--- Log opened Sat Jun 25 00:00:54 2011
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00:08 < chomp> who who the hell is glenda?  :)
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00:08 < chomp> have rio up and running in vbox btw
00:08 < chomp> after much ado, and without networking (so far)
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00:14 < str1ngs> http://glenda.cat-v.org/
00:14 < chomp> aha!
00:14 < chomp> it has a name.
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00:56 < skelterjohn> captchas are too hard, sometimes
00:57 < skelterjohn> i just can't read what this freaking thing says
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01:16 < exch> That's kindof the point :)
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01:16 < exch> I guess the idea is, if a human can read, then so can a
computer program.  Solution is not 'invent a better lockout system', but just
'make it more difficult to read'
01:20 < skelterjohn> well
01:20 < skelterjohn> i am a robot
01:20 < exch> D:
01:20 < skelterjohn> so it's working
01:20 < exch> you should have an asterisk nest to your name then
01:20 < skelterjohn> it won't let me
01:20 < exch> bummer
01:21 < skelterjohn> thanks for making glfw available, btw.  made a
potentially irritating task very easy.
01:23 < exch> np.  glad its useful tosomeone else but me
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01:33 <@adg> uriel: thanks
01:36 < skelterjohn> adg: one might almost think you two were on different
sides of the world
01:36 < skelterjohn> with the irc tag you play
01:37 <@adg> :)
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01:55 < smw> What is the most idiomatic go way to make a slice with a size
of 0 and cap of 10,000.
01:55 < skelterjohn> make([]int, 0, 10000)
01:55 < skelterjohn> either that or make([]int, 10000, 0)
01:55 < smw> thanks :-)
01:55 < skelterjohn> i can never remember
01:56 < smw> fair enough
01:56 < smw> thanks
01:56 < Namegduf> The former
01:56 < skelterjohn> make([]int, 1000)[:0] works too
01:56 < smw> ok
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01:56 < Namegduf> 0 is size, by default cap equals it, but you can make it
bigger.
01:57 < smw> I am playing with go again.  It has been a while
01:57 < skelterjohn> wb
01:57 < smw> thanks :-)
01:57 < Namegduf> skelterjohn has a good point; why do we have the form with
size/cap separated when we can slice?
01:57 < Namegduf> We could avoid the optional parameterness.
01:57 < skelterjohn> it's the kind of thing that if it didn't exist, and
were suggested, would be rejected
01:58 < skelterjohn> if i were doing the suggesting, anyway
01:58 < smw> skelterjohn, is go stable yet?
01:58 < skelterjohn> depends on what you mean by stable
01:58 < smw> skelterjohn, is it likely my code will stop compiling again?
01:58 < skelterjohn> is it likely to crash?  no.  does the core library
still change from release to release?  yes
01:58 < smw> the second was what I was afraid of
01:58 < smw> lol
01:58 < Namegduf> There is gofix, which attempts to assist
01:58 < smw> ok
01:58 < skelterjohn> for small things, yeah
01:58 < Namegduf> But really, if you're not up to update a fair bi
01:59 < Namegduf> *bit, then yeah.
01:59 < skelterjohn> the moment we decide the code library can't change is
the moment we start gathering cruft
02:00 < smw> skelterjohn, I am currently making a prime number generator to
remember the basics :-)
02:00 < skelterjohn> that's what i always have people do when i'm teaching
them to code
02:00 < skelterjohn> it's what my dad had me do when he taught me...
02:01 < skelterjohn> i sad there for like 30 minutes trying to come up with
a formula to generate primes
02:01 < skelterjohn> sad = sat
02:01 < smw> skelterjohn, I recently implemented prime number generator in
python, C, and java.  Then I compared the speeds :-).
02:01 < smw> skelterjohn, now I can add go to the list
02:02 < smw> skelterjohn, is there a foreach loop?
02:02 < skelterjohn> for index, value := range aSlice { ...  }
02:03 < smw> ok
02:03 < smw> thanks
02:03 < smw> skelterjohn, that is an annoying syntax.  Python and java have
better ones :-P
02:04 < smw> although...  I like the index part :-)
02:04 < skelterjohn> in go you can range over a number of different things
02:04 < skelterjohn> i don't find the syntax annoying.  of course, this is
pretty subjective.
02:05 < smw> yeah
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02:16 < smw> Is this the most idiomatic way to append to a slice?  Any one
liners?  http://paste.pocoo.org/show/418727/
02:16 < skelterjohn> theSlice = append(theSlice, theItem)
02:17 < smw> skelterjohn, append is a global function?
02:17 < skelterjohn> built-in
02:17 < skelterjohn> yeah
02:17 < smw> ok
02:17 < skelterjohn> it will allocate a new array if the slice you give it
doesn't have enough capacity
02:17 < skelterjohn> otherwise it returns the same slice
02:18 < smw> sweet
02:18 < smw> skelterjohn, was that around a year ago?
02:18 < skelterjohn> nope
02:19 < skelterjohn> earlier this year
02:19 < smw> nice addition :-)
02:19 < skelterjohn> it's useful, yeah
02:19 < smw> skelterjohn, still not as easy as x.append() in python :-P
02:20 < skelterjohn> it kind of is
02:20 < skelterjohn> in python i do x += [y] though, instead of x.append(y)
02:20 < smw> I have to write the slice twice!  lol
02:20 < skelterjohn> i don't know if that's bad form or not
02:20 < skelterjohn> smw: not if you are certain the slice has enough
capacity O:-)
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02:23 < htoothrot> it needlessly creates a new list only to throw it away
after x is extended
02:23 < smw> htoothrot, what?
02:23 < skelterjohn> not if the compiler is clever
02:23 < skelterjohn> same with things like "for x in range(10):"
02:23 < smw> hopefully the implementation will allocate more space than
needed...
02:24 < htoothrot> i'm speaking of the python line
02:24 < skelterjohn> when i'm sure python will just count there
02:24 < htoothrot> range(10) create the whole list in 2.x, and the
equivalent of xrange(10) in 3.x
02:24 < skelterjohn> since it can do for x in range(100000) without farting
02:25 < skelterjohn> what's xrange?
02:25 < htoothrot> it lazily yields the numbers
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02:27 < kevlar> #python <- this.conversation
02:27 < htoothrot> heh...  right :)
02:27 < kevlar> ;-)
02:28 * kevlar idly wonders if there is a ##lang-design
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02:32 < skelterjohn> well, i'm glad they fixed that in 3.x
02:34 < skelterjohn> i wonder if anyone started using it
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03:13 < smw> skelterjohn, final result.  Go was faster than java but slower
than C.
03:14 < smw> skelterjohn, about half way inbetween.  Although, gccgo may be
faster...
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03:58 < jessta> f
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09:00 < zippoxer> google codesearch doesn't find go code?
09:00 < zippoxer> lang:^java$ shows java code, but lang:^go$ shows nothing.
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09:41 < xyproto> How can I display pdf-files in a browser using Go? The
imagemagick "convert" command can convert .pdf files to .png, but appengine does
not support that.  Write my own?
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10:06 < Namegduf> xyproto: You'd either need to find a pure Go library to do
it, or write one.
10:11 < skelterjohn> most browsers just support pdf...
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10:20 < xyproto> skelterjohn: do they?  in such a way that you can annotate
pdfs and add comments, like you could with a html5 canvas?
10:20 < skelterjohn> i dunno - i just know that opening a pdf in my browser
works
10:21 < xyproto> skelterjohn: yes, opening a pdf in the browser works, just
like downloading a file and displaying it works, but then it's out of programmatic
reach
10:22 < xyproto> skelterjohn: I did find a ok-ish solution, though.  I can
have a server that just converts pdf to png with imagemagic, and transmits the
result back to the webapp written in Go...
10:24 < xyproto> skelterjohn: there's also a brand new attempt at writing a
pdf viewer in javascript that might work out:
http://andreasgal.com/2011/06/15/pdf-js/
10:24 < skelterjohn> cool
10:25 < xyproto> skelterjohn: anyway, I guess I'm just spoiled when it comes
to having a hurd of libraries and utils readily available, compared to the
combination of Go and appengine, which is more frugal
10:26 < skelterjohn> think of it as an opportunity to contribute :)
10:27 < xyproto> skelterjohn: I checked out the source for imagemagick, but
it seems like an enormous task to port it (or just the relevant parts) to Go
10:27 < skelterjohn> i'm not surprised - pdf is a corporate format
10:27 < aiju> an evil capitalist format
10:27 < aiju> to support the bourgousie
10:28 < xyproto> :D
10:28 < xyproto> Agree, pdf is not as free and open as it could be
10:28 < xyproto> But it's pretty universal, at least
10:28 < aiju> pdf is insane
10:28 < aiju> i should create a pdf with my javascript pdp-11 emulator
10:28 < xyproto> And from a user point of view, pdf if quite dependable.  It
opens and looks pretty much the same everywhere.
10:28 < Namegduf> Open source PDF rendering is probably pretty unusual
anyway.
10:29 < aiju> xyproto: true.
10:29 < Namegduf> In any languag.e
10:29 < xyproto> At some point or another Go would need a pdf library, so I
could just as well start a github project, I guess
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10:49 < xyproto> Okay, I've started porting poppler to Go. It's a library
for rendering PDFs.  https://github.com/xyproto/gopoppler
10:49 < xyproto> I'll hand out commit access to anyone interested
10:50 < xyproto> There are no pdf packages from before, judging by the Go
Package Dashboard
10:56 < xyproto> aiju: what is your github name?  :]
10:56 < aiju> i'm not on github
10:57 < xyproto> aiju: aw :/ Why not?
10:58 < xyproto> aiju: du you have another preferred
source-code-collaboration site?
10:58 < xyproto> *do
10:59 < xyproto> skelterjohn: what is a good build system for Go these days?
:)
11:00 < aiju> xyproto: all projects i have contributed to were on google
code
11:01 < xyproto> aiju: I see.
11:01 < xyproto> aiju: Seems like github and google code are the two most
popular ones among the Go-programming populace.
11:03 < aiju> i can register on github
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11:03 < aiju> github wants my moneez?
11:03 < aiju> wtf?
11:04 < zippoxer> nah u can get along without paying
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11:04 < aiju> okay, "aiju" is registered
11:04 < xyproto> aiju: they didn't want my moolah at the time I registered
11:05 < aiju> xyproto: yeah, seems to be for "private" repositories
11:05 < xyproto> aiju: cool, you're now one of the gang
11:05 < aiju> haha
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11:06 < aiju> hg pull ; hg update -r release updates Go, right?
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11:08 < xyproto> aiju: I think so.  Alternatively hg pull; hg update -C, but
the -r release might be better?
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12:02 < xyproto> Is there a utility that can convert classes in C++ to
structs + methods in Go? It does not have to be perfect, just as a helper for
porting code.
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12:05 < uriel> that is a very, very, bad idea
12:06 < uriel> 'porting' code is already generally a bad idea
12:06 < uriel> having a tool that takes c++ and tries to generate Go code
sounds like an even worse idea
12:07 < zippoxer> var error *string
12:07 < zippoxer> error = "whatever"
12:07 < uriel> there was (is?) a tool to translate C code to Limbo, and even
with a much simpler language like C which conceptuallyf its much better with
Limbo, I don't think it ever worked very well
12:07 < zippoxer> panics
12:08 < aiju> zippoxer: didn't we have that one recently?
12:08 < zippoxer> not me :)
12:08 < aiju> zippoxer: error := new(string); *error = "whatever"
12:08 < zippoxer> panics too.
12:08 < zippoxer> ohh
12:08 < zippoxer> sec
12:08 < xyproto> aiju: +1
12:09 < zippoxer> works but error is not nil even if I'm not assigning a
value for it
12:09 < xyproto> uriel: I think porting quality code that has been properly
tested and is widely used is a great idea
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12:10 < uriel> xyproto: languages just do not translate, certainly automatic
tranlation would negate any testing it might have benefited from before
12:10 < xyproto> uriel: see this page for a good example:
http://blog.kowalczyk.info/article/af1h/Experience-porting-4k-lines-of-C-code-to-go.html
12:10 < uriel> because the languages are conpletely different at the detal
level and at the high level design
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12:11 < uriel> xyproto: there is a reason why 1) that was done by hand 2)
many people consider it the wrong way to go about it, as an idiomatic Go version
designed and written from scratch would be much nicer
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12:12 < xyproto> uriel: One can use a helper-utility while converting by
hand and I disagree with those many people, as I do really think that some of the
quality of well tested C code will be possible to bring over to Go
12:13 < uriel> C code perhaps, C++, no
12:13 < xyproto> uriel: Yes, it's possible to write Go-code that is
completely different from C, but it's also possible to write code that is pretty
similar in style
12:13 < uriel> and again, an untility would help with the trivial stuff
which can just as easily be done by hand, it could not do things too reliably
anyway
12:13 < xyproto> uriel: C code, yes, and also C++ code that is written as if
it was C (which many people does, though I've never understood why they just
didn't write in C)
12:14 < aiju> std::sort hurr durr
12:14 < aiju> because they can't into sorting algorithms
12:15 < xyproto> There are also examples of successfull translation from one
language to another, like "shedskin" for Python to C++
12:15 < uriel> xyproto: for certain values of "successful"
12:16 < aiju> as successful goes to 0
12:16 < uriel> maybe a c2go tool could be written, I still find its value
very, very dubious as opposed to either binding with cgo or properly
re-implementing in idiomatic Go
12:16 < aiju> uriel: binding cgo is not possible on appengine
12:16 < uriel> aiju: that is a good point, and one more argument to
re-implement in Go ;P
12:16 < xyproto> uriel: the value would be most apparent in "sandboxed"
environments like appengine, as so many useful libraries are missing, IMO
12:17 < xyproto> aiju: exactly
12:17 < uriel> xyproto: what many useful libs are missing?
12:17 < aiju> xyproto needs libpoppler
12:17 < xyproto> uriel: anything that has to do with pdf files, for a start
12:17 * uriel very much doubts that any automatic translation tool could handle a
project of that size
12:18 < xyproto> uriel: I've started translating libpoppler manually, but it
would be much quicker to start from the result of some sort of c2go
12:19 < xyproto> uriel: if you're on github I can add you...  :)
12:19 < xyproto> one file down, 206 to go
12:21 < zippoxer> about the solution you gave me before, when I do error :=
new(string), error is not nil
12:21 < zippoxer> it's initialized string ("")
12:22 < zippoxer> * pointer to initialized string
12:22 < aiju> zippoxer: so what?
12:22 < zippoxer> I need it to be nil if I'm not assigning a value to it
12:22 < zippoxer> so when I put in into json.Marshal
12:22 < aiju> i don't get your problem
12:22 < zippoxer> it will convert to null
12:22 < zippoxer> instead of ""
12:22 < aiju> dereferencing a nil pointer is invalid
12:22 < aiju> period
12:22 < zippoxer> ur right
12:23 < zippoxer> so maybe
12:23 < zippoxer> e := "temporary error string"
12:23 < zippoxer> error = &e
12:23 < zippoxer> will work on a nil pointer?
12:23 < xyproto> zippoxer: var error *string = nil;
12:24 < zippoxer> yeah it works with the error = &e
12:24 < zippoxer> thanks
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13:16 < Slant> What is the best way to determine if/where an item is in a
vector?  (or array?)
13:17 < xyproto> Slant: for-loops
13:17 < Slant> xyproto: Thanks.
13:18 < Slant> Anything in the standard library for maintaining sorted
lists?
13:19 < exch> sort package
13:19 < exch> if that is what you mean :)
13:34 < aiju> for loops
13:34 < aiju> enough of them
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13:38 < GeertJohan> I'm going to install yet another eclipse+goclipse
setup..  But every time I do that I wonder whether I should pick the eclipse
classic or eclipse C/C++ variant.  Any thoughts/experiences?  (always used eclipse
classic for this, just wondering if C/C++ variant gives more options using go, or
if it is just useless C/C++ stuff on my HDD.  Running Kubuntu 11.04, 64-bit)
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14:00 < uriel> 13:16 < Slant> What is the best way to determine
if/where an item is in a vector?  (or array?)
14:00 < uriel> Slant: *do not use vectors*
14:00 < uriel> damn it, how many times does this ned to be sad?
14:00 < uriel> said, and sad
14:00 < aiju> container/* is really annoying
14:00 < GeertJohan> why not use vectors?
14:00 * uriel sighs and facepalms
14:01 < uriel> aiju: yes, I guess if we got vector removed, people would use
container/list instead *SIGH*
14:02 < GeertJohan> uriel, aiju: it's in there for a reason.
14:02 < aiju> yes, a reason which no longer applies
14:02 < uriel> GeertJohan: yes, to confuse and mislead people who don't know
better
14:03 < GeertJohan> well I'd agree with you, using maps and slices is
better..
14:03 < GeertJohan> most of the times..
14:03 < uriel> adg: conainer/vector and container/list really need a big
bold warning at the top of the docs saying: USE SLICES INSTEAD!
14:03 < GeertJohan> xD
14:03 < aiju> bold and flashing
14:03 < GeertJohan> in red
14:04 < aiju> or rather, put picture from ED's "Offended" page into the docs
14:04 < GeertJohan> but ehm, vector does have some stuff in it thats still
usefull
14:04 < uriel> no, seriously, I lost count of how many people fall into the
idiotic vector crap (and then they complain about generics *sigh*)
14:04 < uriel> pretty much every single new Go programmer I have seen has
fallen into it, it is really sad and annoying
14:05 < uriel> GeertJohan: I can't think of any case where I needed a vector
instead of a slice, hell, I don't think there is a single one in the whole Go
distribution
14:06 < uriel> I think we should get rid of vector and container/list should
get one big fat warning
14:06 < GeertJohan> ok so why is it not removed then ?
14:06 < uriel> i have no idea
14:07 < uriel> adg: would be nice to know why vector is still around at all
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14:14 < skelterjohn> xyproto: are you teasing me?  also i'm not sure why you
added me to the gopoppler project...
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14:34 < zozoR> "aiju> yes, a reason which no longer applies" aiju can you
explain that?  ^^
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14:48 < aiju> zozoR: there used to be a dreadful time without append()
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14:51 < zozoR> so append is the reason?
14:51 < aiju> skelterjohn: xyproto added everyone and their mother ;P
14:51 < aiju> zozoR: rather, the lack of it
14:52 < zozoR> ^^
14:53 < skelterjohn> i want to find the list of collaborators so i can see
exactly how cool i am
14:53 < skelterjohn> or at least, put a lower bound on my cool
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16:18 < exch> skelterjohn: you are on a Mac if I'm not mistaken?
16:18 < skelterjohn> at home, yes
16:18 < skelterjohn> skelterjohn|work is on linux
16:19 < exch> Someone messaged me on github about glfw not building on
macos.  Seems h has unresolved symbol errors against libglfw..  I thought it was
due to goinstall not dealing with #cgo tags, but he's using regular make
16:19 < exch> he does appear to haveglfw installed properly
16:20 < exch> Just wondering if you encountered something similar
16:20 < skelterjohn> at one point i got glfw working on this comp...let me
check
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16:21 < exch> He's getting stuff like
"/Developer/go/pkg/darwin_amd64/github.com/jteeuwen/glfw.a(glfw.cgo2.o)(TEXT/text):
glfwSetWindowTitle: not defined"
16:22 < skelterjohn> for some reason git pull isn't doing anything
16:22 < skelterjohn> but my local source differs from what i see on github
16:25 < skelterjohn> is he sure that libglfw is built for the same
architecture being linked?
16:26 < exch> I'm not sure..  Along with his pkg-config output, the above is
the only info I got so far
16:26 < skelterjohn> mac has this weirdness with 32bit vs 64bit
16:26 < skelterjohn> it seems to be both simultaneously
16:26 < exch> I told him to report it as an issue with some more details in
it.  Perhaps that will shed some light on things
16:26 < exch> All I know is that he installed glfw with macports
16:27 < skelterjohn> i just tried to build and got: ld: warning: ignoring
file /usr/local/lib/libglfw.a, file was built for archive which is not the
architecture being linked (x86_64)
16:27 < exch> ot sure what that is, but i'm assuming its ok
16:27 < exch> mm
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16:27 < skelterjohn> and the a billion undefined errors
16:27 < exch> sounds like what he might be having
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16:43 < exch> skelterjohn: could this be related?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/zyb1PDlqMLk
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16:59 < skelterjohn> exch: no - i have no problems linking frameworks
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16:59 < skelterjohn> besides that - the symbols in question come from
libglfw, not the opengl framework
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17:00 < exch> good point
17:00 < skelterjohn> though in the ML post there, they're the glfw symbols
17:00 < skelterjohn> i think russ got that one wrong
17:02 < exch> don't let him hear that!  :p
17:04 < skelterjohn> heh, he doesn't give me the "i'm never wrong, even when
i am" vibe
17:04 < skelterjohn> but i don't know that much about linking, so i might be
wrong, too
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17:05 < skelterjohn> maybe 6l can link go code to a framework directly, but
not when there is an intermediate libX.a file in between :)
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17:06 < skelterjohn> or maybe the problem has been since fixed
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17:09 < exch> difficult to say
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17:25 < crazy2be> hrph
17:25 < crazy2be> type Context C.JSContextRef
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17:26 < crazy2be> func (ctx Context) DoSomething() {}
17:26 < crazy2be> error: invalid receiver type Context (Context is a pointer
type)
17:27 < exch> that comes from the C.xxx() call inside DoSomething() I'm
guessing?
17:28 < crazy2be> exch: Difficult to say
17:28 < crazy2be> the line numbers don't correspond
17:28 < crazy2be> to anything
17:28 < exch> yea that is a bit annoying
17:28 < exch> but I recognize the error
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17:29 < exch> It wants a *C.JSContexxtRef as a parameter
17:29 < exch> s/xx/x/
17:29 < crazy2be> well, these javascript bindings had
C.JSContextRef(unsafe.Pointer(ctx)) in all the calls
17:29 < crazy2be> which seemed kinda silly to me
17:29 < crazy2be> exch: Like this?  type Context *C.JSContextRef
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17:30 < crazy2be> or am I missing your point?
17:30 < exch> the unsafe.Pointer bit is unnecessary
17:30 < exch> yea, or if that cuses other problems, give DoSomething() a
*Context receiver.  then cast ctx to *C.JS....
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17:32 < crazy2be> oooh
17:32 < crazy2be> "
17:32 < crazy2be> You cannot declare a method on another package's types.
17:32 < crazy2be> So for example you are not package os and cannot define
17:32 < crazy2be> a method on os.File.
17:32 < crazy2be> "
17:32 < crazy2be> --rsc
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17:32 < crazy2be> which is probably why that isn't working
17:32 < crazy2be> since C is another packge's type
17:33 < crazy2be> from
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/golang-nuts/error:$20invalid$20receiver$20type/golang-nuts/yNHvcBayTIs/075OK3HZMqUJ
17:35 < exch> C is not a package.  It's a special import construct
recognized by cgo
17:37 < crazy2be> well I can wrap it in a struct like so:
17:37 < crazy2be> type Context struct { ref C.JSContextRef }
17:37 < crazy2be> so then i just have to pass ctx.ref
17:38 < crazy2be> rather than call C.JSContextRef(unsafe.Pointer(ctx))
17:39 < exch> yea, that's what I do
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17:41 < skelterjohn> i think that you won't be able to define a method on a
type from "C" for the same reasons
17:42 < crazy2be> hrph, panic
17:42 < crazy2be> and no way to know what the line number is
17:42 < skelterjohn> if you pass the instance in an interface, the instance
tracks the original type.  when you pass it toanother package that expects the
interface to be satisfied, it looks up the original type and finds no methods
(because how would it know about the method you defined?)
17:43 < crazy2be> nice, not even the line numbers in the generated file are
right
17:44 < crazy2be> claims to be on line 925
17:44 < crazy2be> but there's only 65 lines
17:44 < skelterjohn> awesome
17:44 < aiju> haha
17:46 < exch> debugging cgo stuff is a nightmare
17:46 < aiju> -debugging -stuff
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17:47 < exch> its not that bad
17:47 < exch> except for the debugging
17:48 < crazy2be> I'm goona have to run some regexes through this thing
17:48 < crazy2be> <3 sed
17:48 < aiju> sed is the queen of text processing
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17:53 < crazy2be> gone from 'nil pointer dereference' to 'unexpected fault
0xffffffc8'
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17:56 < exch> at least there is progress
17:56 < crazy2be> exch: If you call that progress :P
17:57 < exch> progress in either direction is still progress ;)
17:58 < crazy2be> I blame the unsafe.Pointers everywhere
17:58 < aiju> i blame hitler
17:59 < crazy2be> type hitler unsafe.Pointer
17:59 < exch> that poor guy has been dead for almost a century
18:00 < crazy2be> now i'm forced to make a decision
18:00 < crazy2be> do I continue trying to remove unsafe.Pointers in the hope
that the fault will stop?
18:00 * exch flips a coin for crazy2be
18:00 < crazy2be> or do I attempt to fix it through other means
18:00 < crazy2be> exch: Heads or tails?
18:00 < exch> tails
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18:02 < crazy2be> ah, it's in TestFunctionWithCallback2()
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18:06 < crazy2be> hrpmh
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18:07 < crazy2be> t.Log() really aught to print messages as they are sent if
test.v is true
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18:45 < zombiezen> I already posted on go-nuts
(http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/8873a496fdb3f928),
but has anyone encountered problems with gopprof on their own programs?
18:46 < zombiezen> I then ran gopprof on the sample code in the blog post,
and it seems to work fine.
18:47 < zombiezen> I just keep getting addresses instead of function names.
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19:03 < crazy2be> zombiezen: Haven't used gopprof, sorry
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19:07 < zombiezen> Just found the problem!
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19:08 < zombiezen> Turns out, gopprof tries to use nm first before it uses
6nm.
19:09 < zombiezen> nm will succeed, so 6nm never got called and so none of
the addresses got resolved.
19:11 < crazy2be> uugh cgo is so ugly
19:11 < crazy2be> zombiezen: cool
19:12 < zombiezen> crazy2be: agreed
19:12 < zombiezen> re: cgo
19:13 < crazy2be> I'm having pointers crapping out all over the place
19:13 < crazy2be> reminicient of C++
19:14 < crazy2be> but the worst part is you don't get a proper call stack
anymore
19:14 < crazy2be> so you have to add fmt.Printf's manually all over the
place
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19:16 < zombiezen> Bleh, that sounds awful.
19:19 < crazy2be> what does type [0]uint8 mean?
19:19 < crazy2be> like it's a zero-length array
19:19 < crazy2be> but why would the type of something be a zero-length
array?
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19:22 < zombiezen> Is it a member of a struct?
19:22 < zombiezen> Particularly, is it the last member of a struct?
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19:27 < vsmatck> crazy2be: Not everyone agrees with the null pointer
existing.  Ironically Tony Hoare does not.  However, I think that the nil pointer
dereference problem goes away with practice.
19:28 < vsmatck> At least it's not a segmentation fault like in C++.  In Go
there is the possibility of recovering.
19:28 < crazy2be> vsmatck: Is [0]uint8 a null pointer?
19:28 < aiju> vsmatck: you can recover from a segfault
19:29 < crazy2be> zombiezen: I don't think so, it's a C.JSValueRef
19:29 * vsmatck leaves
19:29 < crazy2be> aiju: Not easily :P
19:29 < aiju> 21:32 < vsmatck> crazy2be: Not everyone agrees with the
null pointer existing.
19:29 < aiju> null pointer denial?
19:29 < smw> Go managed to solve the null pointer problem.  We have nil
pointers instead!
19:30 < crazy2be> yay!
19:30 < aiju> plan 9 already had nil pointers
19:31 < crazy2be> aiju: Yeah, yeah, plan9 had everything
19:31 < aiju> hahaha
19:31 < aiju> #define nil ((void*)0)
19:31 < aiju> in one of the headers
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19:35 < crazy2be> vsmatck: Null/nil pointer don't exist if you use
references!  :D
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19:43 < skelterjohn> i'm not exactly sure how you can deal without null
pointers
19:45 < jnwhiteh> skelterjohn: have any pointers to code to scan a list of
files for package declarations and dependencies?  Basically, we're looking to
build the output of gb -S
19:45 < Namegduf> The problem is that null pointers represent a valid
condition, "no object", that is often required.
19:45 < Namegduf> Linked lists being the stereotypical example.
19:45 < skelterjohn> wow i thought you were responding to my previous
statement
19:45 < jnwhiteh> I assume that's mostly
https://github.com/skelterjohn/go-gb/blob/master/gb/deps.go
19:45 < jnwhiteh> lol
19:45 < skelterjohn> i had to read all the way to the end before it made
sense
19:45 < skelterjohn> and yeah, deps.go takes care of that
19:46 < jnwhiteh> alright
19:46 < skelterjohn> feel free to copy/rip-off/adapt
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19:46 < skelterjohn> Namegduf: I think null pointers are only a real problem
if you have pointer arithmetic
19:47 < skelterjohn> in go, a nil is just shorthand for "nothing here"
19:47 < skelterjohn> it doesn't actually represent memory with address zero
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19:47 < skelterjohn> it so happens that the byte value of that data is
000000..00, but that's a coincidence
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20:00 < crazy2be> wwwwtf
20:00 < crazy2be> cannot use v.ref (type *_Ctypedef_JSValueRef) as type
*[0]uint8 in function argument
20:00 < crazy2be> I don't understand what a [0]uint8 would be used for
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20:05 < skelterjohn> it's what go uses instead of void* to describe
something it has trouble describing
20:06 < skelterjohn> basically, "a pointer to some data"
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20:08 < crazy2be> skelterjohn: then why the error?  Shouldn't any pointer
satisfy this void* type?
20:08 < skelterjohn> go doesn't do implicit type conversion :)
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20:09 < skelterjohn> to be honest i'm not sure why it's *[0]uint8 that pops
up
20:09 < skelterjohn> i just know that when i see it, if i *know* the data i
have is the right type, things work if i force the conversion
20:09 < skelterjohn> there might be a more appropriate thing to do, there
20:10 < skelterjohn> maybe ask the ML
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20:48 < jlaffaye> when are global initialized?
20:48 < aiju> in the init() function
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20:49 < aiju> i.e.  before main
20:49 < jlaffaye> even for packages, where some errors are assigned to
globals?
20:49 < jlaffaye> I have to read the spec related to init then :)
20:50 < aiju> they are executed in order of package dependencies
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21:14 < jnwhiteh> skelterjohn: I can has gb -bench?
21:15 < skelterjohn> sure, code it up
21:15 < jnwhiteh> =)
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21:23 < skelterjohn> jnwhiteh: i'm actually not sure why gb -t doesn't run
benchmarks right now - from the _testmain.go file generated it seems like it
should
21:23 < jnwhiteh> hrm
21:23 < jnwhiteh> don't spend too much time on it
21:25 < skelterjohn> well, someone reported an issue on github, so i've been
meaning to take a look
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21:28 < jlaffaye> var Incoming <-chan os.Signal
21:28 < jlaffaye> Strange, but can be useful ( I had no idea we can do that)
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21:31 < fenicks> hello
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21:33 < skelterjohn> hi
21:34 < crazy2be> hi
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22:03 < skelterjohn> hmm, template package seems to have changed since i've
last used it.  how do you tell it to use "{{", "}}" instead of "{", "}" now?
22:04 < TheMue> Doesn't SetDelims() still exist?
22:05 < skelterjohn> ah, so it does.  for some reason i was looking in the
constructor and wondering what a formattingmap was
22:05 < skelterjohn> thanks
22:06 < zombiezen> Yes
22:07 < TheMue> so, n8
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22:07 < zombiezen> I think the new {{ }} is in the exp/ directory
22:07 < zombiezen> Hooray for experimentation!
22:07 < skelterjohn> the new {{ }}?
22:08 < zombiezen> I think the new weekly had something about a new lexer
for template that used two braces.
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22:09 * uriel can't wait for the new regexp engine
22:09 < skelterjohn> you have plans for when it arrives?
22:10 < zombiezen> skelterjohn:
http://code.google.com/p/go/source/browse/src/pkg/exp/template/lex.go#190
22:10 < crazy2be> ugh I can see why these bindings were abandoned
22:10 < zombiezen> (for the template thing)
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22:10 < uriel> skelterjohn: yes, I will throw a party
22:11 < zombiezen> :D
22:12 < skelterjohn> this new one is without back references, right?
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22:18 < uriel> I have no idea, I don't care about backreferences, never had
any use for them
22:19 < aiju> backreferences are spawn of hell
22:19 < aiju> they break all kind of assumptions about regular expressions
22:19 < aiju> like that they are regular expressions
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22:20 < skelterjohn> yes - but they're plenty useful
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22:21 < uriel> in my experience only people that have been brain-damaged by
PCRE find backreferences all that useful
22:21 < skelterjohn> if they have a use for them, then they are useful
22:22 < skelterjohn> it's handier than loading up yacc
22:24 < skelterjohn> for templates, you can refer to the item you're
repeating over in a .repeated section with @.  what if, within there, you repeat
on something inside @?  do you refer to it as @.@?
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22:25 < crazy2be> ugh, please don't use HTML parsing as an example
application or regexes
22:25 < crazy2be> that would be regular-expressions.info/brackets.html
22:25 < aiju> using regexes in proper programs is already wrong
22:25 < crazy2be> talks about using regexes with backrefrerences for html
parsing
22:26 < crazy2be> aiju: Almost always
22:26 < aiju> there are exceptions
22:26 < crazy2be> very rare ones
22:26 < crazy2be> when I was more naive, I wrote a config file parser in C#
with regexes
22:26 < aiju> we all were that naive once
22:26 < crazy2be> that was not an exception
22:27 < skelterjohn> now that you know better, the task is much more
difficult?
22:27 < aiju> skelterjohn: try validating a regex
22:27 < skelterjohn> but at least you can do it "right"
22:27 < aiju> hell, try even READING a regex
22:27 < skelterjohn> that's sort of a different issue
22:27 < aiju> code which does the wrong thing in a few lines less is
valueless
22:28 < skelterjohn> that's sort of irrelevant :)
22:28 < aiju> haha
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22:28 < aiju> are you basically saying
22:28 < aiju> I DON'T MIND IF IT FUCKS UP
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22:28 < skelterjohn> nope
22:28 < crazy2be> regexes are most useful for find and replace I find
22:29 < crazy2be> like when I change a function name
22:29 < aiju> yeah
22:29 < crazy2be> or the arguments in a function
22:29 < aiju> regexps are tools
22:29 < aiju> not building parts
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22:29 < aiju> the "regexps are good for programs" mentality brought PCRE
22:29 < aiju> and perl
22:30 < crazy2be> what's wrong with that?  :D
22:30 < skelterjohn> it's a simple way to write a simple recursive parser
quickly
22:30 < skelterjohn> if you want to write something more heavy duty, use a
more heavy duty tool
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22:33 < uriel> aiju: PCRE has no mentality, it is delusionally schizophrenic
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22:33 < aiju> hahaha
22:33 < uriel> really, what the P stands for in PCRE should be more than
enough of a warning sign for everyone
22:33 < aiju> hahahaha
22:33 < aiju> Penisl
22:34 < aiju> *.
22:34 < crazy2be> uriel: Peril?
22:34 < aiju> but the [:digit:] stuff was POSIX, right?
22:36 < uriel> I don't know if PoSix added that crap, but it added the
locale stuff that toally broke all regexp using programs on linux
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22:36 < aiju> posix locales are madness
22:37 < uriel> (hint [a-z] matches X for utf-8 locales, words can't explain
how fucked up that is)
22:37 < aiju> you can't even get around it
22:37 < aiju> if you just set LANG to C, it'll have fun fucking up all your
utf-8
22:37 < uriel> the only way to get minimally sane and consistent behavior is
to set your locale to C, and then you are back in the stone age with out utf-8
22:37 < uriel> bleh, you beat me to it
22:38 < aiju> en_US.UTF-8 at least gives me utf-8
22:38 < aiju> instead of replacing all utf-8 by lots of question marks
22:38 < aiju> how fucked up is this
22:38 < uriel> yea, it just fucks up regexps, but who needs regexps when
using grep and sed anyway?
22:38 < uriel> (one more reason to stick with plan9port or 9base tools)
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22:39 < aiju> i never noticed that a-z crap
22:40 < crazy2be> why does it match X?
22:40 < aiju> because posix sucks
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22:41 < crazy2be> beyond that
22:41 < aiju> i don't think there is any deeper explanation
22:41 < crazy2be> like what's the programmatic reason?
22:41 < uriel> crazy2be: PoSix/gnu magically translate it into some
[::bullshit::
22:41 < uriel> ]
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22:41 < aiju> they want to match stuff like äöü
22:41 < uriel> the idioticy of doing that boggles the mind
22:41 < aiju> it doesn't even match kanji
22:41 < uriel> aiju: except that this is with a fucking english locale
22:42 < aiju> making stuff language dependent is even worse
22:42 < uriel> there is just no excuse imaginable for this kind of total
fucked up retardedness
22:42 < aiju> it just fucks up shell scripts horribly
22:42 < uriel> breaking pretty much every existing shell script
22:42 < aiju> but as someone pointed out
22:42 < aiju> "just set LANG to something else when you want to run a shell
script"
22:42 < aiju> brilliant idea.
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22:43 < uriel> again, and kiss utf-8 support goodbye (but then, gnu
coreutils and gawk utf-8 support has always been a bad buggy and dog slow joke)
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22:43 < uriel> anyway, all this is way offtopic :)
22:44 < crazy2be> lol
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22:46 < aiju> uriel: this [a-z] works with OS X
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22:51 < crazy2be> unexpected fault address 0xffffffc9
22:51 < crazy2be> always the same address
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22:53 < crazy2be> ahha!
22:53 < crazy2be> A pointer value of 0x1 is not valid
22:54 < gnuvince> What do Go people use for parser generation?
22:54 < aiju> yacc
22:57 < skelterjohn> jnwhiteh: i added benchmark support
22:57 < skelterjohn> gb -t will now pass -test.* command lines to the
testmain, just like gotest does
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22:58 < skelterjohn> so running: gb -t -test.bench=BenchmarkMyFavorite
22:58 < gnuvince> aiju: plain old yacc?
22:58 < aiju> gnuvince: goyacc
22:58 < skelterjohn> same as if you ran: gotest
-test.bench=BenchmarkMyFavorite
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23:00 < crazy2be> woo now i have panic: not reached
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23:01 < skelterjohn> nice
23:01 < skelterjohn> if you ever get that from something in the core pkgs,
file an issue
23:02 < crazy2be> no, from my own
23:02 < crazy2be> well, the code i'm working on
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23:02 < skelterjohn> file an issue to yourself
23:03 < crazy2be> working on it
23:03 < crazy2be> :P
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23:26 < brandini> man, I really like go
23:26 < brandini> great docs, fun, fast as bawls
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23:34 < crazy2be> now it's returning 1 for every funciton
23:34 < crazy2be> nice
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 26 00:00:54 2011