--- Log opened Sat Sep 04 00:00:03 2010 --- Day changed Sat Sep 04 2010 00:00 -!- dj2 [~dj2@CPE001f5b35feb4-CM0014048e0344.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:09 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:15 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:20 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eTY6X by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- tutorial: regenerate HTML to pick up change to progs/file.go. 00:37 -!- dolo [~ruzz@210-84-26-83.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38 -!- jmettraux [~jmettraux@PPPbm5391.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 00:38 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 00:38 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:40 -!- antonyp [~antony@78.32.134.243] has joined #go-nuts 00:40 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eTZ7W by [Rob Pike] in 4 subdirs of go/test/ -- test: remove semiocolons. 00:40 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eTZ7Z by [Rob Pike] in go/test/ -- test/turing: refactor 00:43 -!- enherit [~enherit@cpe-98-149-170-48.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:47 -!- antonyp [~antony@78.32.134.243] has quit [Quit: antonyp] 00:55 -!- tgall_foo [~tgall@gentoo/developer/dr-who] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:58 -!- antonyp [~antony@78.32.134.243] has joined #go-nuts 01:06 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:14 -!- antonyp [~antony@78.32.134.243] has quit [Quit: antonyp] 01:26 -!- Bombe [~droden@weltgehirnmaschine.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:26 -!- Bombe [~droden@weltgehirnmaschine.de] has joined #go-nuts 01:31 -!- mattikus` [~mattikus@ip24-250-73-154.br.br.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:36 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-228-152-114.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:40 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:57 < nsf> :( 01:57 * nsf has discovered one more flaw in gocode's design 01:58 < nsf> it's really bad at handling anonymous structs and interfaces :) 01:58 < nsf> well, it's not noticable for autocompletion 01:58 < nsf> but for refactoring it sucks really 01:58 < nsf> :( 02:00 < nsf> need to do something about it, hm... 02:00 -!- ukai [~ukai@nat/google/x-cuukacfaypxnvoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:02 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 02:02 -!- ukai [~ukai@nat/google/x-txzotrcoeatsimsn] has joined #go-nuts 02:04 -!- luruke [~luruke@151.53.53.142] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05 < steven_t> :( 02:09 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 02:22 -!- jturner [~james@command.huskycoding.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:25 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@96.89-10-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:39 -!- napsy 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[~Horst@e176104208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:33 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:34 -!- saschpe [~quassel@mgdb-4d0cfdcc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:36 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DC8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38 -!- royger [~royger@29.19.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #go-nuts 11:38 < royger> hi 11:38 -!- piyushmishra [~piyushmis@117.200.231.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:41 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 11:47 -!- luruke [~luruke@151.53.17.92] has joined #go-nuts 11:53 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-ckvfimrpdjvqodli] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:59 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 12:06 -!- samferry [sam@atheme/member/samferry] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:09 -!- samferry [sam@atheme/member/samferry] has joined #go-nuts 12:11 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:13 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 12:28 -!- piyushmishra [~piyushmis@117.200.224.241] has joined #go-nuts 12:29 -!- antonyp [~antony@78.32.134.243] has joined #go-nuts 12:30 -!- saschpe [~quassel@mgdb-4d0cfdcc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eUFFG by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ -- fmt: delete erroneous sentence about return value for Sprint*. 12:42 -!- piyushmishra [~piyushmis@117.200.224.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:44 -!- nmosf [fkhsd@121.245.73.179] has joined #go-nuts 12:44 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:45 -!- nmosf [fkhsd@121.245.73.179] has left #go-nuts [] 12:48 < Soultaker> this code triggers an internal compiler error: http://pastie.org/1137813 12:48 < Soultaker> that's probably a bug right? 12:49 < napsy> no 12:49 < napsy> your coude is faulty 12:49 < napsy> code? 12:49 < napsy> * 12:49 < Soultaker> yes, but I was thinking it should be rejected by the compiler? 12:49 < Soultaker> or is that not the way things work with Go? 12:50 < napsy> well it was but the error message could be better 12:51 < Soultaker> well I don't know. it depends on your development policy I suppose. 12:51 < Soultaker> for GCC ICEs are always considered bugs in the compiler. 12:51 < Soultaker> but if Go devs don't consider those bugs then just forget about it :) 12:56 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:56 -!- piyushmishra [~piyushmis@117.200.227.68] has joined #go-nuts 13:02 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 13:04 -!- royger [~royger@29.19.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:09 -!- antonyp [~antony@78.32.134.243] has quit [Quit: antonyp] 13:20 -!- ucasano [~ucasano@host153-182-static.227-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 13:27 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176104208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28 -!- luruke [~luruke@151.53.17.92] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@96.89-10-27.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:50 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eUKQu by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/netchan/ -- netchan: use acknowledgements on export send. 13:55 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DC8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:00 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:00 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053001119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:05 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@c-24-131-221-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:05 -!- steveno 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[~124271242@67.202.106.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:22 -!- yiyus [~124271242@67.202.106.57] has joined #go-nuts 16:23 < steven_t> am i justified in being confused that theres 3 types: values, pointers, and references (maps, slices, channels)? 16:24 < Namegduf> There's not three types. 16:24 < Namegduf> There are many more types. 16:24 < steven_t> now im very confused 16:24 < Namegduf> Values are not a type, too. 16:24 < steven_t> i meant at the top level 16:24 < steven_t> i dont know what word besides type to use 16:24 < steven_t> but i know type isnt the right word 16:24 < nbjoerg> type classes? 16:25 < jessta> steven_t: what is confusing about it? 16:26 < Namegduf> I would say "maybe", but you need to learn them anyway because those are roughly the three types of type you can get. 16:26 < steven_t> i guess im confused by this: http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html#references 16:26 < Namegduf> Even if the reference types did not exist in the language itself, user types which contain pointers function the same way. 16:27 < steven_t> see, thats what confuses me 16:27 < Namegduf> They're effectively value types which contain pointers, and thus refer to the same thing even when passed by value. 16:28 < steven_t> also im pretty confused on why you need to declare "type ByteSlice []byte" so you can declare a method on a ByteSlice, rather than defining a method on a []byte directly 16:28 < jessta> steven_t: it's about keeping types self contained in side a package 16:28 < jessta> *inside 16:29 < Namegduf> Because []byte is not defined by your package, and thus your package cannot define how it behaves. 16:29 < Namegduf> This would cause []byte to act inconsistently between code which imported your package, and code which didn't, too, so it's both conceptually and semantically ugly. 16:29 < jessta> steven_t: how do you work out which methods []byte has, if any package could declare a method on it? 16:30 < steven_t> so wait, ByteSlice and []byte are thus distinct types in Go, even though they can be converted between one another implicitly? 16:30 < Namegduf> Yes. 16:30 < steven_t> (assuming i typed it as such) 16:30 < Namegduf> But they CAN'T be converted implicitly. 16:30 < jessta> they can be converted explicitly 16:30 < Namegduf> You're right that they're distinct, though. 16:30 < steven_t> so if i have a []byte and i want to use it in a ByteSlice method, i have to convert it manually first? 16:30 < Namegduf> Yes. 16:31 < steven_t> such as ByteSlice(mybytes).SomeMethod() ? 16:31 < jessta> []byte(yourByteSlice) 16:31 < Namegduf> Other way around, jessta. 16:31 < jessta> yeah, that 16:31 < steven_t> huh. 16:31 < jessta> steven_t: what languages do you come from? 16:31 < steven_t> so thats a way of protecting []byte to only work the way the byte package wants? 16:31 < steven_t> jessta: so many 16:32 < Namegduf> []byte is a builtin, it doesn't have any methods defined at all. 16:32 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053001119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:32 < Namegduf> It's not so much a protection on []byte as on your type. 16:32 < steven_t> ruby, python, c, objc, lua, javascript, qbasic, lisp, smalltalk 16:32 < Namegduf> Like, if your []byte always has a specific kind of contents 16:32 < steven_t> probably more im sure, cant recall 16:33 < Namegduf> People have to explicitly convert the normal []byte to it, which is asserting that whatever is in it is compatible with what your methods expect. 16:33 < steven_t> huh. 16:33 < steven_t> ok 16:33 < jessta> steven_t: have you seen russ's blog post about Go types? 16:33 < steven_t> no but im very curious now 16:33 < Namegduf> In short, different types with different methods have different expected and valid values; conversions have to be explicit as a result. 16:33 < steven_t> i read a blog post on Go declarations and that helped me a ton 16:34 < Namegduf> It is not designed to be convenient to add convenience functions to types from outside the package, and it would be unwise, I think, to use a custom type to do so. 16:34 < Namegduf> I would suggest not using methods. 16:34 < steven_t> and i learned through experimentation that v := val is a statement whereas var v = val is a declaration 16:34 < steven_t> because the former cannot be performed in the root body of a package, at the earliest it can be done inside init() 16:34 < jessta> steven_t: http://research.swtch.com/2009/11/go-data-structures.html 16:35 < steven_t> hmm 16:36 < steven_t> i want to convert my tictactoe game to Go now :) 16:37 < steven_t> btw, new() is somewhat analagous to calloc(), right? 16:37 < steven_t> returns a zeroed out pointer (GC'd though and automatic size detection) 16:37 < steven_t> whereas make() has no equivalent in C, amiritie? 16:38 < steven_t> it just seems like for the 3 types that make() works with, it should be split into its own individual creation functions.. 16:38 < steven_t> like new_slice() or new_channel() etc 16:39 < steven_t> i dunno though, im way too new to Go to fully grasp it. thats just my initial gut reaction 16:39 < exch> that would add 3 new builtin functions whereas make() can do all of it 16:40 < jessta> steven_t: it's looking like the new()/make() thing is going to change soon 16:40 < steven_t> well from where i come from, it makes sense to just have a new() function and to let a specific type define an init() function of its own if need be, which slice, map, and channel could thus do, making it not even any kind of special-casd 16:41 < steven_t> *case 16:41 < steven_t> (where i come from in this case is ruby, not c++, mind you) 16:41 < jessta> Go avoids having constructors intentionally 16:41 < steven_t> why for? 16:41 < jessta> because they are terrible things 16:41 < steven_t> that seems to be exactly what slices, maps, and channels use make() for 16:41 < steven_t> and why they are different from new() 16:42 < jessta> people like to do crazy things in their constructors 16:42 < jessta> makes code hard to test etc. 16:42 < steven_t> i see 16:42 < steven_t> well perhaps itll take me a while to get used to that 16:42 < steven_t> but the rest of Go seems absolutely worth it 16:43 < steven_t> (its like C but not retarded!) 16:43 < jessta> it's convention to have a NewYourType() function for a type 16:43 < jessta> if it needs some kind of construction 16:43 < steven_t> which, let me guess, is some kind of initializer? 16:43 < steven_t> i see 16:44 < jessta> but it has to be explicitly called 16:44 < steven_t> right 16:44 < steven_t> still has me thinking "why not just an implicit initializer" 16:44 < steven_t> but meh 16:44 < jessta> implicit initalizer is hard to avoid 16:45 < jessta> some people are crazy and put things like making database connections in their constructors 16:45 < Namegduf> Go does not provide destructors 16:45 < Namegduf> Which kinda hampers half the use of constructors 16:46 < jessta> that too 16:46 < Namegduf> constructors are also totally unnecessary when you can use package.NewType() as an idiom with no special magic, too. 16:46 < exch> I presonally wuoldn't mind automatic constructors and destructors. They are convenient. But it would have to be both or none at all 16:46 < Namegduf> And it's also explicit that you're invoking special code to construct the type. 16:47 < jessta> it's also convention to have the zero'ed value of a type be a usable version of that type 16:47 < jessta> the vector.Vector is a great example of this 16:47 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 16:48 < steven_t> well you dont really need a destructor in a GC language 16:48 < jessta> being able to call methods on a nil pointer is rad 16:48 < steven_t> you can? 16:48 < steven_t> like in objc? 16:49 < Namegduf> Yes, if the method is not going to be angry. 16:49 < steven_t> methods to nil are fine in Go and if return anything, just return nil or equiv? 16:49 < Namegduf> They can return whatever they like. 16:50 < jessta> steven_t: the vector.Vector.Append() method checks for a nil pointer and then allocates if that's the case 16:51 < jessta> so you can just do, var myvector vector.Vector; // which is still a nil slice 16:51 -!- piyushmishra1 [~piyushmis@117.200.224.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51 < Namegduf> The only problem I see with constructors is that types you can safely new() and types with their own factory functions look inconsistent. 16:52 < Namegduf> *without 16:52 < Namegduf> And you need to remember which are which. 16:52 < Namegduf> This is not too bad, though. 16:52 < Namegduf> "Does a NewType function exist in the type's package?" answers it quite quickly. 16:56 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has joined #go-nuts 16:58 -!- eikenberry [~jae@ivanova.zhar.net] has quit [Quit: End of line.] 16:58 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053001119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:05 -!- luruke [~luruke@151.53.17.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:06 -!- piyushmishra [~piyushmis@117.200.226.207] has joined #go-nuts 17:08 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10 -!- yiyus [~124271242@67.202.106.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:11 -!- yiyus [~124271242@67.202.106.57] has joined #go-nuts 17:18 -!- MizardX [MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx] has joined #go-nuts 17:18 -!- crazy2be [~crazy2be@d205-206-130-118.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:18 < crazy2be> How can i log a client's IP address when they request something from my server? 17:20 -!- p4p4 [~P4p4@82.113.106.31] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:21 -!- p4p4 [~P4p4@82.113.106.31] has joined #go-nuts 17:21 -!- p4p4 [~P4p4@82.113.106.31] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23 -!- MizardX [MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24 -!- ucasano [~ucasano@host153-182-static.227-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: ucasano] 17:26 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176104208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:29 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@host193.201-252-56.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:31 < crazy2be> nvm, found it 17:32 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 17:32 -!- crazy2be [~crazy2be@d205-206-130-118.abhsia.telus.net] has left #go-nuts [] 17:33 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:35 -!- tvw [~tv@e176002005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:37 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@c-24-131-221-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:37 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@c-24-131-221-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:37 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 17:41 -!- jturner [~james@command.huskycoding.com] has left #go-nuts [] 17:45 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176104208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Quit: steveno] 17:51 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DC8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:07 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16 -!- jcao219_ [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:16 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 18:26 < steven_t> is there some way to test if a variable responds to a method? 18:48 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-lapfhzzarcuvutfj] has joined #go-nuts 18:58 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 18:58 -!- MX80 [~MX80@cust253.253.117.74.dsl.g3telecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04 -!- antonyp [~antony@78.32.134.243] has joined #go-nuts 19:07 -!- MX80 [~MX80@cust253.253.117.74.dsl.g3telecom.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:07 < cbeck> steven_t: Sort of, but not as simply as ruby or whatnot, what you can do is a type assertion: var2, ok := var.(TYPE) 19:08 < cbeck> Where TYPE can be an interface 19:09 < cbeck> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Type_assertions 19:14 -!- antonyp [~antony@78.32.134.243] has left #go-nuts [] 19:17 -!- Guest46885 [~irc@209.17.191.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18 -!- aguai [~aguai@li74-37.members.linode.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:26 -!- irc [~irc@209.17.191.58] has joined #go-nuts 19:40 -!- aguai [~aguai@li74-37.members.linode.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:42 < steven_t> ooooh 19:42 < steven_t> thanks cbeck 19:43 < steven_t> is there such a thing as a golang interpreter for the CLI? 19:44 < napsy> yes and no 19:44 < steven_t> great 19:44 < steven_t> thanks 19:45 < napsy> there is a very small interpreter included in the standard packages 19:45 < napsy> but not in a form of a CLI, you cen construct the CLI yourself 19:45 < napsy> can* 19:45 < steven_t> whoa 19:45 < steven_t> so theres an interpreter? but its not an interpreted language 19:46 < steven_t> so how in the heck does that work 19:46 < napsy> it's not and the interpreter is very limited for now 19:46 < steven_t> great 19:46 < napsy> steven_t: http://golang.org/pkg/exp/eval/ 19:46 < steven_t> hi 19:51 -!- aruiz_ [~aruiz@94-192-234-22.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 19:54 -!- terrex [~terrex@84.122.67.111.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:59 -!- lmoura_ [~lauromour@187.112.10.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-lapfhzzarcuvutfj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:07 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@93-97-62-8.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 20:10 -!- ukai [~ukai@nat/google/x-tsakdttbgmyplhew] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:11 -!- ukai [~ukai@nat/google/x-jqyklrizlwfkyzzh] has joined #go-nuts 20:12 -!- piyushmishra [~piyushmis@117.200.226.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24 -!- Sseur [~david@mic92-12-88-161-108-143.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:27 -!- idr [~idr@g225100054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28 < Sseur> Hellothere, i would like to know how can i made a modules architecture (the main program loads the modules) in go, in java , i use the serviceloader that find the modules to be loaded (modules are just classes that implements an interface). So, the question is, how can i make a program, that can load modules in a given directory ? 20:29 -!- l00t [~i-i3id3r_@189.105.2.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30 < steven_t> is it possible for there to be a bridge from go to c? 20:30 < napsy> Sseur: the linker will search for modules using your import path 20:30 < napsy> steven_t: yes it is 20:30 -!- l00t [~i-i3id3r_@189.105.85.75] has joined #go-nuts 20:31 < Sseur> napsy, yes, but in this case, you have to recompile your soft, the idea is to have the main program scanning a directory, then load any plugins it founds at runtime (compiled modules) 20:32 < napsy> oh 20:32 < napsy> I don't think that's possible at this moment 20:32 < Sseur> oh i see :( 20:32 < napsy> only if you use shared objects 20:32 < Sseur> maybe i should move to a IPC model ? 20:33 < napsy> I don't know 20:33 < Sseur> like having the main program spawning the modules 20:33 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:33 < Sseur> thanks anyway napsy :) 20:33 < napsy> you're welcome 20:36 < Sseur> so basically, the idea can be, the main program forkexecs the modules, and then by memory pipes, it send object adresses to the modules to be processed, does someone know if it is possible ? 20:36 < napsy> what kind of modules do you have in mind? 20:37 < napsy> modules as shared objects (.so files) or executables? 20:38 < Sseur> napsy, that's a good question, i don't know a lot about IPC 20:38 < exch> IPC over unix pipes is the cleanest approach to this I think. Use protocol buffers or the gob package thingy to serialize the/send message back and forth 20:38 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39 < exch> With the IPC approach, the modules will be independant executables that simply connect to a common pipe/port for communication 20:40 -!- aruiz_ [~aruiz@94-192-234-22.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:40 < Sseur> exch, hmm.. i would like the modules to call methods from the main program 20:41 < napsy> then you need a RPC system 20:41 < Sseur> so , i was thinking of shared memory IPC ? 20:43 < Sseur> hmm 20:44 < Sseur> can be, but i would like to do something more "lightweight" 20:45 < Sseur> i saw that google chrome follows the IPC model, when you add a module, it spawn a process (the module in fact) and then communicate with it by pipes (i think, correct me if i'm wrong) 20:51 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:51 < exch> it does 20:53 < Sseur> exch thats very intersting, do you know if chrome shares memory with the modules ? 20:53 < exch> I doubt it. The whole point is to isolate the modules from the main process for security and stability reasons 20:55 < Sseur> hmm i see, i will dig on this 20:56 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:57 -!- progettino [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-177-247.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:01 -!- nomo [~nomo@93-141-93-236.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #go-nuts 21:06 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09 -!- mattikus [~mattikus@ip24-250-73-154.br.br.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:10 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 21:10 < steven_t> im quite confused on some things regarding pointers, which i havent run across yet in any of the guides 21:10 < steven_t> for instance, i noticed that you access a member of a struct pointer such as s.member rather than s->member as you would in C 21:11 < steven_t> however, what if you have a plain struct, rather than a struct pointer? do you still do s.member? 21:12 < napsy> there's no -> operator in go 21:12 < exch> . will serve you in any situation 21:15 -!- nomo [~nomo@93-141-93-236.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:17 < steven_t> ok 21:17 < steven_t> i have to say, im pretty frustrated by the documentatin on golang.org 21:17 < steven_t> its using several definitions that are never really defined, and sometimes loosely 21:18 < steven_t> like "type" or "interface" 21:18 < steven_t> its making it difficult to understand comprehensively and thoroughly 21:18 < steven_t> is there an official book on Go? that might be easier to understand 21:21 -!- duaneb [80ef2874@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.239.40.116] has joined #go-nuts 21:23 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-177-247.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 21:24 < steven_t> ok i think i understand the pointer vs value concept now.. 21:24 < exch> I believe there is only one book some third party person wrote/published. Not sure how good it is 21:24 -!- Sseur [~david@mic92-12-88-161-108-143.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:25 < duaneb> soooo is there an ffi aside from cgo planned for go? 21:25 < exch> Considering that Go is still in active development, you'll probably won't find a whole lot of concrete documentation apart from the packagesource and it's docs 21:25 < steven_t> in C you could create a local var by doing mystruct_t st; and then you could pass a mystruct_t* to some functions via &st if you wanted. 21:25 < steven_t> but in Go you dont do that because then it will *copy the entire struct every times its passed anywhere* which could be inefficient 21:26 < steven_t> so in Go the main reason to pass a pointer is because copying a pointer value is pretty efficient compared to copying an entire struct or value of some kind 21:26 < steven_t> plus, naturally, if you pass a raw value, you need to return an edited one if you want to edit it. whereas with a pointer, you can modify the contents and not need to return it 21:26 < duaneb> sure 21:26 < nsf> steven_t: I don't understand you 21:27 < nsf> pointers in Go are pretty much the same as in C 21:27 < duaneb> but wasn't the option of returning tuples supposed to obsolete pass-by-pointer for modifications? 21:27 < nsf> there is just no pointer arithmetic 21:27 < nsf> and few other safety things 21:27 < steven_t> which is precisely why methods on a type usually use *sometype rather than sometype, since it still acts as its passing it to a function as an implicit first param 21:28 < steven_t> nsf: afaik pointers arent *exactly* the same as in C.. but i forgot the nuance 21:28 < exch> yes. Is that a problem? 21:28 < nsf> steven_t: they are 21:28 < steven_t> im just trying to understand, thats all 21:29 < nsf> pointer is a variable with an address of a memory location in it 21:29 < steven_t> so then it does in fact make sense to create a local copy of my struct and then pass &st to a function if it takes a ptr to that struct 21:29 < steven_t> but its uglier to type mystruct{} than new(mystruct) 21:29 < nsf> why do you want to copy something? 21:30 < steven_t> i do not 21:30 * steven_t sighs 21:30 < nsf> :) 21:30 < steven_t> bbl, reading 21:30 < nsf> I mean I don't understand your statement 21:30 < nsf> that in C you can create local var an pass an address of it to a function 21:30 < nsf> you can do that in Go too 21:30 < steven_t> yes i just said that 21:31 < steven_t> im having a really tough time communicationg right now please give me a break 21:31 < nsf> with exception that it will be allocated on the heap 21:31 < nsf> instead of on a stack 21:31 < steven_t> is anything on Go created on the stack ever? 21:31 < nsf> yes 21:31 < steven_t> oh cool 21:31 < nsf> but if you're trying to pass a pointer to that value somewhere 21:31 < nsf> it will be moved to the heap 21:31 < steven_t> then it will be moved to the heap for GC right? 21:31 < steven_t> awesome 21:31 < nsf> because of the safety issues 21:32 < steven_t> glad i understand even more 21:35 < nsf> unlike C, Go just tries very hard to prevent siutations where you have an invalid pointer and therefore prevents memory corruptions 21:35 < nsf> unless you're using package 'unsafe' 21:36 -!- peterdn [~peterdn@host81-151-238-51.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:37 -!- mattikus [~mattikus@ip24-250-73-154.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:38 -!- peterdn [~peterdn@host81-151-238-51.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:38 < steven_t> when a function doesnt return a value, instead of writing func name(arg type) void; do we just write func name(arg type); ? 21:39 < duaneb> just submitted http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=1081 21:40 < nsf> yes 21:44 -!- duaneb [80ef2874@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.239.40.116] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:55 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56 -!- tvw [~tv@e176002005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56 -!- terrex [~terrex@84.122.67.111.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:57 < steven_t> oh 21:57 < steven_t> that explains it 21:58 < KirkMcDonald> "void" isn't even a keyword in Go. 22:13 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@g225223243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:13 -!- boscop [~boscop@g225234097.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:23 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@188.107.60.149] has quit [Quit: Leave the magic to Houdini] 22:34 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-96-92.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39 -!- mattikus [~mattikus@ip24-250-73-154.br.br.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:41 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@96.89-10-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:42 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@96.89-10-27.nextgentel.com] has left #go-nuts [] 22:43 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 22:45 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.122.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:51 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:58 -!- General1337 [~support@71-84-244-55.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:58 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 23:01 -!- General13372 [~support@71-84-244-55.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 23:12 < steven_t> hey dude. i remember you from when i could tolerate python 23:30 -!- mattikus [~mattikus@ip24-250-73-154.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:31 < nsf> http://pastie.org/1138687 23:31 < nsf> :D 23:31 * nsf hardly understands what his code means 23:31 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:31 < nsf> although now it works correctly 23:32 < nsf> the next task is to make it beautiful and simple :) 23:33 < steven_t> range is a keyword of Go, right? 23:33 < steven_t> is there a way to make your own types work with range as well? 23:35 < nsf> yes 23:35 < nsf> no 23:35 < steven_t> gr 23:35 < exch> your type has to have a method that returns something usable with range. Either that, or expose a field. You can't make the type itself usable with range, unless it's an alias for a rangeable type. like: Type Foo []int; 23:35 < steven_t> compared to Ruby, Go has way too many special cases 23:35 < steven_t> like range 23:35 < nsf> it's just a syntax sugar issue 23:35 < steven_t> yeah 23:35 * steven_t sighs 23:36 < steven_t> i want to love Go, i really do 23:36 < exch> tis not for everyone :p Nobody will think less of you if you don't like it 23:37 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@93-97-62-8.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:38 -!- luruke [~luruke@151.53.17.92] has joined #go-nuts 23:39 < steven_t> thats the thing.. i DO like a lot of parts of it 23:39 < steven_t> i certainly like it more than C 23:40 < steven_t> and for the speed and performance benefits and the multithreading capabilities, it definitely beats python or ruby 23:40 < steven_t> im just a little sad that its not as clean as i would prefer, and as i think ruby to be 23:40 < steven_t> but despite that its still worth learning and using 23:41 < nsf> i think it's very clean 23:41 < steven_t> i hope to believe that over time too. 23:41 < steven_t> initially i thought ruby was horribly ugly. but after reading the pickaxe book for 3 weeks, i completely changed my mind and decided it was the cleanest language i ever learned 23:41 < steven_t> (granted thats to say nothing of ruby's stdlib) 23:42 < steven_t> (which is really clean generally but has a couple warts) 23:42 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:42 < steven_t> so i hope to feel this way about Go adfter i learn it thoroughly 23:42 < steven_t> its just harder to learn than i guessed it would be, and i think thats due to the documentation 23:43 < nsf> you should try to learn D 2.0 23:43 < nsf> it has no any sensible documentation at all 23:43 < nsf> except the D book, which costs money 23:43 < nsf> and Go has very nice language spec 23:43 < nsf> which is complete and correct 23:44 < nsf> so.. I don't think that there is a problem with documention in Go 23:44 < nsf> maybe it is a bit more for people who come frm C/C++ background 23:44 < nsf> I don't know 23:48 < steven_t> im fine with paying money for a book 23:48 < steven_t> i learned Ruby via the pickaxe book, remember? ;) 23:48 < steven_t> i come from plenty of backgrounds 23:48 < steven_t> but many of the Go guides seem written in vague confusing ways slightly 23:48 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:53 < KirkMcDonald> steven_t: Read the spec. --- Log closed Sun Sep 05 00:00:05 2010