--- Log opened Wed Oct 06 00:00:09 2010 00:02 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-236-242.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:02 -!- BlaSux [~7f000001@dr.kleiner.lambdacomplex.org] has joined #go-nuts 00:16 -!- tvw [~tv@e176003227.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:20 < adg> test 00:20 -!- Tv [~tv@gige.bur.digisynd.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@c-24-131-221-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:20 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@c-24-131-221-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:20 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 00:20 < exch> 123 00:21 < scyth> 321 00:21 < scyth> :) 00:23 -!- Venom_bbl [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has quit [Quit: Venom_bbl] 00:24 < adg> someone msg'd me and asked if they could send messages to the channel - must not have had a registered nick 00:24 < exch> probably 00:26 <+iant> yeah, that's the usual problem 00:27 <+iant> I always point them to http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#registering 00:30 < uriel> would be nice to change whatever flag that does that for this channel 00:30 < uriel> it makes life harder for newbies that just want to ask a question 00:30 <+iant> on the other hand it supposedly cuts down on spam comments 00:30 <+iant> I don't know, I didn't set it up this way 00:30 < uriel> I have run quite a few channels, never had any problems with spam 00:30 < KirkMcDonald> Isn't it +r? 00:31 < KirkMcDonald> I don't think this channel has that mode set on it. 00:31 < uriel> and if an spammer shows up, you ban it, and done, in irc is much less of an issue than on a mailing list 00:31 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 00:31 < Namegduf> +r blocks entry. 00:31 < uriel> which btw, reminds me, any chance we can get golang-dev and gonuts moderated for new posters (at least golang-dev) 00:31 < adg> uriel: i think it's an issue of "hit and run" spammers 00:32 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:32 < adg> no point banning them, they always use different IPs 00:32 < Namegduf> The muting extban is set, though. 00:32 < adg> i've experienced it before; not on freenode, though 00:32 < adg> the way i've dealt with it in the past is to make the channel +m and then allow people to message a bot to get +v 00:32 < uriel> yea, but again, i have not noticed any hit-and-run spammers in any of my other freenode channels for a while, and in irc the damage they cause is rather minimal as the noise is lost in the backlog pretty fast 00:34 < adg> i'm happy to turn whatever flag it is off and see how it goes 00:38 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+o adg] by ChanServ 00:49 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-q unban!*@*] by nf 00:49 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-q unban!*@*] by nf 00:49 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:49 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-q $~a] by nf 00:49 < uriel> nf: it is in Group Settings->Spam Controls 00:49 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-q base3!*@*] by nf 00:50 <@nf> uriel: i don't use whatever IRC client you're using :) 00:50 <@nf> it's fixed now 00:50 < uriel> nf: I would enable it for golang-dev, as it is a lower traffic list where spam is more prominent, and where the number of new posters probably will be low so should not be much work for you 00:50 < uriel> nf: I was talking about the groups.google.com 'irc client' ;) 00:51 <+iant> rsc has argued in the past that the spam blocking is good enough that we should just permit all posts 00:51 <+iant> I don't really care either way 00:51 <+iant> but please don't change it without checking in with him 00:52 <@nf> oh, no i think how we manage golang-dev at the moment is fine 00:53 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:53 <@nf> (i missed your earlier msg where you referred to the mailing lists) 00:53 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:00 -!- Tv [~tv@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:01 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.106.122] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:04 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:07 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-236-242.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15 -!- kingless [~kingless@166.137.14.198] has joined #go-nuts 01:21 -!- kingless [~kingless@166.137.14.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:32 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Quit: steveno] 01:36 < uriel> oh well, golang-dev and go-nuts are pretty much the only lists I'm in where spam gets through, but maybe I'm just picky :) 01:36 < uriel> adg: btw, any plans to speak at FoSDEM: http://www.fosdem.org/2011/call_for_main_speakers 01:36 -!- enferex [~enferex@users.757.org] has left #go-nuts [] 01:38 -!- enferex [~enferex@users.757.org] has joined #go-nuts 01:45 -!- fenicks [~christian@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:52 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 02:02 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:04 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05 <@adg> uriel: no immediate plans; might be worth doing, though 02:06 < uriel> it is probably the biggest open source conference in europe 02:07 < uriel> I know rob is going to some conf in Denmark this week or so, but only java PHBs and other silly people goes to that (I think the entrance fee is over 200EUR) 02:09 <@adg> JAOO is more than just that 02:19 < uriel> ok, I know, but I'm a cynic, and I really dislike the attitude of the conference, Java and OO elitists? you really got to be kidding me 02:20 < uriel> anyway, nevermind, should work harder to keep my pet hates away from this channel and locked up in #cat-v ;P 02:20 < uriel> adg: ah, I was wondering if the recordings for any of the talks given in .au have been published? 02:21 < uriel> I know you gave one a while ago, and rob gave one recently, IIRC i saw in some mailinglist that at least yours was recorded, 02:22 <@adg> unfortunately mine wasnt 02:22 <@adg> rob's is here: http://sydney.edu.au/engineering/it/videos/seminar_pike 02:23 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d442.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION] 02:23 < uriel> ah, fantastic, thanks! 02:23 <@adg> =) 02:25 < uriel> oh, you meant this one: https://sites.google.com/site/gdevelopereventsyd/Home/1-day-go-course ? I think I was thinking of an older one at some gtug, can't find which one now 02:27 < uriel> oh, rob gave another intro to Go in Feb: http://groups.google.com/group/sydney-gtug/browse_thread/thread/d7510ac141a58424/ 02:27 < uriel> but I think that wasn't the one I was thinking about 02:28 <@adg> no i meant the gtug one 02:28 <@adg> it was supposed to be recorded, but my colleague forgot to press the button. sigh 02:28 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:29 -!- Simon_Wang [~linfves@111.167.209.222] has joined #go-nuts 02:29 < uriel> heh, that happens surprisingly often ^_^ 02:29 <@adg> it has plagued my talks 02:29 <@adg> i haven't had a single one recorded properly 02:29 < uriel> more motivation to give even more talks then! 02:30 < uriel> sooner or later one will come out right ;) 02:30 <@adg> i suppose it means by the time i finally get one recorded right it'll be damn good! 02:30 < uriel> exactly 02:31 < uriel> much better that way, I had the opposite experience with a series of talks I gave about Plan 9 some years ago, the first one, which in my opinion was awful, got recorded, the following ones, specially one I was very happy with (the audience stayed for an extra 40 minutes because they wanted to hear more) didn't get recorded :( 02:32 < uriel> (worse, the first one is still online and prominently linked in various places, I hide my head in shame every time I think about it :)) 02:33 <@adg> lol 02:33 <@adg> yeah well the very first talk I did on Go was recorded 02:33 <@adg> in high def, no less 02:33 <@adg> but i forbade the guy who recorded it from releasing it :P 02:34 < uriel> damn, you are smarter than me! 02:34 < uriel> I have frequently wished I had stolen the tape and burnt it 02:36 < uriel> adg: so rob's talk at the gtug wasn't recorded either? 02:37 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 02:39 < exch> it's a shame rob's seminar in sydney is missing what's going on on the beamer 02:41 <@adg> the projector? yeah 02:43 <@adg> exch: these may not be the exact slides, but http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/45/Another%20Go%20at%20Language%20Design%20Presentation.pdf 02:43 <@adg> uriel: i'm not sure; i will check 02:45 < exch> adg: thanks 02:45 * uriel wants to learn to give talks without any slides or projector 02:45 <@adg> i prefer not using slides 02:46 <@adg> but it's hard to talk about specific programming language stuff without code 02:46 < uriel> of course when presenting code there are few alternatives, although you could do it live with a text editor and that is it 02:46 < uriel> yea 02:48 <@adg> yeah i have given talks with just the go playground 02:48 <@adg> it works well 02:48 <@adg> requires more nerves 02:51 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.244.15.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:51 <@adg> uriel: no, rob's gtug talk wasn't recorded either. how annoying. 02:57 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-211-128-31.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:00 < uriel> time to give more talks then! 03:00 < uriel> lets see if we can arrange for one in Stockholm next time iant visits (if he dares to come back ^_^) 03:01 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 03:13 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:24 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:26 -!- noktoborus [~noktoboru@host-208-107.hosts.vtc.ru] has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас] 03:27 -!- noktoborus [~noktoboru@host-208-107.hosts.vtc.ru] has joined #go-nuts 03:27 -!- noktoborus_ [~noktoboru@host-208-107.hosts.vtc.ru] has joined #go-nuts 03:28 -!- noktoborus [~noktoboru@host-208-107.hosts.vtc.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28 -!- noktoborus_ [~noktoboru@host-208-107.hosts.vtc.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28 -!- noktoborus [~noktoboru@host-208-107.hosts.vtc.ru] has joined #go-nuts 03:35 -!- yihuang [~yihuang@183.17.142.122] has joined #go-nuts 03:35 -!- yihuang [~yihuang@183.17.142.122] has left #go-nuts [] 03:35 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 03:45 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.244.15.163] has joined #go-nuts 03:45 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-50-200.btc-net.bg] has joined #go-nuts 03:47 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:56 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.244.15.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:56 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 04:19 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 04:28 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 04:29 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:31 < cbeck> If anyone is in Portland, OR anytime, the PSU ACM would love to host a talk 04:34 -!- mduft_ [~mduft@gentoo/developer/mduft] has joined #go-nuts 04:35 -!- mduft__ [~mduft@193.186.16.254] has joined #go-nuts 04:35 <@adg> wasn't OSCON just in portland? 04:35 -!- mduft [~mduft@gentoo/developer/mduft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@4705ds1-ris.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #go-nuts 04:37 < cbeck> It was, I was stuck in classes for most of it 04:38 < cbeck> Missed both go sessions =/ 04:38 -!- mduft_ [~mduft@gentoo/developer/mduft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:39 -!- mduft_ [~mduft@gentoo/developer/mduft] has joined #go-nuts 04:39 <@adg> dang 04:39 <@adg> a shame 04:39 <@adg> might have to come to the states and do a speaking tour 04:40 -!- mduft__ [~mduft@193.186.16.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41 -!- mduft [~mduft@gentoo/developer/mduft] has joined #go-nuts 04:44 -!- mduft_ [~mduft@gentoo/developer/mduft] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-50-200.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:51 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@4705ds1-ris.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 04:54 < anticw> is the foo... change complete? 04:54 < anticw> it seems not to be 04:54 < anticw> foo(va...) and foo(va) do the same thing for me 04:55 * anticw wonders if parallel builds are screwing up his env 05:01 -!- scm [scm@d070166.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:02 -!- fabled [~fabled@xdsl-83-150-94-238.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02 < anticw> heh 05:02 < anticw> internal compiler error: mkdotargslice: typecheck failed 05:02 -!- scm [scm@d019086.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 05:06 <@adg> that's weird 05:06 <@adg> did you file the bug? i'm looking at it now 05:07 < anticw> i will now 05:07 < anticw> i just did it another way to match the bug 05:08 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:08 < anticw> adg: 8g only working? 05:09 -!- fabled [~fabled@xdsl-83-150-94-237.nebulazone.fi] has joined #go-nuts 05:09 <@adg> i didn't try 8g 05:09 < anticw> updating bug now 05:09 <@adg> the bug reportee says 8g is broken, it's broken on 6g here 05:09 < anticw> oh, there is another bug? 05:09 < anticw> i was going to update 640 05:09 <@adg> which one are you talking about? 05:09 < anticw> issue 640 05:10 <@adg> there's an open one 05:10 <@adg> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=1165 05:10 < anticw> should really just be 640 05:10 < anticw> IMO 05:10 <@adg> no, 640 is the feature request 05:10 <@adg> the feature is in; the compiler has a bug in its implementation of it 05:10 < anticw> well ... 640 has the change in it that broke the work-around 05:11 < anticw> adg: it doesn't unwrap for []interface{} either 05:11 <@adg> let me put it another way: we already have an open bug reporting this precise issue. let's keep discussing there 05:11 < anticw> there you get one element of []inteface{} 05:12 < anticw> adg: when you kick to accepted state you can assign ? 05:12 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 05:13 <@adg> anticw: what do you mean? 05:13 <@adg> i can, because i'm one of the project owners 05:14 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:14 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 05:14 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:14 < anticw> adg: i wonder if something was dropped from the merge/fix? 05:15 < anticw> i'm looking over the older issues from rsc to see ... it seems he must have tested this 05:15 <@adg> anticw: he recently submitted a change that fixed a bunch of related bugs, perhaps there was a regression 05:15 <@adg> shouldn't be a big deal 05:15 < anticw> there is no test case :/ 05:16 <@adg> not for this particular one, no 05:16 <@adg> test cases were added for the bugs he fixed 05:16 <@adg> fwiw, it works in the latest release tag 05:18 < anticw> 308 tests for this 05:18 < anticw> i wonder why that doesn't show up 05:19 <@adg> not this exact issue 05:21 < anticw> what is the hg syntax to move to a version? 05:22 <@adg> hg update [revision] 05:22 <@adg> or hg update -r [revision] 05:22 <@adg> they might both work 05:23 < anticw> yeah, googled it ... shoulda done that first sorry 05:23 < anticw> real 0m12.643s 05:23 < anticw> heh ... me likes fast build times 05:25 < anticw> adg: should hg log reflect the update? 05:25 < anticw> i would have though so 05:26 < anticw> ie. i should see 'less' 05:27 < anticw> adg: 'hg update -r release' + rebuild still fails here 05:27 <@adg> k, looks like a fresh one then 05:28 <@adg> do you have a distinct test case that's differen to the ones in 1165 ? 05:28 < anticw> different but same underlying issue 05:29 < anticw> using interface{} doesn't barf the compiler because that's valid either way 05:29 <@adg> writing compilers is hard :P 05:30 < anticw> yes 05:38 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-211-128-31.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: itrekkie] 05:50 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:50 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 05:50 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 05:52 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-30-121.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 06:05 -!- wjlroe [~will@78-86-14-131.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 06:05 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-30-121.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:25 -!- azathoth99 [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:26 < azathoth99> uriel are you awake? 06:32 < azathoth99> I want to get bad into cat-v, and am willing to listen to things I should not do. 06:38 -!- navigator [~navigator@p54892B26.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:41 < azathoth99> is go at all similar to forth? 06:41 < azathoth99> microcomoils of each definition as oen goes along 06:41 < azathoth99> ? 06:42 < anticw> no 06:49 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 06:49 < Gertm> is there a rounding function in Go? 06:56 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 07:02 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has joined #go-nuts 07:05 < vsmatck> Gertm: hm, dunno. You could do the old add 0.5 and cast to int though. 07:07 < anticw> for strings there are some explicit functions but for float/int i would do as vsmatck suggested 07:07 < anticw> care w/ overflows of course 07:10 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@188.107.214.200] has joined #go-nuts 07:20 -!- wjlroe [~will@78-86-14-131.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:32 < vsmatck> I sorta feel like talking about generics. I read russ cox's blog post on it and thought about it for a few hours. So that makes me an internet expert on the subject. 07:33 < anticw> pretty much :) 07:33 < vsmatck> Is the idea that it's not going to be done if it causes excessive compilation time, code bloat, or runtime overhead? 07:34 < vsmatck> I been trying to think of a way of doing it without any of those draw backs. My mind is blank. 07:35 < anticw> whatever happens it's going to be a compromise ... i assume like exceptions it will take time to see where suitable lines might be drawn 07:35 -!- azathoth99 [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:36 < vsmatck> It seems like because the imports in go are symbolic that the compile time specialization (like C++ does) would be problematic. Like you couldn't just point at a *.a file of a package. You'd need the *.go file. 07:36 < vsmatck> I mean symbolic, like they're not text substitution like C++. 07:40 <@adg> vsmatck: re generics, we're basically trying to find the right compromise 07:40 < vsmatck> I wonder if there could be a not-quite-JIT way where the code for a function could be stored (as go code or some intermediate) and compiled/cached on runtime. 07:40 <@adg> a more likely approach is java-style boxing 07:42 < vsmatck> I like the boxing idea from a ehh "marketing" perspective. Like if you look at the space Go fills and the spaces other languages fill. 07:42 < vsmatck> Also it seems like it'd be the least difficult to implement. And you could do very convenient stuff like call a generic function that exists in a shared object (when that exists later). 07:50 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-177-190.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 07:52 < vsmatck> I like the C++ concept idea where it makes you specify what named functions and operators a class has to support. That actually seems similar to go interfaces. 07:53 < nsf> concepts are indeed compile-time go interfaces :) 07:53 < vsmatck> C++ as it is now with templates you pretty much specify what stuff the generic type has to support in documentation. Errors are crappy because the type gets substituted in to 5000 places. 07:54 < vsmatck> I wonder if Go interfaces could be overloaded for generics. 07:54 < vsmatck> Like have them be Go runtime interfaces. 07:55 < vsmatck> There'd have to be support for specifying operators in the interface tho. 07:57 < nsf> well, operators are not necessary 07:57 < nsf> as well as function overloading 07:58 < nsf> operator overloading is basically a syntax sugar 07:58 < nsf> you can always use methods for that: x = myVector.At(i); myVector.SetAt(i, x); 07:59 < vsmatck> I'm not thinking of operator overloading. I'm just thinking you will need to specify what your type has to support in the "concept-map like thing". 07:59 < nsf> ugly, but works 07:59 < nsf> well, if you want interfaces to do that job, they have an ability to specify which methods type should have 08:00 < nsf> for most cases it's enough 08:00 < vsmatck> Are there any problems with generic functions being specialized to built in types that support operators then. *thinks* 08:01 < nsf> yes, there are problems like that 08:01 < nsf> but I guess in python they had the same issue before 3.0 08:01 < nsf> the problem was that built-in types and user defined types are not the same 08:02 < nsf> and in Go it's the same here, and it will be a problem for generics 08:02 < nsf> in C++ for example you can define types with the same semantics as built-in types 08:02 < nsf> due to constructors, operator overloading, type cast operators, etc. 08:03 < nsf> but.. again, it requires a lot from the language :) 08:03 < vsmatck> I like the no-operator-overloading idea. 08:03 < nsf> operator overloading, reference types, constructors, function overloading 08:03 < nsf> so.. in Go I guess something simpler should be a better idea 08:03 < vsmatck> You could still support specifying operators in the concept-map without supporting operators on user defined types tho. 08:04 < nsf> I don't like the idea of a concept-map 08:04 < nsf> well, partially 08:04 < nsf> I don't know 08:04 < nsf> never used it 08:04 < vsmatck> I want to ask if you have a better idea. (but I don't want to sound like an ass) 08:05 < nsf> no I don't 08:05 < vsmatck> doh :) 08:05 < nsf> I don't have any ideas regarding templates for Go 08:05 < nsf> even more 08:05 < nsf> I think they are not necessary :) 08:05 < vsmatck> Well I just think since the concept-map idea is so similar to Go that it could be a way to extend existing Go language features to integrate with generics. 08:05 < nsf> a proper type-aware preprocessor will do the job 08:06 -!- wjlroe [~will@212.169.34.114] has joined #go-nuts 08:06 < vsmatck> If we're assuming we're using the boxing idea then we won't have the *.go file when linking to a pkg with a generic function in it. 08:07 < nsf> the only positive argument for generics against implementing everything using runtime type information 08:07 < nsf> is performance 08:07 < nsf> the question is 08:08 < nsf> do we really need a generics system for performance important parts of an application 08:08 < vsmatck> Well, there'd still need to be some language modifications. I don't think _all_ of it could be done with reflection. 08:08 < nsf> because most likely speed optimizations involve hardcoding for special cases 08:08 < vsmatck> Doesn't seem like it needs to be no-runtime-peformance-cost like in C++. But it shouldn't be slow. 08:09 < nsf> how fast it should be? 08:09 < vsmatck> I have the idea that Go fits some where between C++ and scripting languages on the performance scale. 08:09 < nsf> we can take the java approach for that 08:09 < vsmatck> ya 08:09 < nsf> it is reasonably fast (compared to python for example) 08:10 < nsf> but on the other hand 08:10 < nsf> I really want templates like in C++ 08:10 < nsf> for simple stuff 08:10 < nsf> my favourite example is min max functions 08:11 < nsf> there is no reason why we should bother writing them again and again for different types 08:11 < nsf> as well as sorting functions 08:12 -!- wjlroe [~will@212.169.34.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12 < vsmatck> I'd a library like "bytes" but for all types of slices. 08:12 < nsf> C's qsort is fast, but C++'s std::sort is much faster for certain cases 08:12 < nsf> e.g. sorting an array of floats 08:12 < nsf> and things like that are important for some areas 08:12 < nsf> e.g. 3d graphics 08:12 < nsf> :P 08:13 < nsf> vsmatck: well, you need generic containers 08:13 < nsf> I'd like to see them too 08:13 < vsmatck> Seems like something like a sort function should be written in C and not go. 08:13 < vsmatck> Err oh,,.. I understand. 08:13 < nsf> why can't it be written in Go? 08:13 -!- wjlroe [~will@212.169.34.114] has joined #go-nuts 08:14 < vsmatck> ya because you want to be able to sort user defined types. Gotcha. 08:14 < vsmatck> My brain is not very quick when thinking generically. :) 08:14 <@adg> nsf: the question is, do you complicate the language just for max and min? 08:14 < nsf> adg: yep, I know that there are questions 08:14 < nsf> :) 08:15 < vsmatck> adg: false dichotomy there. 08:15 < nsf> well, I don't know what I want from the language 08:15 < nsf> but looks like other people want that 08:16 < vsmatck> Wait. I think you were being humorous. I get it. 08:16 < nsf> people are using C++ for some reason 08:16 < nsf> and for the same reason sometimes they don't use C for their projects 08:17 <@adg> vsmatck: i'm making an allegorical point. you can save yourself a small amount of trouble when solving certain problems, but at what cost? 08:17 < vsmatck> adg: Ah I understand 100% what you mean now. 08:18 < nsf> actually I will perfectly understand if Go authors eventually decide not implementing generics for Go 08:19 < nsf> but, I'm sure it will result in something in future 08:20 < nsf> I bet a lot of people don't use Go because it doesn't have generics 08:20 < nsf> :\ 08:20 < vsmatck> I wouldn't understand. Generics make programs higher quality. 08:20 < nsf> no, they are not 08:20 < nsf> programmers do 08:20 < vsmatck> False dichotomy. They both do. 08:20 <@adg> vsmatck: i have seen some truly awful code written using generics :P 08:20 < uriel> nsf: maybe we are better off without all those people that are incapable of trying something that doesn't tick all their arbitrary checkboxes 08:21 < uriel> nsf: I'm sure there are many people that wont use Go because "Go has no classes", can't say I will miss them 08:22 <@adg> i'm not concerned about people not using go because it doesn't have x or y 08:22 < uriel> vsmatck: generics add complexity to the language, higher language complexity increases the possibilities for higher program complexity, which is the opposite of higher quality 08:22 <@adg> what i'm concerned with is people being enthusiastic about go, using it to solve their problems, but then feeling that there are better alternatives 08:22 < vsmatck> adg: heh, ya some generic C++ code is... hard to even describe without lots of profanity. 08:22 < uriel> (note that I said potential, obviously this will as nsf well pointed out, depend on the programmer) 08:23 < uriel> vsmatck: I think new kinds of profanity need to be invented to properly describe much C++ out there 08:24 < nsf> uriel: maybe.. maybe.. 08:24 < vsmatck> Well. I suppose with generics there are opposing forces for quality. Like you said implementing something like an algorithm generically may be harder. But it only has to be done once. It increases code reuse. So I guess it's a tradeoff. 08:26 < uriel> vsmatck: in the end it will depend completely (besides on the programmer) on how generics actually look like, and how they interact with the rest of the language, etc 08:26 < nsf> vsmatck: sometimes writing your own STL is a very good thing, as practice tells us a lot of C++ programmers don't even know how to use STL, what reuse are we talking about here? 08:26 < nsf> reuse fails a lot 08:26 < vsmatck> I'm really confident generic programming can be made easier than it is to do in C++. 08:26 < uriel> just 'adding generics' is unlikely to do any good other than shutting up people whinning about stuff they don't care to understand 08:26 < nsf> I've never seen proof for that 08:26 < taruti> look at ML for examples 08:27 < taruti> and Go *has* generics, just not user-definable generics. 08:27 < vsmatck> nsf: writing your own STL seems clearly like a bad idea. Are you joking here? 08:27 < nsf> vsmatck: no, I'm not 08:27 < nsf> of course not the fully compliant STL 08:27 < nsf> but your own map, string, vector classes 08:27 < nsf> simply to understand how they work 08:27 < nsf> is a very good exercise for any programmer 08:28 < uriel> obsession with 'code reuse' has caused as much, or perhaps more, damage to the software world as obsession with (often premature and misguided) "performance optimizations" 08:28 < vsmatck> nsf: oh! I understand what you're saying. Yeah it can be a good learning experience for sure. I just wouldn't want all the C++ programs I use to have written their own STL. But I understand your point. 08:28 < taruti> C++ is one of the most horrible generics implementations 08:29 < nsf> I'm not saying that you should use that hand made STL in your projects, but programmers that use STL should have experience writing their own stuff 08:29 < nsf> otherwise sometimes they do crazy stuff 08:29 < vsmatck> uriel: I think an example of the idea of code reuse going too far OO inheritance. I'm not convinced of the idea of inheritance. 08:29 < taruti> one can do "inheritance" in Go too 08:30 < vsmatck> nsf: ya I gotcha. I fully agree with you. 08:31 < nsf> hehe 08:31 < uriel> vsmatck: as with "optimizations", things that supposedly are designed to improve code reuse often end up being counterproductive and causing even more code, and specially more convoluted code 08:32 < nsf> personally I don't understand inheritance 08:32 -!- tasosos [~tasosos@79.103.7.89.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #go-nuts 08:32 < nsf> like in LLVM, "TargetData" is a subclass of Pass 08:32 < nsf> wtf O_o 08:32 <@adg> i was told the other night that class hierarchy is essential to solve problems in software 08:32 <@adg> i didn't really know how to respond :) 08:32 < nsf> someone lied to you 08:32 < uriel> i (think) I understand inheritance, what I don't understand is why anyone would think it is a good idea to totally conflate and convolute the type system with the organization and reuse of code 08:33 <@adg> how i ended up responding 08:33 < nsf> uriel: yes, people do crazy stuff with inheritance 08:33 -!- sahid [~sahid@LNeuilly-152-21-22-10.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 08:33 < nsf> and for some other reason 08:33 <@adg> is that master programmers can wield a type system to do amazing things 08:33 < vsmatck> People reading code are like CPUs in a way. Inheritance wreaks some havoc on your brains cache. So do header files etc. 08:33 < nsf> they think that using inheritance itself makes code documented and clear 08:33 <@adg> but interface design is the hardest part of programming, and conventional OO is almost entirely interface design 08:34 < vsmatck> It's almost nicer to have to write a little extra code and know that when you're looking at a text file that it contains every function that an object has. 08:34 <@adg> with class-based OO the game is rigged so that any not-brilliant programmer writes sub-part code 08:34 <@adg> "sub-par" 08:34 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-14-60.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 08:35 < nsf> adg: hehe, that's why I like (in a "special" way) gtk's glib and gobject thing 08:35 < nsf> writing class hierarchies is so hard with it 08:35 < nsf> that you will think twice 08:35 < vsmatck> OO works great for toy problems. I can never design those relationships up front on most real stuff I've made. 08:35 <@adg> this idea appealed to him, as it didn't speak against his ability to write good OO code, and he could see the problems I was getting at :) 08:35 < nsf> :) 08:35 < vsmatck> But GUI code may be an exception. I'm very impressed with the GTKMM class hierarchies for example. 08:35 < nsf> vsmatck: gtkmm is horrible 08:35 < vsmatck> GUI code seems to lend itself very well to OO. 08:36 < nsf> they are using const std::string& as a function argument just to pass it to the C api's const char* 08:36 < nsf> isn't that stupid? 08:37 < nsf> well, in GUI of course string allocations means nothing basically 08:37 < vsmatck> naw, that's normal. 08:37 < nsf> but I think it's stupid :) 08:37 < nsf> mean* 08:37 < nsf> because if you're passing a string literal to a function that takes const std::string& 08:37 < nsf> it does malloc 08:38 < nsf> copies you string and then passes it to the C api 08:38 < nsf> :\ 08:38 < nsf> and then frees it immediately 08:39 < nsf> uhm.. does anyone know a good alternative for LLVM? 08:40 < nsf> libjit? c--? 08:40 < vsmatck> c-- pff. Do any humans actually use that for programming? 08:41 < nsf> i believe one of the haskell compilers use it 08:41 < nsf> but then it translates c-- to llvm bytecode >_< 08:42 < vsmatck> I read some blurb a while ago about llvm getting a front end that generates llvm middle end code directly. 08:42 < vsmatck> I know very little about this. 08:42 < nsf> looks like llvm is the best free solution for architecture independent code generation out there :( 08:44 < nsf> at least it is well supported 08:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fNAaZ by [Stephen Ma] in go/src/pkg/bufio/ -- bufio: minor documentation fix. 08:55 -!- Simon_Wang [~linfves@111.167.209.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:59 -!- scyth [~scyth@rots.in.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:05 -!- jmettraux [~jmettraux@211.19.55.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 09:09 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-14-60.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10 < uriel> adg: I have not seen any 'brilliant' programmers make good use of OO, actually 'brilliant' programmers that think they are being smart often create the most byzantine class hierarchies 09:11 < uriel> (the whole 'patterns' bandwagon is an example of this) 09:22 -!- scyth [~scyth@zeljko.eunet.rs] has joined #go-nuts 09:22 -!- Fish9 [~Fish@86.65.182.207] has joined #go-nuts 10:10 <@adg> uriel: i dunno, we have some good OO code at Google 10:14 -!- res99 [~anonymous@201.237.130.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:31 * nsf doubts that OO can be good 10:31 < nsf> unless of course it's something like 1 level of inheritance using pure virtual base class 10:31 < Bombe> OO is not good or bad. It just is. 10:32 < nsf> having 2 levels or more doesn't work for my head :\ 10:34 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 10:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fNHW9 by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ -- A+C: Albert Strasheim 10:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fNHWf by [Albert Strasheim] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: add ucred structure for SCM_CREDENTIALS over UNIX sockets. 10:42 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 10:51 < EthanG> OO is just like beaurocracy, to my mind. a large hierarchy with a different, complex procedure for each interaction, and everyone seems to think you improve the system by growing it 10:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fNJ6x by [Mikio Hara] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: fix comment 10:59 < scyth> disregarding frigid and over-complex OO code, base strengths of it (isolated namespaces, constructors, type methods) are implemented in Go. So what's wrong there? It's not called OO, so it's "better"? 11:07 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.34.223] has joined #go-nuts 11:08 < EthanG> I think Go is better to many because it's impossible to create a hierarchy as such, but there was something in the blog, one sec 11:08 -!- jmettraux [~jmettraux@PPPbm5391.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 11:09 < EthanG> this is it. http://blog.golang.org/2010/04/json-rpc-tale-of-interfaces.html 11:10 < scyth> so what then, if we have a OO language which has the same restrictions on hierarchies like go, then OO would be acceptable?:) 11:11 < EthanG> I don't entirely understand it, I'll admit, but they say it took 20 minutes to do something which would not only be a lot of work in Java or C++ but would result in more brittle code 11:12 < EthanG> Um, I use a fairly strict definition of OO myself. I include object hierarchy, at least 11:13 < EthanG> perhaps I should not use the term OO & instead mention Java & C++, but then you get things like Gtk+ which are C but are all hierarchal * stuff 11:13 < EthanG> & 11:14 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fNKg5 by [Stephen Ma] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: return the correct error if a header line is too long. 11:15 < scyth> for the example from blog, it wouldn't take much longer to do similar thing in java/c++. It more like "solution for such things is built in Go. You don't have to waste time on thinking much how to solve such ideas" 11:16 -!- tasosos_ [~tasosos@79.103.29.216] has joined #go-nuts 11:16 < EthanG> well ok 11:16 -!- tasosos [~tasosos@79.103.7.89.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:17 < scyth> EthanG, well. what do you think you're dealing with when you write data:=new(StructName), if not pointer to type, eg. object 11:19 < scyth> good thing about go is that it keeps constraints visible (eg, there can be no type inheritance) so it keeps you away from writing bad OO code 11:20 < EthanG> I thought type inheritance was intrinsic to OO 11:22 < EthanG> I've avoided OO altogether, I'll admit, lol. 11:23 < EthanG> well not entirely. Learned a bit about it a long time ago, thinking it was a good thing, got absolutely nowhere with it, and was quite happy to find people who hated it. I'm more of a hardware guy anyway 11:23 < scyth> well.. I think in its definition it is actually, however.. you're not forced to use it... so it's cool that Go takes what devs thought it's really usable from OO approach and disregards the rest 11:23 < EthanG> yeah :) 11:36 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.67.123] has joined #go-nuts 11:37 -!- tasosos_ [~tasosos@79.103.29.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46 -!- artefon [~thiago@187.108.55.12] has joined #go-nuts 11:51 -!- tasosos_ [~tasosos@188.4.70.15.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #go-nuts 12:05 < nsf> C++, lol.. codegen.o compiled with -g, size: 876156; without -g: 32228 12:05 < nsf> :P 12:06 < nsf> the same logic written in C _with_ -g takes 40 kilobytes 12:07 < nsf> viva template bloat! 12:07 < scyth> and in go?:) 12:07 < nsf> I haven't written that in Go yet 12:07 < nsf> but it will be the same as C 12:08 < nsf> a bit bigger 12:08 < nsf> due to runtime reflection 12:08 < nsf> and static linkage 12:08 < nsf> ehm.. or a lot bigger, don't know :) 12:09 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-142gfrf.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:19 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has joined #go-nuts 12:21 -!- artefon [~thiago@187.108.55.12] has quit [Quit: bye] 12:23 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 12:25 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:31 < Soultaker> debug data is not "bloat" imo. 12:31 < Soultaker> (and even if you don't strip it before distribution/installation I doubt it's even loaded under normal use) 12:45 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:46 < uriel> 'OO' has become a totally meaningless term 12:50 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:54 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 13:04 -!- gmilleramilar [~gmiller@184-106-207-119.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05 -!- gmilleramilar [~gmiller@184-106-207-119.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:06 -!- res99 [~anonymous@201.237.130.70] has joined #go-nuts 13:19 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:20 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@188.107.214.200] has quit [Quit: Leave the magic to Houdini] 13:20 -!- nighty^ [~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #go-nuts 13:23 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@188.107.214.200] has joined #go-nuts 13:25 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:28 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-50-200.btc-net.bg] has joined #go-nuts 13:29 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 13:30 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36 < gmilleramilar> Is it just my install, or are gofmt rewrite rules broken with the current revision? when I do 'gofmt -r="8->9"', I get "parsing pattern 8: input:1:1: expected 'EOF', found newline" 13:39 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-axejmltwnnpjudbu] has joined #go-nuts 13:40 -!- melter [~Melter@2001:4930:116:0:21c:c0ff:feef:eaf5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.106.122] has joined #go-nuts 13:40 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 13:41 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 13:49 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 13:49 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-142gfrf.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.244.15.163] has joined #go-nuts 13:56 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 14:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fNXi8 by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/src/cmd/ -- ld: share asmlc 14:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fNXij by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/src/cmd/ -- gc: O(1) string comparison when lengths differ 14:03 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@4705ds1-ris.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #go-nuts 14:03 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 14:15 -!- agl [~agl@207-237-83-222.c3-0.nyw-ubr1.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:16 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v agl] by ChanServ 14:16 -!- nighty^ [~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has left #go-nuts ["Oh well!"] 14:17 <+agl> adg: ping 14:20 -!- jmettraux [~jmettraux@PPPbm5391.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 14:21 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.67.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:26 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.67.123] has joined #go-nuts 14:30 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@4705ds1-ris.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:36 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@4705ds1-ris.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #go-nuts 14:43 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 14:52 -!- asm [nop@asm.dj] has left #go-nuts [] 14:52 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:58 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:58 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00 -!- rejb [~rejb@p5B05AF51.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:00 -!- rejb [~rejb@p5B05AF51.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:00 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 15:05 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:08 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.106.122] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:17 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-ipioggsgxuxuxsel] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 15:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fO3on by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc: ... bug 15:21 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:22 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:22 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has joined #go-nuts 15:31 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fO4Sc by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/ -- build: disable archive/zip for nacl (fix build) 15:44 -!- Tv [~tv@cpe-76-168-227-45.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47 -!- agl [~agl@207-237-83-222.c3-0.nyw-ubr1.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:47 -!- irc [~irc@209.17.191.58] has joined #go-nuts 15:47 -!- agl [~agl@207-237-83-222.c3-0.nyw-ubr1.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:47 -!- Guest40272 [~irc@209.17.191.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47 -!- Xenith [~xenith@2001:470:1:9:8002::1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:47 -!- Xenith [~xenith@2001:470:1:9:8002::1] has joined #go-nuts 15:48 < wjlroe> agl: hello Adam. How goes? 15:59 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 16:02 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 16:06 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@99.20.147.171] has joined #go-nuts 16:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fO7nf by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- runtime: correct iteration of large map values 16:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fO7nn by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: comment pedantry 16:09 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:14 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has joined #go-nuts 16:35 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42 -!- Tv [~tv@gige.bur.digisynd.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:43 < wrtp> anyone used netchan? 16:44 < wrtp> i get an error when trying to use this code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115273 16:45 < wrtp> and i can't see what i'm doing wrong. 16:46 < cbeck> wrtp: compile or runtime? 16:46 < wrtp> runtime 16:47 < anticw> connection failed? 16:47 < wrtp> i get this error from the client: 16:47 < wrtp> (the importer) 16:47 < wrtp> 2010/10/06 17:43:44 netchan import: response error: wrong direction for channel: c 16:47 < wrtp> and this from the exporter: 16:48 < wrtp> 2010/10/06 17:43:44 netchan export: sending error to client: wrong direction for channel: c 16:48 < wrtp> 2010/10/06 17:43:44 netchan export: error decoding client header: gob: type mismatch in decoder: want struct type netchan.header; got non-struct 16:48 < wrtp> the last error looks like it's a bug. 16:48 < wrtp> but the other two are puzzling, because i specified the same direction in each case. 16:48 < cbeck> both your importer and exporter are called with netchan.Send 16:48 < wrtp> which should be ok if, as the documentation says, the Dir is from the client's point of view 16:49 < wrtp> ah, maybe by "client" if means the client of the netchan package, not the client as in "client and server" 16:49 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 16:50 < wrtp> yes, that's it 16:50 < wrtp> i think that documentation is ambiguous... 16:50 < agl> wjlroe: huh, hi there Will :) 16:51 < cbeck> It had been a while since I worked with netchan, think I did the exact same thing 16:51 < wjlroe> agl: I though it was really odd that you weren't in this channel before. but I guess timezones etc... 16:52 < wjlroe> agl: are you using Go for lots of projects atm? 16:57 < agl> wjlroe: this channel was sufficient crazy at launch time that I ended up avoiding it until now 16:57 < wjlroe> oh i see :) 16:58 < agl> wjlroe: and I'm only here now because adg asked me about ChanServ access 16:58 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@99.20.147.171] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 16:58 < agl> wjlroe: I'm afraid that Chromium is pretty much eating me alive^W^W up all my time these days 16:58 < wjlroe> oh ok, still that's a great project 17:01 < cbeck> Quick question: is there any way to recover from a deadlock panic? 17:01 < cbeck> Nothing I've tried has worked, since the panic is thrown in the runtime 17:02 < anticw> agl: to be fair ... chrome has (in my mind) gone from a wtf!?! event to what is clearly the most usable browser out there for me 17:02 < anticw> the initial negativity was mostly because linux support was badly lacking early too 17:05 < nsf> +1, there was a time when chromium's fonts were very ugly on linux, but since it was fixed, it's my browser of choice (bye bye, firefox) 17:11 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12 * MaybeSo_ wonders when someone will come up with the equiv of firebug 17:12 < Soultaker> Ctrl-Shift-C? 17:13 < Soultaker> doesn't do everything Firebug does, though. 17:14 < nsf> i've never used firebug, but yeah, chromium has a nice built-in debugger 17:14 -!- artefon [~thiago@187.17.254.129] has joined #go-nuts 17:14 < Soultaker> it doesn't have network panel like firebug's afaik. 17:15 -!- sahid [~sahid@LNeuilly-152-21-22-10.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:16 -!- artefon [~thiago@187.17.254.129] has left #go-nuts [] 17:17 < MaybeSo> last time I used it it wasn't quite the same 17:18 -!- MaybeSo [~jimr@lions.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:18 -!- MaybeSo [~jimr@lions.Stanford.EDU] has joined #go-nuts 17:19 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-axejmltwnnpjudbu] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.13/20100914122142]] 17:19 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 17:20 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.34.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35 < jnwhiteh> this is a _really_ stupid question, but there is no way to take a pointer to a struct and convert it to a byte array so it can be written out to a file, is there? 17:36 < jnwhiteh> I know there's a few other ways to do it, just trying to see if I can do something like this quick for a proof of concept. 17:38 < KirkMcDonald> jnwhiteh: I suspect you have to use the unsafe package. 17:38 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:38 < jnwhiteh> even with it I can't see how to do it =) 17:41 -!- markcol [~markcol@74.125.59.1] has joined #go-nuts 17:41 < exch> the gob package should do what you need 17:42 -!- wjlroe [~will@212.169.34.114] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:42 < KirkMcDonald> The gob package does indeed provide the most convenient serialization format. It isn't equivalent to casting the pointer to the struct to a byte array, but that's probably a good thing. 17:43 -!- MaksimBurnin [~max@44.188-224-87.telenet.ru] has joined #go-nuts 17:43 < jnwhiteh> well in this case the format I need to output is very precise =) 17:43 < jnwhiteh> so I suspect I'll need to implement my own readers/writers manually 17:43 < jnwhiteh> which is where I was headed. 17:43 < exch> with unsafe it gets a lil messy, but doable: var t T; slice := (*(*[1<<31 - 1]byte)(unsafe.Pointer(&t)))[0:sizeOfStruct] 17:44 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44 < jnwhiteh> exch: thanks, I'll make a note of that 17:44 < exch> note that this will not actually allocate 1<<31-1 bytes. it just a pointer. which makes it extra nice 17:44 < exch> incidentally 1<<31-1 is the largest possible size an array/slice can have 17:45 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 17:45 < jnwhiteh> exch: I actually need a 1024 byte array/slice to write out 17:46 < jnwhiteh> I'm not sure where in your voodoo I could use that =) 17:46 < jnwhiteh> if at all 17:46 < exch> You should take note that reassembling the struct in this same manner will fail miserably if the struct contains a pointer type field. That pointer will obviously not be valid anymore 17:46 < jnwhiteh> aye, that is not a concern 17:47 < exch> unsafe is called 'unsafe' for a reason :) 17:47 < exch> It should probably have been named 'ThereBeMonstersHere' 17:47 < jnwhiteh> =) 17:47 < KirkMcDonald> The unsafe package's documentation does not make it clear that unsafe.Pointer may be converted to any pointer type. 17:48 < jnwhiteh> thanks for the help guys, I'm off for the day! 17:48 < KirkMcDonald> It says that any pointer type may be converted to unsafe.Pointer. 17:48 < KirkMcDonald> But it doesn't explicitly spell out that the reverse is also possible. 17:49 < exch> I think the less is said about unsafe in the docs, the better :) 17:50 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: the spec says "and vice versa". 17:50 < KirkMcDonald> iant: True. But the docs for the unsafe package do not. 17:50 <+iant> ah 17:51 <+iant> should be fixed 17:58 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 17:59 < wrtp> jnwhiteh: you could use enconding/binary 17:59 < wrtp> s/enconding/encoding/ 17:59 -!- acts_as [~acts_as@208.236.105.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00 -!- acts_as [~acts_as@208.236.105.27] has joined #go-nuts 18:00 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@4705ds1-ris.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05 -!- tasosos_ [~tasosos@188.4.70.15.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:07 -!- artefon [~thiago@187.17.254.129] has joined #go-nuts 18:08 -!- scyth [~scyth@zeljko.eunet.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:09 -!- artefon [~thiago@187.17.254.129] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23 -!- tasosos_ [~tasosos@188.4.70.15.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #go-nuts 18:25 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 19:02 < Gertm> I don't get unidirectional channels. If you make a channel you can only send on, who's going to read those messages then? 19:03 < wrtp> Gertm: you don't make a channel you can only send on. 19:03 < wrtp> you make a bi-directional channel, and then assign it to a unidirectional channel 19:03 < Gertm> wrtp: ok. But they're in the docs, I wanna know what their use is. 19:04 < Gertm> wrtp: can you show me an example? 19:04 < wrtp> func Values() <-chan int {c := make(chan int); go func() {c <- 99; close(c)}(); return c} 19:05 < wrtp> the channel returned from Values can only be read 19:05 < wrtp> but the channel c inside Values can be read and written 19:05 < wrtp> the channel returned from Values is the read-only side of c. 19:05 < Gertm> ah! 19:06 < Gertm> yeah, that makes sense. Ok thanks! 19:06 < wrtp> god 19:06 < wrtp> oops 19:06 < wrtp> good 19:06 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com] has quit [Quit: plainhao] 19:06 < Gertm> so you don't make unidir channels, you return 1 direction of a bidir chan 19:06 < wrtp> yup 19:07 < Gertm> making sure whoever is on the other side can't abuse it 19:07 < wrtp> yup 19:07 -!- Zoopee [alsbergt@zoopee.org] has quit [Quit: Ejected] 19:07 -!- Zoopee [alsbergt@zoopee.org] has joined #go-nuts 19:08 < Gertm> the example you gave only sends 1 value, but the receiver of the <-chan will read just that 1, then it gets closed? 19:08 < Gertm> (just making sure I get everything here) 19:08 < wrtp> yes 19:08 < wrtp> the body of that goroutine might send any number of values on that channel. 19:09 -!- htoothrot [~mux@71-8-117-228.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09 -!- htoothrot [~mux@71-8-117-228.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:10 < wrtp> here's another example: func Reader(c <-chan int) {for x := range c {fmt.Println(x)}}; func Writer(c chan<- int) { for i := 0; i < 999; i++ {c <- i}}; func Connect() {c := make(chan int); go Reader(c); go Writer(c)} 19:10 < wrtp> Connect() 19:12 < Gertm> so the reader and writer funcs only pick up that 1 side of the channel 19:12 < wrtp> yes 19:12 < Gertm> pretty cool how that works 19:12 < wrtp> it works well 19:13 < wrtp> it's all in the type system - the underlying runtime value is exactly the same regardless of the directionality of the channel 19:13 < Gertm> but the compiler will stop you if you try to do the wrong operation on those unidir chans, right? 19:14 < wrtp> yes 19:15 < wrtp> and the type system won't let you convert back from a unidir chan to a bidir chan 19:16 < Gertm> ok, I'll try this in some code now, thanks for your help! 19:17 < wrtp> np 19:32 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:33 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has joined #go-nuts 19:34 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has joined #go-nuts 19:35 -!- jacekm [jacekm@parrot.dobremiasto.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:36 -!- jacekm [jacekm@parrot.dobremiasto.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:36 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:37 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has joined #go-nuts 19:41 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has joined #go-nuts 19:52 < ptrb> ugh, ok, clearly I'm not understanding the xml package 19:53 < ptrb> but if the xml is "<foo><bar><a>hello</a><b>123</b></bar></foo>" 19:53 < ptrb> what does the go struct hierarchy look like? 19:54 < MaybeSo> do you mean after using the reflection converter? 19:54 < exch> type Foo struct { Bar struct{ A string; B int } } 19:54 < ptrb> I mean how do I build my structs to model that data 19:54 < ptrb> right, that's what I thought :| 19:54 < exch> mind the capital field names. They have to be public fields 19:54 < ptrb> and then xml.Unmarshal(str, &Foo{}) right? 19:55 < exch> var f Foo; xml.Unmarshal(data, &f) 19:55 < ptrb> right. 19:55 < ptrb> Will <foobar> match 'type Foobar' as well as 'type FooBar'? 19:56 < exch> good question. I haven't tried that 19:57 < ptrb> alright, and if it's <foo><bar>...</bar><bar>...</bar>...</foo> 19:57 < ptrb> i guess it matches on the variable name rather than the typedef 19:57 < ptrb> *type name 19:57 < exch> type Foo struct{ Bar []MyBar } 19:57 < exch> yes 19:59 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00 -!- zippity [5ab4c407@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.180.196.7] has joined #go-nuts 20:00 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-23-104.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 20:00 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00 < ptrb> and it does partial matching, right... I don't have to specify the whole XML structure 20:01 < exch> You should be able to pass in subsets of the xml. As long as it's a valid piece of xml. So all opening tags must have matching closing tags 20:02 < ptrb> yeah. urgh. wish I could debug this :| 20:08 -!- markcol [~markcol@74.125.59.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:22 -!- zippity [5ab4c407@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.180.196.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:23 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has joined #go-nuts 20:25 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:32 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.34.223] has joined #go-nuts 20:37 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-30-121.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 20:40 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 20:45 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 20:48 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 20:51 -!- tasosos_ [~tasosos@188.4.70.15.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:01 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 21:02 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.231] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:04 < gmilleramilar> Is it just my install, or are gofmt rewrite rules broken with the current revision? when I do 'gofmt -r="8->9"', I get "parsing pattern 8: input:1:1: expected 'EOF', found newline" 21:07 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:10 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:10 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has joined #go-nuts 21:12 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:14 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15 < Soultaker> gmilleramilar: I updated just to check, and I think you're right. 21:16 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-141-107-118.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 21:18 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:18 < gmilleramilar> Soultaker: same result? 21:18 < Soultaker> yes. and previously it worked. 21:19 < gmilleramilar> ok, I'll file it. 21:20 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:23 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:29 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:30 -!- mikeg [~michael@ip68-110-226-15.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31 -!- mikeg [~michael@ip68-110-226-15.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:35 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:38 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@188.107.214.200] has quit [Quit: Leave the magic to Houdini] 21:38 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:39 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:40 < gmilleramilar> Soultaker: if you're interested: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=1170 21:43 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:45 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:47 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.34.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:50 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:53 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-30-121.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:53 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fOAxM by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- playground.html: filesystem is not a word. 22:07 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:14 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fOBJ0 by [Russ Cox] in go/lib/codereview/ -- codereview: disallow submit of *.[chys] files indented with spaces 22:22 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26 -!- MaksimBurnin [~max@44.188-224-87.telenet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:35 -!- belkiss [~belkiss@drn13-1-78-235-168-105.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:35 -!- belkiss [~belkiss@drn13-1-78-235-168-105.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-23-104.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.67.123] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 23:01 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:19 -!- jmettraux [~jmettraux@211.19.55.177] has joined #go-nuts 23:25 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-ipioggsgxuxuxsel] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:33 -!- thomas_b_ [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 23:33 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-lvhbyrystqydywgr] has joined #go-nuts 23:33 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 23:33 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33 -!- dacc [~Adium@D-128-95-10-232.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #go-nuts 23:34 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:34 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-177-190.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 23:34 -!- iant1 [~iant@67.218.105.113] has joined #go-nuts 23:38 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-lvhbyrystqydywgr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:39 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:47 -!- msolo [~msolo@nat/google/x-xaxtujlmctboepps] has joined #go-nuts 23:52 -!- jcao219 [~jcao219@pool-173-74-61-111.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:58 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-124-135-199.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] --- Log closed Thu Oct 07 00:00:09 2010