49 < rog_> why do you want to recreate java in go? 16:49 -!- Olathe [n=Olathe@173-19-108-228.client.mchsi.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:50 < jessta> taruti: why? 16:51 < taruti> jessta: shared memory concurrency things. 16:51 < taruti> but I'll benchmark things first 16:52 < rog_> "don't communicate by sharing memory, share memory by communicating" :-) 16:52 < me__> that is a remarkably catchy statement 16:53 < taruti> rog_: of course if the data is ~500mb it might make sense to share it ;) 16:53 < taruti> database like thing. 16:53 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:55 -!- fifoman [n=fifoman@p4FCC7AE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56 -!- fifoman [n=fifoman@p4FCC5C94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:58 < peppers> is it reasonable to code a p2p client in go? or is the networking lib not mature enough yet? 16:59 < jessta> peppers: yep, it's reasonable 16:59 -!- kleinchris [n=kleinchr@project-ajax.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00 < peppers> jessta: thanks, very good news :) 17:01 -!- kleinchris [n=kleinchr@project-ajax.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:08 -!- scarabx [n=scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:14 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14 -!- nunoferreira [n=nunoferr@87-196-197-71.net.novis.pt] has joined #go-nuts 17:14 -!- nunoferreira [n=nunoferr@87-196-197-71.net.novis.pt] has left #go-nuts [] 17:15 -!- Odemia [n=Odemia-D@207.47.143.154] has joined #go-nuts 17:16 < rog_> taruti: which data? 17:16 -!- kleinchris [n=kleinchr@project-ajax.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:17 -!- kleinchris [n=kleinchr@project-ajax.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:19 -!- bortzmeyer [n=stephane@central.sources.org] has joined #go-nuts 17:21 -!- Odemia [n=Odemia-D@207.47.143.154] has left #go-nuts ["Parting ways"] 17:21 -!- pshahmumbai [n=prashant@59.164.25.27] has joined #go-nuts 17:27 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@p4FE74B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:31 -!- yadudoc [n=yadu@unaffiliated/yadudoc] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:39 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:40 -!- tomestla [n=tom@AToulouse-151-1-18-34.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 17:44 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@5ad5026c.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:52 -!- ptrb [n=peter@vc-41-26-125-190.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #go-nuts 17:53 < ptrb> hey I don't suppose there's some cookbook code floating around somewhere that parses typical HTML, is there? 17:53 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@5ad5026c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:53 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@5ad5026c.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:55 -!- scarabx [n=scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:56 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5ad5026c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:58 -!- _hugues23_ [n=kvirc@158.50.204.20] has joined #go-nuts 17:58 -!- |hugues23| [n=kvirc@vol75-8-82-233-237-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05 -!- b00m_chef [n=watr@d64-180-45-230.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:10 -!- General13372 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:13 -!- General1337 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:14 -!- Xera^ [n=brit@87-194-208-246.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 18:22 -!- kleinchris [n=kleinchr@project-ajax.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:23 -!- kleinchris [n=kleinchr@project-ajax.de] has joined #go-nuts 18:24 -!- eds [n=chickenc@c-69-254-239-254.hsd1.ks.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:24 -!- scarabx [n=scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:27 -!- nanoo [n=nano@95-89-198-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:33 -!- b00m_chef [n=watr@d64-180-45-230.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:35 -!- b00m_chef [n=watr@d64-180-45-230.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:49 < tor7> ptrb: the xml package can parse HTML (somewhat) 18:59 -!- General1337 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:04 -!- General13372 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:04 -!- encolpe [n=encolpe@gai69-3-82-235-15-3.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:05 -!- encolpe [n=encolpe@gai69-3-82-235-15-3.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:09 -!- abiosoft [n=ibrahim@41.219.205.245] has joined #go-nuts 19:10 < abiosoft> hello 19:10 < ptrb> tor7: yeah I looked at that, but was hoping there was some example code floating around somewhere. all i've been able to find is someone parsing twitter atom results :\ 19:11 -!- arty [n=arty@reactos/developer/arty] has left #go-nuts [] 19:17 -!- sevvie [n=seven@agaton.scsys.co.uk] has left #go-nuts [] 19:19 < taruti> Has anyone got flymake working with go? 19:21 -!- pshahmumbai [n=prashant@59.164.25.27] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:24 -!- abiosoft [n=ibrahim@41.219.205.245] has left #go-nuts [] 19:31 < taruti> Slice assignment is probably non-atomical? 19:33 -!- amacleod [n=amacleod@c-75-69-45-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33 < taruti> I am thinking of translating C code like "T *entries = malloc(sizeof(T) * N); ... ; entries = malloc(sizeof(T) * N2);" where the Ts have mutexes to protect them and they are concurrently accessed by multiple go-routines. What is a good way to do this in Go? 19:34 < taruti> The issue is the reassigning to entries is atomical in C, but if it is a slice in Go then probably not atomical. 19:36 -!- happy [n=stephen@pool-96-232-88-231.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:36 -!- Pirate_Hunter [n=Pirate_H@87.74.76.230] has joined #go-nuts 19:38 -!- Pirate_Hunter [n=Pirate_H@87.74.76.230] has left #go-nuts ["I'll be back Bigger, Badder n in HD View"] 19:43 < KirkMcDonald> "Atomic" is the adjective. 19:52 < tor7> taruti: a good way is to redesign the program to use goroutines and channels ;) 19:53 < bortzmeyer> taruti: You can do a slice assignment? My compiler does not let me put t[1:2] on the left side of a = 19:55 < taruti> bortzmeyer: see the vector package for an example. 19:55 < taruti> tor7: not everything is modellable naturally with go-channels. 19:59 < tor7> taruti: look at the sync package for mutexes then 20:00 < taruti> tor7: I am using them. 20:01 < tor7> then, what was your question again? 20:03 < taruti> tor7: looking for a way to get variable sized arrays through a pointer to get atomic update on that pointer if needed. (yes it can be solved with adding a global mutex but that would be quite bad) 20:05 < tor7> like "p = p + 1" or "p = q" where the allocated memory is disjunct? 20:06 < taruti> p = q 20:07 < tor7> I doubt you can do that without some form of synchronization 20:07 < taruti> which should on the platforms that go support iff p and q are word-sized. 20:08 < tor7> if you used pointers to arrays (as opposed to slices) it would be possible 20:08 < tor7> but you said variable sized array 20:08 < taruti> yes, except go does not support variable sized arrays. 20:08 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has joined #go-nuts 20:09 < taruti> a pointer to a slice would be possible, but I don't know whether avoiding that indirection is possible 20:09 < tor7> exactly. so now the bigger question, which involves the Go way of doing things, is why would you want to do it that way? 20:09 < tor7> why are two uncommunicating threads writing to the same data 20:10 < happy> does go prevent if else statements? 20:10 -!- aho [n=nya@g226128197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 20:10 < tor7> happy: say what? 20:10 < happy> oops 20:10 < taruti> tor7: it is shared data and there are multiple clients accessing it. and some operations need to access multiple items (and thus there needs to be locking order to avoid deadlocks) 20:10 < happy> I mean else if 20:11 < happy> I am getting a weird error "syntax error near else" 20:11 -!- pure_x01 [n=pure@c83-248-3-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 20:11 < Olathe> happy: You're wondering how to do else if in Go ? 20:11 < tor7> happy: not without an extra pair of braces "if exp { } else { if ... } 20:11 < taruti> also things need to have an identity and be serialized, thus channels are a quite poor solution to this. 20:12 < tor7> happy: you're better off using an empty switch statement 20:12 < happy> tor7: It is just two options and it is a quick test 20:12 < happy> I will pastebin it 20:12 < pure_x01> does anyone have a good explination of packages v.s object files ..and compilation (how to reference packages on compilation) 20:13 < tor7> pure_x01: all sources of a package have to be compiled in one step, resulting in one object file 20:13 < taruti> pure_x01: use the Makefile-stubs provided. 20:13 < happy> anyone know why this won't compile? http://pastebin.com/d258d7359 20:14 < tor7> happy: switch { case a < 0: ...; case a == 0: ...; case a > 0: ...; } 20:14 < tor7> happy: it fails because the else statement has to be a block. there are no "lone" one-line statements in Go 20:15 < happy> tor7: nope. That did not work 20:15 < happy> same error 20:16 < tor7> happy: http://gopaste.org/view/ePE37 20:17 < pure_x01> tor7: thanx 20:17 < pure_x01> taruti, thahx 20:18 < Olathe> happy: You can try this, too: http://pastebin.com/d3c39d140 20:18 < tor7> Olathe: you pasted it 5 seconds before I got around to it :) 20:18 < Olathe> OK :) 20:18 < tor7> http://gopaste.org/view/Ev311 20:19 < Olathe> Oh, mine is not so nice. 20:19 < happy> tor7 I tried that 20:19 -!- Fl1pFl0p [n=FlipFlop@ip68-8-225-187.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:19 < pure_x01> tor7, taruti: i have this Makefile.. is there anything apperantly wrong with it http://pastebin.com/m2e5fbefd 20:19 -!- peppers_ [n=peppers@87-196-196-136.net.novis.pt] has joined #go-nuts 20:19 < happy> Olathe, I guess I will try your way 20:19 < Olathe> happy: http://pastebin.com/d1174d3db 20:20 < Olathe> Try that, since it is a bit better than my previous 20:20 < tor7> pure_x01: are main.go and netsnail.go in the same package? 20:20 < happy> Olathe: why did you do the assignment? 20:21 < happy> file := files[i]? 20:21 < pure_x01> tor7; no .. main.go is in main package and netsnail.go is in the netsnail package 20:21 < Olathe> happy: Yes, it keeps you from having to look it up at that index each time, plus it makes the code a bit nicer to read (I think). 20:21 < tor7> pure_x01: then it looks okay to my eyes :) 20:21 < happy> ok 20:22 < Olathe> There's probably some nicer way to do that (iterating through array). 20:22 < pure_x01> tor7: thanx.. :-) 20:22 < tor7> pure_x01: though I'd make "main.$O: main.go netsnail.$O" to get the dependencies right 20:23 < pure_x01> tor7: thanx il do that 20:23 < Olathe> happy: Maybe this: for _, file := range files { 20:23 < tor7> note how main.go depends on the object for the packages it uses 20:24 < Olathe> happy: Like in http://pastebin.com/d118859a 20:26 < usa> pure_x01, I would use more Make variables. like $@ and $^. I may have updated your pastebin. 20:27 < pure_x01> usa: how does those work? 20:27 -!- peppers [n=peppers@87.196.187.40] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27 < happy> Olathe, now I have a new problem :-(. My function definition for isOlderThan is not working. Can you tell me how I can make it work? 20:28 < tor7> pure_x01: not very well with Go, they're handier for languages where you can do piecemeal compilation like C 20:28 < tor7> $@ and $^ are shortcuts for the target and dependencies of a rule 20:29 < pure_x01> how come compilation with go and multiple packages is so complicated.. why not just 6g -o mybin src/*.go 20:29 < taruti> Has anyone used cpp with Go? (yes, I realise it is evil, but lacking proper generics is also evil) 20:29 < taruti> pure_x01: just have one directory per-package and it will become much easier. 20:30 < usa> $@ is the "target", the thing to the left of the colon 20:30 < tor7> pure_x01: it's only complicated if you do things in a different way from the standard go packages :) 20:30 < usa> $^ are the prerequsites, the things to the right of the colon. 20:37 -!- trevor [n=trevor@adsl-70-142-37-108.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:38 < trevor> Anyone know of a book/talk that goes over good design of concurrent programs written in a language like go? 20:38 -!- bortzmeyer [n=stephane@central.sources.org] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:39 < trevor> I read Pike's article about his window system in newsqueak, which was interesting, but I didn't pull a lot of generalizations from it 20:39 < me__> trevor: for the theory behind it and some reasonable examples, 'Communicating Sequential Processes' by Hoare 20:39 -!- idea_squirrel [n=ct2rips@77-21-26-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["zu müde oder muss afk ... suchs dir aus"] 20:39 < trevor> me__: I tried that, but it seemed more focused of theory 20:40 < taruti> also Erlang stuff might be usefull for concurrent solutions (but they have slightly different ways of doing things with messaging tied to process identity) 20:40 < me__> yea. the later part of the book (after he talks about the angelic stuff) is more non-theory. 20:41 < trevor> me__: I'll try browsing it again to see if I can find the non theory stuff 20:41 < trevor> I guess what I am looking for is Pike's The Practice of Programming turned into The Practice of Concurrent Programming 20:41 < trevor> Hopefully he writes that book for Go :) 20:44 < damjan> isn't anything written on the "Actor model" applieable to go directly 20:45 < trevor> Possibly, know of any good books on designing practical programs with the actor model? 20:46 < damjan> no :) 20:46 < damjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actor_model#See_also 20:46 < damjan> :) 20:47 < trevor> And they all look so relevant to writing programs :) 20:48 < trevor> http://www.amazon.com/Actor-Model-Frederic-P-Miller/dp/6130094280/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263156563&sr=1-3 was published recently 20:48 < trevor> The product description only describes the history of the actor model, and not the actual book itself 20:56 -!- me__ [n=me@c-68-55-179-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:56 < ptrb> So xml.Unmarshal shits itself when there's any XML Syntax error... what's the commonly accepted practice to be a bit more permissive with input? 20:57 -!- prip [n=_prip@host58-82-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57 -!- me__ [n=me@c-68-55-179-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:57 -!- vizzord [n=exn@195.49.206.202] has quit ["see you"] 20:59 < taruti> praying 20:59 -!- prip [n=_prip@host226-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 21:00 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:00 -!- sinuhe [n=user@kaptah.deevans.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:00 < tor7> ptrb: p.AutoClose = xml.HTMLAutoClose 21:03 -!- ako [n=nya@f050232108.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 21:04 < pure_x01> tor7, taruti: its working now http://pastebin.com/d7471d1e3 wasnt so complicated after all .. but thanx for the help :-) 21:05 < peppers_> I code in kate for linux and have its load/save profile set to iso-8859-1. will this be a problem when coding in Go? 21:07 < tor7> only if you use any non-ascii characters 21:08 < pure_x01> is go the first "low level" (maybe lower than c#,Java) language with default support for unicode? 21:08 < tor7> but, please, get with the times and make the switch to UTF-8 already! ;) 21:17 -!- aho [n=nya@g226128197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:18 -!- oal [n=olav@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:19 -!- sebastiandeutsch [n=sebastia@dslb-084-060-121-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 21:25 < happy> how do you caste from one type to another? 21:26 < happy> nm 21:35 < happy> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=512 21:35 < taruti> hmm, is time.Ticker broken if the system clock is moved backwards? 21:39 < ptrb> autoclose! okay 21:39 < ptrb> thanks! 21:39 -!- ptrb [n=peter@vc-41-26-125-190.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46 -!- sebastiandeutsch [n=sebastia@dslb-084-060-121-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:46 -!- travalas [n=travalas@203.112.203.211] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46 -!- sebastiandeutsch [n=sebastia@dslb-084-060-121-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:46 -!- sebastiandeutsch [n=sebastia@dslb-084-060-121-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:47 < sebastiandeutsch> I want to read a text file that is iso-8859-1 is there something to convert the strings to utf-8? 21:47 -!- Kashia [n=Kashia@port-92-200-189-162.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 21:50 -!- _hugues23_ [n=kvirc@158.50.204.20] has quit ["KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090520, built on: 2009/06/08 19:18:46 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/"] 21:53 < KirkMcDonald> I can do it in one line of Python. :-) 21:55 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has joined #go-nuts 21:57 < sebastiandeutsch> I can do it in several lines in C++ aswell, I just wonder if I have to port iconv to #go 22:01 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["throng to learn what the heck unity3d does"] 22:01 -!- jA_cOp [n=yakobu@unaffiliated/ja-cop/x-9478493] has joined #go-nuts 22:03 < tor7> if it's latin-1 just upcast the bytes to ints and be happy that latin-1 is a subset of unicode 22:03 -!- travalas [n=travalas@210.4.67.126] has joined #go-nuts 22:04 < tor7> then use string([]int) to convert to a string and off you go 22:05 < sebastiandeutsch> tor7: thx 22:05 < sebastiandeutsch> that's a good quickfix, but maybe i try to wrap iconv 22:07 < pure_x01> whats your thoughts on having error's from unused stuff.. sometimes i like to comment out code just to try without it and then the imports get unused.. i think it would be good with just a warning 22:07 -!- travalas [n=travalas@210.4.67.126] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08 -!- travalas [n=travalas@123.49.42.26] has joined #go-nuts 22:08 < rog_> pure_x01: i think on balance it's good. particularly for unused modules 22:09 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:10 < pure_x01> rog_: but in what sense is it an error? 22:11 < happy_> pure_x01: I agree completely. A warning would be more appropriate. However, it appears go does not understand warnings. I have never seen them 22:12 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@i577AE5E2.versanet.de] has left #go-nuts [] 22:13 < pure_x01> it feels like it is negative to productivity that when i just temporarily comment out something i also have to go up to the top of the file to comment out the import and then compile.. normally this is done to revert to the last known working state .. 22:14 < damjan> tor7: any charset is a subset of unicode, what you ment is latin-1 bytes expanded to 4bytes is also valid UCS-4 22:14 < happy_> pure_x01: I have had the same issue many times 22:14 -!- travalas_ [n=travalas@203.112.203.211] has joined #go-nuts 22:14 < pure_x01> happy_: hopefully it is something that they will change.. do you know if there is an issue submitted on this? 22:15 < tor7> damjan: correct. latin 1 codes are the same as the equivalent unicode codes is what I meant. 22:15 < happy_> I don't know 22:18 -!- cc_br [n=caio@201-11-160-103.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 22:19 -!- Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:21 -!- crazy2be [n=justin@d205-206-133-182.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:21 < rog_> pure_x01: it means you can look at any go module that compiles and know that all the dependencies are real 22:22 -!- Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #go-nuts 22:25 < pure_x01> rog_: In other languages there are tools that do that for you. But you got a point but is this feature really worth the price of reducing productivity. I would be possible to just have a warning and then trust the programmers to do the right thing. 22:25 -!- Wi11 [n=william@dhcp-0-14-bf-38-80-9c.cpe.powergate.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:25 -!- Wi11 [n=william@dhcp-0-14-bf-38-80-9c.cpe.powergate.ca] has joined #go-nuts 22:28 -!- travalas [n=travalas@123.49.42.26] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:28 -!- selby_fiedler [n=selby_fi@70-1-153-150.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:29 -!- peppers [n=peppers@87.196.49.139] has joined #go-nuts 22:29 < sebastiandeutsch> rog_: at least it makes it difficult to learn the language, because you have to play lego with your code blocks. 22:30 < rog_> i think there should probably be a compiler option to turn off the error 22:31 < rog_> but if it's just modules declarations you have a problem with, it's easy enough to put in a dummy function with a reference to the module. then you've got no further problems. 22:31 < pure_x01> i do not know of any well known language that treat unused stuff as errors 22:31 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["throng to learn what the heck unity3d does"] 22:31 < pure_x01> s/language/compiler 22:33 < taruti> making the spurious import a warning would be nice 22:33 < Kashia> well, it does force you to have clean code... 22:33 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:34 < taruti> Kashia: well clean code emits no warnings, but when commenting things out when developing that is very annoying 22:35 < trevor> I agree with taruti, I've hit this several times 22:35 < Kashia> otoh, you see at one glance if you are in debugging mode (log module not uncommented) 22:36 < trevor> More often with variables. Say I comment out the a line that uses a variable just to test something 22:36 < trevor> Then I try to build and I get an unused error 22:36 < peppers> maybe the compilers could have a no-force-clean flag? 22:36 -!- exch [n=nuada@h144170.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit ["nipples rock"] 22:37 < sebastiandeutsch> If you are very secure using the language, you probably appreciate this feature. But as a go-noob it is really annoying. In the beginning you need to be a little messy. 22:38 < trevor> I am a go noob and in the process of writing my first few programs I hit the unused error several times 22:38 < Kashia> the package seperation annoyed me a little. makes for clear separation, but it sure prevents one from being messy ;) 22:38 < trevor> Just from temporarily commenting a line 22:38 < pure_x01> anyone knows what the max linelenth of gofmt is.. it does not obey the magic 80 column .. 22:40 < trevor> "Go has no line length limit. Don't worry about overflowing a punched card. If a line feels too long, wrap it and indent with an extra tab." 22:40 < trevor> http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html 22:41 -!- peppers_ [n=peppers@87-196-196-136.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:42 < pure_x01> trevor: thanx 22:42 < pure_x01> i have this code http://gopaste.org/view/QqUom that gofmt insist on turing to one single row that is longer than 80 chars :-( 22:43 < cc_br> hi all 22:43 < cc_br> is it possible to call a Go function from C code ? That way I would be able to use a Go function as a callback ... 22:44 < taruti> cc_br: you *can* do that, but not easily at the moment. 22:44 < cc_br> hmm.. ok, thx :) 22:46 < taruti> cc_br: pipes are one way to do it 22:47 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:48 -!- adiabatic [n=adiabati@dsl-206-55-130-248.tstonramp.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:49 -!- usa [n=usa@pool-71-116-81-237.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:51 -!- sinuhe [n=user@kaptah.deevans.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:51 -!- rog_ [n=rog@89.241.197.228] has quit [] 22:53 -!- callidus [n=quassel@cpc2-newc1-0-0-cust1524.gate.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:04 -!- pure_x01 [n=pure@c83-248-3-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["note to self: sleep"] 23:05 -!- encolpe [n=encolpe@gai69-3-82-235-15-3.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:15 -!- r2p2 [n=billy@v32671.1blu.de] has left #go-nuts [] 23:17 -!- ehird [n=ehird@91.104.236.31] has joined #go-nuts 23:17 < ehird> Should I be using -r release or the latest hg commit? 23:20 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [] 23:21 -!- Wiz126 [n=Wiz126@24.115.240.60.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:22 < trevor> ehird: I use the latest and it works fine 23:22 < trevor> The website recomends -r release 23:22 < ehird> Good enough for me. 23:22 < ehird> When was the last release, anyway? 23:23 < trevor> r=release.2010-01-05 23:23 < trevor> Thats the latest 23:24 < ehird> Eh. Quite recent, but if the latest works, no reason not to. 23:24 < trevor> It doesn't seem that release is the same as release.2010-01-05 23:24 < trevor> I'm not sure when the release tag was made 23:25 < ehird> Query the revision with hg? 23:25 < trevor> release is from Nov 10 23:31 < cc_br> taruti: i managed to implement the callback using goroutines and shared memory. Dirty hack but it works well =) thx 23:31 -!- ShadowIce [n=pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:31 < taruti> cc_br: you *are* using some kind of mutex there hopefully :) 23:33 < cc_br> taruti 23:33 < cc_br> oops 23:33 < cc_br> taruti: yep 23:39 < ehird> Huh, semicolons are inserted automatically after every statement now. That's new, right? 23:39 < ehird> It didn't use to be like that. 23:40 < trevor> Yeah, the compiler automatically does that 23:41 < adiabatic> compiler, or gofmt? 23:41 < ehird> trevor: yes, but the last time I used Go it wasn't true 23:41 < trevor> You almost never need to type a semicolon, unless you are in a for or something 23:42 < ehird> trevor: Yes. I know that. 23:42 < ehird> But I used Go right after it came out. 23:42 < ehird> Back then, you could just omit the last semicolon in a block. 23:42 < ehird> Am I mistaken? 23:43 < trevor> No, you can indeed leave out semicolons now 23:44 < ehird> Thanks. 23:47 < plexdev> http://is.gd/627bR by [Charles L. Dorian] in go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: Sqrt using 386 FPU. 23:50 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@p4FE74B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:50 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@p4FE74B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:52 < CodeBlock> is it possible to get the Go compiler to run on netbsd? Is gccgo an option, if not? 23:53 -!- baddog [n=baddog@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #go-nuts 23:54 < ehird> CodeBlock: I think someone was working on that. 23:54 < CodeBlock> hm. 23:57 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["throng to learn what the heck unity3d does"] 23:58 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:58 -!- mpl [n=mpl@213.251.175.204] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:59 -!- sinuhe [n=user@174-23-128-117.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:59 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:59 -!- Ryan_ [n=ryan@cpe-98-27-182-138.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts --- Log closed Mon Jan 11 00:00:07 2010