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00:22 < zlu> ntome: thanks it builds fine just doesn't pass all tests.  i'm
learning go now :)
00:23 < ntome> zlu: I got caught by a problem of the same kind when
building, 3 days ago ;)
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04:50 < anticw> iant: gccgo's runtime has 1:1 goroutines:threads ...  was
that done to make things easier for now or deliberately for other reasons?
04:50 <+iant> easier for now
04:50 <+iant> I may move to adopt the 6g/8g runtime, although it would be a
lot of work
04:50 < anticw> there are arguments on N:M modles (mostly against) but it's
not clear those apply to 6g/8g
04:50 < anticw> actually, a unified runtime would be nice
04:51 < anticw> as well as a unified ABI
04:51 <+iant> a unified ABI is quite unlikely, gccgo will use the standard
ABI for whatever target is being compiled
04:52 < anticw> iant: well, it's not clear why 6g/8g (esp.  6g w/ more
registers) has to use the stack for all parameters long term
04:52 <+iant> true
04:52 < anticw> it seems it's more about making the implementation easier
for now in the compiler
04:53 < anticw> iant: what are the main difficulties in using the *g runtime
with gccgo?
04:53 <+iant> the *g runtime is designed to standalone, whereas gccgo
intends to link against the system libc
04:54 <+iant> the *g runtime uses assembler code written in a syntax which
gccgo doesn't support
04:54 < anticw> iant: i dont see why you have to link against libc long
term, my assumption is 'other runtimes' don't always
04:54 < anticw> cmucl and perhaps mono for example
04:55 <+iant> I want it to be easy to link gccgo-generated code with other
code
04:55 <+iant> I want gccgo to be more easily portable
04:56 < anticw> what about a common gc?
04:56 <+iant> we should certainly have a common gc
04:57 <+iant> both compilers already use the same malloc code
04:57 < anticw> actually, speaking of which...  *alloc right now mmap's in
pages...  is there a 'clean' way to implement a specific 'aligned allocator'?
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04:58 <+iant> we could easily add something to the malloc package, if I
understand what you are asking
04:58 < anticw> or even an allocator that using a file as a backing store?
i can fudge this with unsafe at some level, but it would be nice to have something
that would work with gc
04:58 < anticw> well, there are two issues (1) sometimes you need aligned
pages (2) sometimes i want file-backed arrays/data
04:58 <+iant> I'm not sure gc is going to play well with file-based data
04:59 <+iant> that seems like something to handle outside of the gc system
04:59 <+iant> at least to me
04:59 < anticw> it's not file based though, not really
04:59 < anticw> it's just something to munmap ones it's free
04:59 < anticw> once
04:59 < anticw> you can drop the fd onces you mmap
05:00 < anticw> aligned pages could come directly from the existing
low-level code but can't have any metadata or anything ahead of them, and it would
be desirable to have them done efficiently as possible (this is for direct IO, so
you can have 10k+ of them in flight)
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05:04 < anticw> iant: do you grok ken's sudoaddable optimization change?
05:04 <+iant> I didn't really look at it
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05:14 < anticw> iant: i dont support there is a dalvik back-end for gcc?
05:14 <+iant> no, sorry
05:15 < anticw> i'm not even sure if that would be entirely workable as a
plan, it's not clear to me how apps and the rest of the system interact
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05:37 < spikebike> seems possible
05:37 < spikebike> ok hrm, nevermind
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05:37 < spikebike> can gcc produce java bytecodes?
05:38 < spikebike> or just native bins for the configured cpu
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05:40 < anticw> there was a java backend project some time ago, i think it's
likely dead
05:40 <+iant> I think it's dead
05:40 < kfx> here's hoping
05:40 <+iant> gcc can compile Java byte code to native code
05:40 < skelterjohn> gcc can do anything
05:41 < skelterjohn> I think I'll ask it to cook me dinner tomorrow night
05:41 < anticw> iant: stating the obvious, i think the reason people are
asking as was i was for android
05:41 <+iant> yeah
05:41 < anticw> if you want ui apps or anything in the 'store it has to be a
dalvik binary
05:41 < spikebike> seems like kind of a strange thign to do
05:41 < anticw> for me i would probably be ok with a hacked phone and native
code from 5g, but i have no idea what the UI interfaces are
05:41 < spikebike> anticw: actually I don't think that's true
05:42 < spikebike> you have have native binaries
05:42 < anticw> those might not be something you can do with a pipe from
go/c/whatever, you might need a lot of java/core support
05:42 < anticw> spikebike: i dont see how, you can't sandbox native code
that easily
05:43 < anticw> well, i guess there are things like nacl or the task mode
where all comms goes over a socket and no other syscalls work
05:44 < spikebike> there is a native SDK
05:44 < spikebike> and I've seen folks include extra libraries and the like
05:45 < spikebike> not sure what they do, maybe they wget new binaries or
something
05:45 < spikebike> qualcomm has a native 3d benchmark in the market
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05:50 < spikebike>
http://groups.google.com/group/android-ndk/browse_thread/thread/7bdfd25f3bd60889?pli=1
05:50 < spikebike> that's from the android faq
05:51 < spikebike> various hacks to android are possible with root, once you
have root you can install all kinds of cool stuff from the market
05:51 < spikebike> even new operating systems
05:51 < spikebike> almost like a real linux box ;-)
05:52 < anticw> oh, that's good to know ...  i wonder if that was always the
case?  the java/dalvik only assumption actually came out of something someone
@google told me
05:53 < anticw> spikebike: so the next question then i would have is at what
level are the interfaces to render things and talk to phone functions?
05:58 < spikebike> I think it's mostly just designed for CPU intensive, I
think you can get a pointer to a full screen frame buffer and to the opengl side
05:58 < spikebike> but all the rest is supposed to go through dalvik
05:58 < spikebike> so the gui is 100% java
06:00 < spikebike> but I believe dalik is similar to jvm in that you can't
do many things that are legal with C
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07:19 < frem> Is it possible to find a '(' character in a string using the
regexp package right now?
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09:04 < vegai> frem: r, err := regexp.Compile("\\(");
09:04 < vegai> something like that?
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09:37 < LuitvD> hi
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10:35 < LuitvD> it's gonna be less Go for me, from now on
10:36 < LuitvD> for about 2 months
10:36 < alus> why?
10:36 < LuitvD> internship for a company working with python
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10:38 < LuitvD> need to dig up my django skills
10:39 < LuitvD> once that job is done I can get back to Go I guess...
10:39 < LuitvD> (of course I will still make some fun stuff in Go, but
nothing big)
10:40 * LuitvD is wondering if anyone has used my cairo binding for Go already
10:40 < LuitvD> maybe extended it
10:41 < cworth> LuitvD: I talked to both Jamey Sharp and Keith Packard about
integrating your stuff with xgb.
10:42 < cworth> LuitvD: They both agree it should be possible (or even
easy).  Unfortunately, Jamey's not got computer access for the next couple of
weeks.
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10:42 < LuitvD> cworth: awesome
10:42 < LuitvD> I'm envious
10:43 < LuitvD> any hints on which side it should come from?
10:43 < LuitvD> (will there be some sort of cairo-xgb, or does the Go side
need modification?)
10:43 < cworth> Not really, sorry.
10:43 < LuitvD> aww :(
10:43 < LuitvD> then I'll have to be patient :P
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14:59 < wrtp> test
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15:06 < wrtp> i'd appreciate it if someone could try out my godoc server and
tell me if it's working.  http://morgy.homeip.net:6060/
15:07 < Daminvar> It's working.
15:07 < wrtp> also see if you can get it to fail to find a type, when
clicking on any identifier or selector field
15:07 < wrtp> (that's the main difference here)
15:08 < Daminvar> Erm, what do you mean?  All of the links seem to work...
15:09 < wrtp> basically any type name or variable name should be clickable -
and take you to either the definition of the variable or its type as appropriate
15:09 < wrtp> try browsing some source code
15:10 < wrtp> it has to do more work for some variables than others -
depending on how long and involved the type inference chain is
15:11 < Daminvar> Hm, well I tried it out and it seems to be working.  It
only works on the Go files, but that's probably intentional.
15:11 < wrtp> yup
15:11 < wrtp> cool
15:11 < wrtp> it should work when browsing package documentation too
15:12 < wrtp> and clicking on a package identifier takes you back into the
documentation
15:12 < wrtp> it needs as much testing as it can get!
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15:13 < wrtp> one of the nice things is that it knows about unnamed struct
members, so clicking on the "Func" in x.Func() will take you to the right
definition even if it's buried 5 levels deep
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15:14 < wrtp> thanks for trying it
15:14 < Daminvar> Cool.  =) Glad I could be of service.
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16:58 < zeroXten> any reason why i would be getting "bad file descriptor" on
a WriteString?
16:58 < zeroXten> opened as O_APPEND|O_CREAT which created an empty file,
but can't write data to it
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17:02 < wrtp> zeroXten: what perm did you give?  and what's your umask?
17:03 < zeroXten> perm was 0660, umask is 0022...  the empty file looks ok
on the file system..  the user running the go app can happily echo something into
the file
17:04 < wrtp> hmm
17:05 < wrtp> can you reproduce the problem in a small piece of code?
17:05 < wrtp> maybe you're using it after it's been closed?
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20:30 < LuitvD> girlfriend laughing at the fact that Facebook's master
password was "Chuck Norris": priceless
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20:33 < hochron> howd you find that out LuitvD?
20:34 < LuitvD> scrolled across the slashdot article
20:34 < LuitvD> in my feed reader
20:34 < hochron> ok
20:34 < LuitvD>
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/01/21/179242/Facebook-Master-Password-Was-Chuck-Norris?from=rss
20:35 < LuitvD> told her and she lolled :)
20:35 <+iant> what's funny about that as the master password?
20:35 < LuitvD> turning her into a nerd slowly but surely
20:36 < LuitvD> never heard any Chuck Norris jokes?
20:36 <+iant> you think those are jokes?
20:36 <+iant> you have much to learn
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20:37 < LuitvD> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Norris_facts
20:37 < LuitvD> Wikipedia thinks they're "satirical factoids"
20:37 < LuitvD> which can be funny
20:38 < LuitvD> satire is mostly to be funny, right?
20:39 < LuitvD> even Chuck Norris himself thinks some are humorous
20:39 < LuitvD> enough to be jokes?
20:40 * LuitvD now begins to doubt the seriousness of iant's remarks
20:40 <+iant> I admit it: I'm just joking myself; part of the joke is to
pretend that they are not jokes
20:40 * LuitvD sits down
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20:41 < skelterjohn> deadpanning is hard to get across online
20:41 * LuitvD sees the "why so serious" shot of "The Dark Knight" appear in his
head
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21:19 < napsy> Hello.  Is there a libuuid binding for go?
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21:19 < skelterjohn> check http://go-lang.cat-v.org
21:19 < napsy> ok
21:20 < skelterjohn> it does a good job at keeping track of all 3rd party
libraries
21:20 < skelterjohn> as long as the author advertises them in some visible
way
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22:47 < napsy> How can I block the main thread while other threads are still
running?
22:50 < skelterjohn> need more context
22:50 < skelterjohn> you want the main thread to wait for some others to
complete?
22:51 < napsy> yes
22:51 < skelterjohn> what is the condition that should cause the main thread
to stop blocking?
22:52 < napsy> a boolean value was set to false
22:53 < skelterjohn> ah - don't communicate by sharing
22:53 < skelterjohn> use a channel
22:53 < skelterjohn> if there is a known number of threads that main is
waiting for, have them all write something to a channel
22:53 < skelterjohn> and have main try to read that many things from the
channel
22:54 < skelterjohn> once it has read them all, it knows all those threads
are done
22:54 < napsy> hm that's a good idea
22:54 < napsy> will try that, thanks
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22:58 < LuitvD> after that: read the Tutorial :P
22:58 < napsy> ok
22:58 < LuitvD> that idea is a 1:1 copy of a tutorial idea :)
22:58 < LuitvD> and it has more like that one
22:58 < skelterjohn> if i were writing a paper i would have cited the
tutorial ;)
22:58 < skelterjohn> but i'm talking in irc so i get to pretend like i
thought of it
22:59 < LuitvD> I know :)
22:59 < LuitvD> that's why I'm here
22:59 < happy> How do you convert strings to bytes?
22:59 < LuitvD> I'm gone now
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23:12 < happy> also, how do you test if a key exists in a map?
23:12 < skelterjohn> _, included := theMap[theKey]
23:13 < skelterjohn> s.([]byte) might work for strings->bytes...not sure
23:13 < skelterjohn> import "strings"
23:13 < KirkMcDonald> skelterjohn: No.
23:13 < skelterjohn> strings.Bytes(theString)
23:14 < KirkMcDonald> skelterjohn: Becayse strings are immutable.
23:14 < KirkMcDonald> Because*
23:14 < KirkMcDonald> Yes, that.
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23:15 < happy> is there a way to test if a map exists in an if statement?
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23:16 < skelterjohn> what does that mean?
23:16 < happy> skelterjohn: if map[key].exists() {
23:17 < skelterjohn> if _ included := theMap[theKey]; included { ...  }
23:17 < happy> interesting...
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23:18 < happy> I did not know you could do that
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23:18 < skelterjohn> convenient for the class of functions that return (val,
ok)
23:19 < happy> yeah
23:19 < happy> I am not sure if I said this yet.  But I wish I could treat
return values like a slice or something
23:19 < happy> like if theMap[theKey][1]
23:20 < happy> that would be useful in alot of cases
23:20 < skelterjohn> problem is they'd ahve to all be the same type
23:20 < skelterjohn> i suggested theMap[theKey]_1 at some point
23:20 < happy> skelterjohn: or maybe you could do some type of syntax
23:20 < skelterjohn> or for named return values, theMap[theKey]_theName
23:20 < happy> skelterjohn: that works too
23:20 < KirkMcDonald> Not necessarily.
23:21 < KirkMcDonald> That is, it would be possible to reuse the subscript
syntax for this purpose.
23:21 < happy> skelterjohn: I do not care the exact syntax.  But that would
be useful
23:21 < happy> KirkMcDonald: do you think this is "against what go is"
23:21 < KirkMcDonald> happy: What I want are tuples.
23:22 < happy> ok
23:22 < skelterjohn> one of the go "ideas" is to go for "streamlined" before
"feature-rich"
23:22 < skelterjohn> what i suggest would be a nice feature, imo, but they
need to draw the line somewhere
23:22 < happy> there are some things that are just convienent
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23:22 < skelterjohn> and sometimes writing things in two lines instead of
one is just the way to do it
23:23 < happy> skelterjohn: I do not like that attitude :-P
23:23 < happy> g2g
23:23 < skelterjohn> the first thing or the second thing
23:23 < happy> I will post something about this on golang-nuts later
23:23 < happy> the second thing
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23:23 < skelterjohn> sometimes things are clearer if you spread them out a
bit
23:23 < skelterjohn> even if it takes longer to type
23:23 < happy> however, I don't like the first thing either
23:24 < skelterjohn> ternary operators, for instance
23:24 < skelterjohn> and if you want an example of things that can go wrong
when a language tries to be feature-rich, look at C++
23:24 < skelterjohn> understanding how C++ works, *really* understanding it,
is *really* hard
23:24 < happy> skelterjohn: and sometimes it makes it less cleaner.  For
example.  The map example would be much cleaner.
23:24 < happy> ok
23:24 < skelterjohn> "cleaner" is a word people sometimes confuse with
"concise"
23:24 < skelterjohn> i hold that they are not necessarily the same
23:25 < happy> I like concise
23:25 < happy> anyway.  I really need to go
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23:26 < KirkMcDonald> skelterjohn: There are quite a lot of parts to C++.
It is possible to "really" understand one part while being fuzzy on others.
23:26 < skelterjohn> sure
23:26 < skelterjohn> and it's certainly not a problem to write effective C++
code
23:26 < skelterjohn> because you can ignore many of the features
23:26 < skelterjohn> but woe to the person who has to maintain that compiler
:)
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 22 00:00:48 2010