--- Log opened Wed Jun 30 00:00:12 2010
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00:04 < travisbrady> KirkMcDonald: ok thank you.  I didn't see it in the
docs but thought I'd ask.  Might be a fun exercise for someone so inclined.
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00:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9ni2 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/runtime/ --
runtime: fix scheduling bug - world wasn't stopping
00:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9nic by [Kirklin McDonald] in go/src/pkg/net/
-- net: add support for DNS SRV requests.
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02:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9qhk by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/ld/ -- ld:
fix implementation of -u
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03:17 < nsf> :(((
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03:34 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9u1r by [Alex Brainman] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- net: initial attempt to implement windows version
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04:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9xqi by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ --
Contributors: add Kirklin McDonald (a Google employee)
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05:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9zoR by [Alex Brainman] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- time: implement timezones for windows
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06:11 < nf> KirkMcDonald: there is a red black tree implementation somewhere
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06:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9CJq by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/codewalk/
-- doc/codewalk: Share Memory By Communicating
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07:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9Geg by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/
-- godoc: canonicalize codewalk paths
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09:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d9JpM by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/src/pkg/http/
-- http: client_test nil pointer fix
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17:37 < skelterjohn> is there a way to edit your .hgrc to have it know about
multiple push sites?
17:37 < bartbes> ehm..  yeah
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17:38 < bartbes> I guess you see [paths] and default = <path> under
it?
17:39 < skelterjohn> no, i have a [ui] and [auth] section
17:39 < bartbes> well, normally you add the paths to your project
17:39 < skelterjohn> what i want to do is to have it remember the password
for different sites
17:39 < bartbes> or do you mean multiple ones for auth?
17:39 < bartbes> ah
17:39 < skelterjohn> and they're all googlecode sites
17:39 < skelterjohn> with the same pw, if that makes a differences
17:39 < skelterjohn> difference
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17:40 < bartbes> well, of course it's possible
17:40 < skelterjohn> :)
17:40 < bartbes> currently it's like <name>.prefix = <url>
17:40 < bartbes> right?
17:40 < skelterjohn> yes
17:40 < bartbes> well, if you do the same
17:40 < bartbes> but with a different name
17:40 < skelterjohn> duh
17:40 < skelterjohn> thanks heh
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17:41 < cw> iant: does gccgo have complex support yet?
17:42 <+iant> yes
17:42 < cw> hmm...  interesting...  so i assume potentially some of the
generated code could be quite good then
17:42 < cw> (6g isn't so great)
17:42 <+iant> it should be pretty good; the Fortran people have made sure
that gcc handles complex numbers well
17:43 < cw> really?  fortran is one place i see gcc get trashed horribly
compared to commercial compilers
17:43 <+iant> that is loop optimizations, not code generation
17:44 <+iant> actually with the new Graphite loop optimizations gcc is
looking better
17:44 <+iant> but, yes, other Fortran compilers are still ahead
17:44 <+iant> gcc tends to be optimized toward C/C++
17:44 <+iant> Fortran permits much looser assumptions about loops
17:44 <+iant> that is not yet reflected well in gcc's middle-end
17:47 < cw> yeah, c/c++ the gap between gcc & icc isn't so great
17:47 < cw> sometimes gcc wins
17:47 < cw> (bugs aside)
17:50 < skelterjohn> what is icc?
17:50 < Tonnerre> Intel C Compiler
17:52 < cw> iant: w/o gold things will work but i won't get discontig stack
supprt right?
17:52 <+iant> right
17:52 <+iant> which will significantly reduce the number of goroutines you
can create
17:53 < cw> why?
17:53 <+iant> because each goroutine will be created with a much larger
stack
17:53 <+iant> and you will run out of memory
17:53 < cw> so it uses more memory
17:53 <+iant> yes
17:53 <+iant> on a 32-bit system you will really run out of memory
17:53 <+iant> on a 64-bit system you will just start thrashing earlier
17:54 < cw> how much are we talking about here though?  i mean, i figure
each gorouting takes at most 32K
17:54 < cw> 8K kernel stack, 8K+ user stack + delta
17:54 <+iant> the default user stack for a thread is larger than that
17:55 < cw> well...  even if it's 2MB and never touched that should be ok
17:55 <+iant> it does run out of virtual memory on 32-bit systems on some of
the test cases
17:55 <+iant> but, yeah, if it's never touched it may not matter too much on
a 64-bit system
17:56 < cw> i think some of those create 100K+ goroutines though
17:56 <+iant> yep
17:56 < cw> 64-bit systems, 12GB normally, some 96GB or more
17:56 < cw> i'm really having a hard time thinking i should care deeply
about this right now
17:56 <+iant> you probably shouldn't
17:56 < nsf> yeah, just buy more memory, it's cheap, few terabytes should be
enough
17:56 < nsf> )
17:57 <+iant> ha
17:57 < cw> at this stage i just want to compare perf...  ill care more
later on, by which time i can use gold nad yuo'll have add a GC and other goodies
17:57 < cw> i worked at a place we sold a machine with 8TB of ram a few
years ago :-)
17:57 < nsf> :P
17:58 < cw> that's 8TB all mapped accessible at once...  to a signle given
process if need be, not loose cluster
17:59 < nsf> cool, 25 times more ram memory that HDD space on my machine :)
17:59 * cw waits for a long time for gcc co ....  would the world end if gcc ever
got smaller?
17:59 <+iant> the time it takes gcc to build is not a pain point for most
users
17:59 < nsf> cw: they have permitted C++ usage recently
17:59 < nsf> so it will take it longer in future :)
17:59 <+iant> since most people get it prebuilt
18:00 <+iant> yes, it will keep getting larger
18:00 <+iant> alas
18:00 < cw> it might be network bw, i forgot -z
18:02 < cw> iant: when in highschool about a zillion years ago i asked a
friend to get me the gcc source code so i could port it to the 68k machine i had
then
18:02 < cw> iant: it was a realy pain getting a stack of floppies and
rearranging things to try and build it
18:02 <+iant> ouch, I'll bet
18:03 <+iant> I got my first copy of the gcc sources when somebody at DEC
gave me a machine they weren't using any more
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18:04 < cw> i think this was gcc 1.1x ...  late 80s
18:04 < cw> no g++ so it was low MBs it think
18:04 < nsf> and it was written in pascal isn't it?
18:04 < nsf> ))
18:04 <+iant> the first version I got was 1.34
18:05 < cw> it's weird to think how old some of this code is compared to my
kids even
18:06 <+iant> your parents felt the same way about something else
18:06 < cw> yeah, im sure they do/did
18:06 < cw> iant: do i have to build c as well?
18:07 <+iant> yes
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18:07 <+iant> you can do --enable-languages=c,go --disable-bootstrap when
you run configure
18:07 < cw> yeah, doing that
18:07 <+iant> Some of libgo is written in C and will be compiled by the C
compiler
18:07 <+iant> if you don't build C the build system will get confused
18:07 < cw> right....  but i have gcc already albeit it an older one
18:07 < cw> ok
18:08 < cw> gpm is required now ...  wonderful, who can i kick for that
18:08 <+iant> Kaveh Ghazi for the Fortran team
18:08 <+iant> mainline gcc requires mpc too, although that is not on the
gccgo branch yet
18:09 <+iant> you will also need mpfr
18:09 <+iant> current distros have them available
18:09 < cw> i see that ...  that also blows
18:09 <+iant> I argued against it, but I lost
18:10 < cw> and i need recent gmp ...  which whilst not hard to deal with is
just annoying and makes all this tedious
18:10 <+iant> yeah
18:10 < cw> ie.  debian stable is useless
18:10 <+iant> Ubuntu Lucid and Fedora 13 have what is needed
18:10 <+iant> I'm not a Debian user
18:11 <+iant> at least not directly
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18:11 < cw> yeah, debian stable once again is showing it's stoneage
procrastination lineage
18:11 < cw> must support every weird ass platform or else can't make a
release ever on time
18:17 * exch hugs his Arch linux
18:17 < exch> I've really tried to like ubuntu and debian, but it's just not
working for me
18:18 < KirkMcDonald> My headless Linux machine at home runs Gentoo.
18:19 < KirkMcDonald> Just because I haven't had portage choke and die in
quite a long time.
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18:27 < skelterjohn> uriel: I'd like it if you added gostat to the list of
pure go libs on your site - http://code.google.com/p/gostat/
18:28 < skelterjohn> it's the same kind of stuff as the rand package, but
provides some extra interesting distributions
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18:54 < fenicks> hello
18:54 < skelterjohn> hi
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20:03 < cw> iant: how often is gccgo updated?  svn log makes me thing 2-3
times a week
20:04 <+iant> it varies quite a bit
20:04 <+iant> sometimes there are a burst of changes
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20:19 < skelterjohn> Is there a decent implementation of sets that take an
interface type?
20:19 < skelterjohn> the interface can provide less(), equals(), or hash(),
doesn't matter to me
20:20 < skelterjohn> tried looking at http://github.com/pwil3058/gosets but
it seems to only work for integer sets, at the moment
20:20 < KirkMcDonald> Equals() and Hash() would be sufficient, I'd think.
20:21 < KirkMcDonald> Alternatively, if you have some way to unamibiguously
encode the object into a string, you can use a map.
20:21 < KirkMcDonald> Which probably does not perform well, and is certainly
quick and dirty, but it'd work with a minimal amount of code.]
20:21 < skelterjohn> Certainly equals/hash are sufficient, but it depends on
how the set is implemented
20:21 < skelterjohn> yeah - performance is somewhat important
20:22 < skelterjohn> probably a tree implementation using less/equals would
be most appropriate for what i have
20:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dapqi by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/src/pkg/io/
-- io: Avoid race condition in pipe.
20:23 < skelterjohn> though i think i could do an efficient hash, now that i
think about it
20:23 < KirkMcDonald> Tree's going to be O(log n), yes?  Whereas a good hash
is going to approach O(1).
20:23 < skelterjohn> just wondering if someone had put something together
for it
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20:23 < skelterjohn> KirkMcDonald: sure, but that only is useful if the hash
can be computed quickly
20:23 < skelterjohn> my sets will not be huge
20:23 < KirkMcDonald> Sure.
20:23 < skelterjohn> but i will have many of them
20:24 < skelterjohn> i'm doing some monte-carlo tree search code
20:24 < KirkMcDonald> Is memory usage a concern?
20:24 < skelterjohn> yes-ish
20:24 < skelterjohn> secondary to speed
20:25 < skelterjohn> not in a rush, so i could write it myself, if it comes
down to it
20:25 < skelterjohn> but it feels like the kind of thing that someone would
have done, by now
20:25 < skelterjohn> but i didn't see anything on the cat-v site
20:26 < KirkMcDonald> Someone was asking about a red-black tree in here
earlier...
20:26 < KirkMcDonald> I don't think an implementation was linked to, though.
20:26 < skelterjohn> if i did it myself it would be a hash/LL
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20:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/darbs by [Peter Mundy] in 3 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- io/ioutil.TempFile for Windows
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21:21 * Project_2501 quits o.o
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21:38 < cw> iant: wrt to gccgo stopping all threads ...  there is already a
hook for that in the runtime for map accesses
21:38 < cw> iant: i know it's suboptimal but it might work
21:38 < cw> iant: the other option is ptrace (i assume)
21:38 <+iant> I can send them all a signal
21:39 < cw> does that work?  i once tried to test it and it seemed not
21:40 <+iant> it requires additional work, but I don't see why it wouldn't
work
21:40 < cw> i recorded the tids using a custom syscall wrapper once ...  and
send all threads STOP
21:40 < cw> and some kept on whacking away at the counters (the test)
21:40 <+iant> did you use kill or tgkill?
21:41 < cw> possibly kill, i know about tgkill and made a mental note to
check the code it was using that and retest
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21:42 < cw> i have a meeting at 3pm, so ill retest it then to avoid having
to listen :)
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21:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dauZ1 by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: amd64 versions of exp and fabs
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21:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dauZb by [Ivan Krasin] in go/src/pkg/syscall/
-- syscall: add socketpair
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22:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/daw1u by [Adam Langley] in
go/src/pkg/crypto/x509/ -- x509: support non-self-signed certs.
22:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/daw1w by [Adam Langley] in
go/src/pkg/crypto/x509/ -- x509: fix English.
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23:13 < cw> iant: 'export data' for .gox files means what specifically?
23:15 < cw> iant: also, why are strings implemented different to gc?  there
a string has {base,len} not {len,data[]}
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23:53 <+iant> cw: the export data in a .gox file is the exported names of
package with their types and methods
23:53 <+iant> cw: strings used to be implemented differently, but now they
are implemented the same
23:53 <+iant> I probably need to update the doc
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23:57 < cw> iant: the preamble code for handling discontig stacks looks
quite large compared to 6g
23:57 <+iant> for a function with a small stack frame, it's just a compare
and jump
23:58 <+iant> if you compile with optimization the rest of the code is moved
out of line so it doesn't matter much
--- Log closed Thu Jul 01 00:00:12 2010